The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread

helimachoptor

A footballing life with Steve McNair is on tonight on SS2, before my time but the most successful Titans QB ever..

Dohnny Jepp

helimachoptor wrote: »

A footballing life with Steve McNair is on tonight on SS2, before my time but the most successful Titans QB ever..

I'm fortunate enough that he was during my time. He was a really talented QB, and was just so much fun to watch. Dual threat before it was popular :P

helimachoptor

Just watched it this morning, interesting view into his life. Getting killed by your mistress.. Man what a way to go

poldebruin

helimachoptor wrote: »

Just watched it this morning, interesting view into his life. Getting killed by your mistress.. Man what a way to go

Indeed, shot in the head while sleeping on the couch - then twice in the chest, and again in the head. His mistress lay beside him on the couch and then shot herself.....grim.

I'm enjoying watching the series - even the ones I think I'll be less interested in have turned out to be good. Looking forward to the one about the Forward Pass next week (at least in the US)

Son Of A Vidic

As brutal as McNair's death was, at least the poor guy was probably in the middle of a nice dream when he died.

Billy86

Why NFL media coverage is such a joke at times

"Most would agree that the quarterback is the most important player on the field (the possible exception being a kicker in OT). Where would the Patriots be without Tom Brady? Well, the answer is nowhere and if the team doesn't clean up its pass protection against the Panthers this weekend he could be in trouble."

Brady's one of the best ever don't get me wrong, but come on for f*** sake! He's picked it up the last few weeks, but has been pretty brutal for much of the season. Yes I know he has been throwing to nobodies a good deal, but put a good 8-10 other QBs in his place (this year, not for his career of course) and the Patriots are likely exactly where they are, maybe even better. Wasn't his QBR in the low/mid 70s before the Steelers game only two weeks back? It's like that never happened! But hey, I guess once you hit that top level you become infallible. :rolleyes:

Realt Dearg Sec

Billy86 wrote: »

Why NFL media coverage is such a joke at times

"Most would agree that the quarterback is the most important player on the field (the possible exception being a kicker in OT). Where would the Patriots be without Tom Brady? Well, the answer is nowhere and if the team doesn't clean up its pass protection against the Panthers this weekend he could be in trouble."

Brady's one of the best ever don't get me wrong, but come on for f*** sake! He's picked it up the last few weeks, but has been pretty brutal for much of the season. Yes I know he has been throwing to nobodies a good deal, but put a good 8-10 other QBs in his place (this year, not for his career of course) and the Patriots are likely exactly where they are, maybe even better. Wasn't his QBR in the low/mid 70s before the Steelers game only two weeks back? It's like that never happened! But hey, I guess once you hit that top level you become infallible. :rolleyes:

I have a feeling packers fans might disagree with you on this.

Son Of A Vidic

Billy86 wrote: »

Why NFL media coverage is such a joke at times
"Most would agree that the quarterback is the most important player on the field (the possible exception being a kicker in OT). Where would the Patriots be without Tom Brady?

Man, if some Brady praise irks you, you need to watch some more of the NFL Network. I watched the NFL Network on Friday evening/night and all day yesterday. All I was getting was "Peyton Manning this", "Peyton Manning that". According to the NFL Network, Manning is playing the Chiefs by himself, he apparently has no team. It's only him versus the Chiefs. I'm a great admirer of Manning, because like Brady, he has had a great career and has an impressive body of work that speaks for itself. And Manning like Brady, will always credit the team before himself. I like most fans, am well able to see pass the usual NFL Network bullshít spin and hype. You should probably do the same yourself.

RE: NFL bullshít, Kapernick was their golden boy last season, now they're falling over themselves pointing out how bad his passing game it, how bad the passing offense is this season. But that's the NFL and the media for you - muppets. He's only a kid, of course losing his favourite toy in Crabtree affected him. Then throw in Davies being in and out with injuries and of course his pass game will be negatively impacted.

Billy86 wrote: »

Yes I know he has been throwing to nobodies a good deal

A good deal? Wrong, he’s been doing it all season. The Steelers game was the first game where we had our originally intended offense on the field for 2013. No coincidence then that we for once looked like the top offense that we were in 2012.

Billy86 wrote: »

put a good 8-10 other QBs in his place (this year, not for his career of course) and the Patriots are likely exactly where they are, maybe even better.

8 -10? Sorry to be so blunt here but that's nothing but pointless and silly speculation. Let’s look at the facts here, between players gone and the likes of Gronk being injured. The season started with 94% of all receptions/passes caught from 2012 season wiped out. He started the season, with no Wes Welker, Aoron Hernandez, Danny Woodhead, Brandon Lloyd, Rob Gronkowski and then loses Shane Vereen .

The guy who got most reps during the preseason was Vereen and he had only 8 receptions from 2012. A lot of prep went into him being key in 2013. He then ends up breaking his wrist on his very first snap of the season. The amount of turnover Brady has had to deal with this season, is unprecedented in NFL history. No QB has ever entered a new season with his entire pass offense virtually wiped out.

He lined up with a crew of unproven inexperience rookies. Big teething problems were expected. So no surprise to see that our WR’s have the highest drop rate in the league. And you think someone other QB could do better? Give me a break. There’s only 3 QB’s I would even consider –Manning, Rodgers and Brees. But I can’t say if they’d do better or worse, because that would be only silly speculation on my part.

Billy86 wrote: »

He's picked it up the last few weeks

No he hasn’t, the Steelers game was the only game this season where the Pats offense looked like anything like the lethal Pats offense of old. But that’s just one game, the jury is still out whether the offense has finally clicked or not. It will take a few more of those performances to convince us fans.

Billy86 wrote: »

Wasn't his QBR in the low/mid 70s before the


Steelers game only two weeks back? :rolleyes:

Do you think Pats fans give a crap about a QBR rating for a proven great like Brady? Our offense was poor against the Saints. But we saw a classic Brady game winning drive to win the game with 5 seconds left. Bad stats but super clutch when it counted, that’s what really matters. Sometimes you got to take QBR ratings with a pinch of salt. Becaseu it often doesn't tell you the whole story.

Go to the team thread before the season even started and you’ll see a big drop off from his normally elite numbers was fully expected for 2013 by fans. And why was it expected? Well it was because after losing his entire offense, we didn't expect much from a bunch of rookies. At the start of the season I said in the Pats thread, that all I wanted to see was good progress from our rookies and a chemistry built between them and Brady as the year progressed. 2014 was the year I expected a return to normal service.

The story this year has been our defense, it has punched above its weight all season. The defense has won us games when our green offensive has naturally struggled and stuttered. And doing so with so many defensive starters out injured, is what has impressed us fans. So instead of the usual offensive steamroller, they have battled it out in the trenches this season and won some tough games.

Brady himself has praised our defensive all season. He has given them credit for all the victories. Always his own worst critic, personally I wish he would say it like it is. Like when Edelman, a 5 year veteran was dropping more balls than knickers in a whore house. Rookies you can forgive for doing that but not a vet. Anyway, there is a Pats thread for all of this and you're more than welcome to take it over there. Apologies for the long post lads, in what is not a team thread.

Billy86

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

I have a feeling packers fans might disagree with you on this.

Ha, I AM a Packers fan.

The difference is that the last three years Rodgers has had a very poor running game (until this season) and awful defense (thanks, Capers!) which has not been the case at all for NE this season.

Billy86

Corvus:

You seem to have missed my point - QBR doesn't tell everything, but then again neither do game winning drives, otherwise Tebow is a really good QB.

I completely agree on the NFL media hype bit also, so no idea why you are suggesting I should "see past it" when that was the exact point of my initial post? The reason Manning is getting all that hype this year mind is because he is on pace to shatter a lot of records -- but it IS still an upgraded version of a team that got the the divisional round with Tim Tebow so I get what you mean completel). That said they are more than happy to talk about Brady non-stop when he is doing well (they being the wider media - NFL Network really has gone down the toilet), so why not keep focus on him when he is struggling?

He has also had a top 10 rushing game in both yards per carry and per game and a top six defense in points allowed giving up less than 20 per game (the five ahead of NE are all 6-3 or 7-2, quarterbacked by Brees, Wilson, Newton, Alex Smith and Kaepernick).

It's not unprecedented by the way - Rivers in 2010 was missing over 88% of his 2009 targets for much of the 2010 season (and all of his WRs/TEs), I think they went through 9 or 10 receivers that year. Yet he had a season on par with more or less anyone else in the league.

I'm not saying there is no excuse for Brady's drop off given the circumstances - it makes sense that there might have been some (though not to the extent we have seen at times), what I am saying is that there is no excuse for the media to pretend that never happened.

Not sure what you mean by saying I should be taking it up in the Patriots thread... what's the point of having this thread at all for then? My initial post was primarily to do with the fickle nature of the media covering the NFL. If I bring that up there, they'll tell me to bring it here.

My point is that Brady has had a sub par season, which he has. That the media has largely ignored this as they don't want to damage his (and in turn, their) brand, which they have. And that they then have the gall to come out and make a statement like saying they would be "nowhere" without him this year, despite their quality defensive play and very solid running game. Those are the two factors that New England would be nowhere without this year.

The exact same would happen for Manning and at this point likely Rodgers, and the exact same happens if Brees gets a bit interception happy. We even see it with nonsense like "Matty Ice" being wildly overrated when his team wins yet getting a free pass this season. Or with Romo getting slated by some when he throw 500+ yards, 5 TDs and loses, yet getting no recognition for engineering comeback wins (which he does a lot), instead being labelled a perennial choker. It goes on for a number of QBs in the league and it makes no sense to me.

It's kind of like in the Premiership they have a huge bias to certain (usually English) players - like the number of times "I feel sorry for Joe Hart, he' still a great goalkeeper" compared to foreign guys like De Gea getting leapt on for sneezing (that's just one example, there's tonnes of them). But unlike in football, I just can't figure out how they seem to 'pick' their favourites and run with them in the NFL... if that comparison makes sense?

Realt Dearg Sec

Billy86 wrote: »

Ha, I AM a Packers fan.

The difference is that the last three years Rodgers has had a very poor running game (until this season) and awful defense (thanks, Capers!) which has not been the case at all for NE this season.

Fair enough but without an elite QB I thinking patriots would be in Minnesota or Jacksonville territory on offense by now. A bit like what's happening to the pack. Compared to the bears who lost only an ok QB but the receiver corps is, on balance, probably close to the best in the league.

Billy86

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Fair enough but without an elite QB I thinking patriots would be in Minnesota or Jacksonville territory on offense by now. A bit like what's happening to the pack. Compared to the bears who lost only an ok QB but the receiver corps is, on balance, probably close to the best in the league.

I do get what you mean and obviously the targets do make a noticeable difference, but to be fair, we had to make the replacements in game with no preparation time - first for Wallace (who had not played a down in over two years), then for Tolzien (who had never played a down at all and was on the practice squad only 7 days earlier) whereas McCown had time to prepare (two weeks for the GB game at that). We might get a better idea today off Tolzien/Flynn.

It's why I said 8-10 QBs and not any QB!

Son Of A Vidic

Billy86 wrote: »

Corvus: You seem to have missed my point - QBR doesn't tell everything, but then again neither do game winning drives, otherwise Tebow is a really good QB.

QBR rating wasn't the reason I replied to your post. You suggested that 8-10 QB's could do probably do better job than Brady this season. It was a comment which I found to be totally nonsensical and silly speculation imo.

Billy86 wrote: »

He has also had a top 10 rushing game in both yards per carry and per game and a top six defense in points allowed giving up less than 20 per game (the five ahead of NE are all 6-3 or 7-2, quarterbacked by Brees, Wilson, Newton, Alex Smith and Kaepernick).

My point earlier was only referring to Kapernicks passing game and the NFL networks criticism of it. A typical from golden boy to bust type media mentality. I was merely highlighting the fickleness of the media and how quickly the pendulum can swing against you.

Billy86 wrote: »

It's not unprecedented by the way - Rivers in 2010 was missing over 88% of his 2009 targets for much of the 2010 season (and all of his WRs/TEs), I think they went through 9 or 10 receivers that year. Yet he had a season on par with more or less anyone else in the league.

Aside from LaDainian Tomlinson going to the Jets in 2010, there was no other significant changes to their WR corp. Rivers still had Sproules & Gates. Brady lost an entire WR corp and started the season with nobody having caught a single pass from him in 2012 being present on the field. Unprecedented and a problem Rivers never had to face.

[URL="http://nfl.si.com/2013/09/07/with-rob-gronkowski-out-against-the-bills-tom-brady-faces-a-historic-receiver-
turnover/"]http://nfl.si.com/2013/09/07/with-rob-gronkowski-out-against-the-bills-tom-brady-faces-a-historic-receiver-turnover/[/URL]

http://nfl.si.com/2013/09/07/with-rob-gronkowski-out-against-the-bills-tom-brady-faces-a-historic-receiver-turnover/

Those sample articles were written before things even got worse.

Billy86 wrote: »

I'm not saying there is no excuse for Brady's drop off given the circumstances - it makes sense that there might have been some (though not to the extent we have seen at times), what I am saying is that there is no excuse for the media to pretend that never happened.

Not to the extent? That’s what I just can’t get. How could any QB not be significantly affected, when they start a season where none of his targets have ever caught a pass from him before. Most Pats fans with a grounding in reality, expected the strong possibility that this would not be a pretty year statistically speaking for Brady. Now what I think know one predicted, was how well the defense has performed.

Billy86 wrote: »

And that they then have the gall to come out and make a statement like saying they would be "nowhere" without him this year, despite their quality defensive play and very solid running game. Those are the two factors that New England would be nowhere without this year.

And again, didn't I point also out that Brady has consistently praised and thanked the defense all season for the wins. Now if you can see past the media BS like you said you can, why then are you getting so vexed by their BS? I'm telling you as a life long fanatically fan that problems were expected and they happened. Have the offensive struggles surprised me? No. Have they frustrated me? Fúck ya. Maybe you should stop listening to sugar coating media BS and maybe digest the opinion of a fan like me. It might just save you getting vexed

Billy86 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by saying I should be taking it up in the Patriots thread.

Why? Because of this. You made it a team issue by mentioning only one player, hence the reason I suggested you should post in the Pats thread. Now if you mentioned several players from several different teams, then obviously your post wouldn't have been interpreted as a team specific issue.

Billy86 wrote: »

what's the point of having this thread at all for then? My initial post was primarily to do with the fickle nature of the media covering the NFL. If I bring that up there, they'll tell me to bring it here.

But you specifically mentioned one guy who happens to be the QB of my team. So of course I am going to respond and point out some team facts to you ect. So looking back on that post, my interpretation was a natural one to make. Perhaps if you quoted several examples, I would have interpreted your post differently. That’s why I pointed out Manning to you earlier. It has been non-stop the last two days and I just found it funny that you appear to have only taken issue with some silly comment they made about Brady.

Billy86

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

QBR rating wasn't the reason I replied to your post. You suggested that 8-10 QB's could do probably do better job than Brady this season. It was a comment which I found to be totally nonsensical and silly speculation imo.

I may have exaggerated, but 8-10 QBs could be plugged in and they would still have a similar record of 7-2 or 6-3.

My point earlier was only referring to Kapernicks passing game and the NFL networks criticism of it. A typical from golden boy to bust type media mentality. I was merely highlighting the fickleness of the media and how quickly the pendulum can swing against you.

Completely agree - RGIII is another example. They were so in love with him last year, yet many are overlooking the numerous issues he has in his way this season, not least playing injured.

Aside from LaDainian Tomlinson going to the Jets in 2010, there was no other significant changes to their WR corp. Rivers still had Sproules & Gates. Brady lost an entire WR corp and started the season with nobody having caught a single pass from him in 2012 being present on the field. Unprecedented and a problem Rivers never had to face.

- Gates missed weeks 9, 11, 15, 16 and 17 (playing injured in 12, 13 & 14)
- Vincent Jackson missed up to week 12
- Malcolm Floyd missed weeks 7, 8, 9, 15 & 16
- Legedu Nanee missed weeks 6-12 and 14
- Buster Davis went out for the season in week 7, and his career was effectively over from then on.
- Kasim Osgood went to the Jaguars
- LT went to the Jets
- Michael Bennett went to the Raiders
- Demetrius Byrd was released before the season began
- Jacob Hester stayed healthy all year but was a ST guy (9 catches in 2009, 22 in 2010)
- FB Tolbert and RB Sproles (who Turner completely underused) were the only two who stayed healthy.
***Week 10 was the bye week.

A noticeable difference is that while Brady had the preseason to work with some of the Patriots new WRs which does also help. The likes of Seyi Arijotutu, Randy McMichael, Patrick Wilson, Curtis Brinkley and Korey Sperry were signed in the wake of these injuries and were playing in those games just days later.

They were missing close to everyone for much of the middle chunk of the season, in week 9 they had zero WR/TEs from 2009 available, and in week 11 only had a playing-injured Floyd (who had just 2 catches for 24 yards). In those two games Rivers went 32-of-47 for 528 yards, 8 TDs, 1 INT while San Diego scored 64 points and won both.

Not to the extent? That’s what I just can’t get. How could any QB not be significantly affected, when they start a season where none of his targets have ever caught a pass from him before. Most Pats fans with a grounding in reality, expected the strong possibility that this would not be a pretty year statistically speaking for Brady. Now what I think know one predicted, was how well the defense has performed.

Again, Edelman had even if as a peripheral player, in week 1 there was Vereen also - both had 7 receptions. Added to that, most of the guys had not caught a pass in a competitive game from him before, but had done so in preseason which should not be overlooked.

In the seven games between that a Pittsburgh he did have, as I have said already, huge WR issues. But he also went 142-of-265 (53.5%) for 1,536 yards (5.8/att and 219/game), with 7 TDs, 5 INTs which gives a QBR of 71.83. It was not Brady that won those games (which that article tries to suggest and which was the whole point of my initial post), but the fact that they were averaging over 115 rushing yards per game while the defense was allowing just 16.1 points per game.

Even under those circumstances (and he did have Gronkowski back for two of those games), yes I believe there are at least 8 QBs who could have done about that well - just look at Rivers above as an example (which worked out to a 136.34 rating). You can point to moments like the game-winning drive against the Saints, and with validity, but in truth he had a poor game that day outside of that drive.

And again, didn't I point also out that Brady has consistently praised and thanked the defense all season for the wins. Now if you can see past the media BS like you said you can, why then are you getting so vexed by their BS? I'm telling you as a life long fanatically fan that problems were expected and they happened. Have the offensive struggles surprised me? No. Have they frustrated me? Fúck ya. Maybe you should stop listening to sugar coating media BS and maybe digest the opinion of a fan like me. It might just save you getting vexed

I find it interesting and kind of comical, and also it has a funny tendency to shape public perception both elsewhere and in here. Also to jump back to the football comparison, it's easy to see why the English media jumps behind Rooney or Hart or others when they are 'on' and ignores/excuses all the bad stuff, but in the NFL I am often perplexed as to how they 'pick their favourites' and their scape goats (I'm thinking more Matt Ryan vs. Tony Romo types here). This is a discussion forum after all, so why not discuss it?

Why? Because of this. You made it a team issue by mentioning only one player, hence the reason I suggested you should post in the Pats thread. Now if you mentioned several players from several different teams, then obviously your post wouldn't have been interpreted as a team specific issue.

I have made posts like this previously. You actually responded to one of them relating to Ryan/Romo that got changed to Rodgers/Manning one on one of the weekly threads and suggested I post it elsewhere - so I did here.

But you specifically mentioned one guy who happens to be the QB of my team. So of course I am going to respond and point out some team facts to you ect. So looking back on that post, my interpretation was a natural one to make. Perhaps if you quoted several examples, I would have interpreted your post differently. That’s why I pointed out Manning to you earlier. It has been non-stop the last two days and I just found it funny that you appear to have only taken issue with some silly comment they made about Brady.

It's the latest one I just stumbled by - I ignore NFLN almost completely (they don't even try to make it seem intelligent at this point - 10 seconds of Heath Evans on screen is enough to melt someone's brains! ).

I've been following the NFL for 11 years now but only started posting here recently. Last year I had the same opinion of the Manning "MVP" talk when he was playing for a team that Tim Tebow had got to the playoffs with (then again my main issue with that award is calling it 'most valuable' - glad it went to Peterson). Of course this year, correctly or not, Manning is going to get silly amounts of praise because he is on pace for 60 odd TDs and close to 6,000 passing yards. When someone is doing that, even regardless of outside factors it becomes very difficult to argue or take issue with.

Just like "should Eli be in the HOF?" last year - I was incredulous over that talk, but found it amusing at the same time.

Son Of A Vidic

^ ^ ^

I'll be replying to that in the Pats thread later and in 'later' I mean probably tomorrow. I'm enjoying my beer and football too much right now to be wasting time with excessive typing.

Hazys

Son Of A Vidic

Billy86 - You will find the reply to your last post in the Pats thread. I briefly posted it here, but had a change of heart since it's not fair to other users to be clogging the thread with specific team talk.

Oat23

Realt Dearg Sec

Oat23 wrote: »

Just in case we were in any doubt about Kyle long's whiteness.

Masked Man

Does he catch Forte's foot?

Oat23

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Just in case we were in any doubt about Kyle long's whiteness.

Someone on the bears forum said he was trying to do a 40s style dance since the throwbacks were being worn

rockonollie

Weird and wacky box checked.........a dolphin on a highlight reel....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/top-5-must-see-plays-week-11-video-025139818--nfl.html?vp=1

Innish_Rebel

Oat23 wrote: »

I'm just happy we've an offensive linesman that knows how to move in that direction down field after a couple of years with them stuck in reverse gear... I'll choose to ignore the "dancing" for now!!!

At long last the fondness some players have for long locks has made the headlines, with Jason Babin ripping out a clump of Andre Eliingtons mane.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/arizona-andre-ellington-gets-dreadlocks-ripped-jacksonville-end-204056027--nfl.html

Perhaps lucky that a clump of scalp did not come away. But surely players should not have to be told that it's a little silly proferring anything that can be grabbed in an effort to stop progress. Or maybe I'm sounding a bit too drill instructor-ish.

rockonollie

Deleted User wrote: »

At long last the fondness some players have for long locks has made the headlines, with Jason Babin ripping out a clump of Andre Eliingtons mane.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/arizona-andre-ellington-gets-dreadlocks-ripped-jacksonville-end-204056027--nfl.html

Perhaps lucky that a clump of scalp did not come away. But surely players should not have to be told that it's a little silly proferring anything that can be grabbed in an effort to stop progress. Or maybe I'm sounding a bit too drill instructor-ish.

I'm waiting to see the league ban tackle-by-hair.....I know it's considered part of the uniform, but I see it as being similar to grabbing the facemask or horse-collar.......the league are obviously against anything that could cause the head to whip around.

Arawn

rockonollie wrote: »

I'm waiting to see the league ban tackle-by-hair.....I know it's considered part of the uniform, but I see it as being similar to grabbing the facemask or horse-collar.......the league are obviously against anything that could cause the head to whip around.

problem is if your hair is covering part of the uniform that can be grabbed I'd see it as your own fault

nerd69

Didn't they ban hair hanging out of the helmets/ long enough to block the name a few years ago

Realt Dearg Sec

nerd69 wrote: »

Didn't they ban hair hanging out of the helmets/ long enough to block the name a few years ago

They tried to in the time of Joe Namath, they called it the Johnny Unitas rule.

Now there's a haircut you could set your watch to!

Knex*

Cam Newton for a huge 3rd down last night. Wow.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Cam Newton for a huge 3rd down last night. Wow.

No.54 for the Pats makes the tackle at the end of the play, great hustle there too