The Weird, Wacky and Awesome World of the NFL - General Banter thread

Son Of A Vidic

The Bears certainly have some nice talent on offense, just a pity Cutler seems incapable of being able to consistently use it.

Realt Dearg Sec

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

The Bears certainly have some nice talent on offense, just a pity Cutler seems incapable of being able to consistently use it.

Maybe but there's bigger problems than just Cutler. Jeffrey and Marshall have both struggled a lot to get any kind of separation this year, and in general we seem to be a very predictable offense. Forte is currently the shining exception, but the flatness of the offense isn't all about Cutler by any means, and there's clearly major coaching issues that need to be cleaned up. A lot of people are ready to push the emergency button on the Trestman era. I'd be more inclined to disagree if it seemed at all like he was willing to change things up. He doesn't though.

Son Of A Vidic

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Maybe but there's bigger problems than just Cutler. Jeffrey and Marshall have both struggled a lot to get any kind of separation this year, and in general we seem to be a very predictable offense. Forte is currently the shining exception, but the flatness of the offense isn't all about Cutler by any means, and there's clearly major coaching issues that need to be cleaned up. A lot of people are ready to push the emergency button on the Trestman era. I'd be more inclined to disagree if it seemed at all like he was willing to change things up. He doesn't though.

The wheels seem to have fallen off the wagon in October. Before that, and especially after the away win to the 49er's, I was thinking ye might be going on a nice run.

Tristram

The worse the Bears play and the more Forte continues to produce the greater my man-love for him grows. I remember thinking he was somewhat over-rated a few seasons ago but no longer. At times he is almost single-handedly carrying the Bears offense up the field.

spiralism

There's a huge amount of problems with the Bears, Trestman seems to be totally clueless defensively and now his offence is sputtering to boot. Cutler will never be the guy, maybe its his attitude along with his injuries but he's never gonna be consistent enough to do it. Even Eli Manning for all his renowned inconsistency has had some great runs and shows up against the big teams, Cutler on the other hand wilts against them.

This team reminds me so much of the late 2000s Broncos it's not even funny. Cutler and marshall, running the ball well, explosive yet inconsistent offence, ridiculously bad defence and persisting with a terrible DC. Not a place you want to be and for us it had to get worse before it got better

Realt Dearg Sec

spiralism wrote: »

There's a huge amount of problems with the Bears, Trestman seems to be totally clueless defensively and now his offence is sputtering to boot. Cutler will never be the guy, maybe its his attitude along with his injuries but he's never gonna be consistent enough to do it. Even Eli Manning for all his renowned inconsistency has had some great runs and shows up against the big teams, Cutler on the other hand wilts against them.

This team reminds me so much of the late 2000s Broncos it's not even funny. Cutler and marshall, running the ball well, explosive yet inconsistent offence, ridiculously bad defence and persisting with a terrible DC. Not a place you want to be and for us it had to get worse before it got better

The thing is we knew that Trestman was going to be an offensive minded HC, it was what was really needed. But hiring Mel Tucker, and more importantly not ditching him when it's quite clear he's not up to it, leaves us in massive trouble. I read this in a power rankings today:

"This is Bears defensive coordinator Mel Tucker's seventh season as a defensive coordinator, and his third with Chicago. In his first six seasons his defenses finished better than 23rd in yards allowed once and better than 24th in points allowed twice. So this year's ranking of 18th in yards allowed is an improvement! (The ranking of 29th in points allowed is not.)"

The offense hasn't been great at getting off the field but Cutler had two turnovers, that isn't 51 points worth of mistakes that we can blame on him. Which isn't to defend him, much less his contract, which I was actually a defender of in the past.

helimachoptor

champ is retiring and surely heading to Canton

Billy86

helimachoptor wrote: »

champ is retiring and surely heading to Canton

Woodton, Ed Reed, and to (only a slightly lesser extent) he have to go down as amongst the very best DBs to ever play. Especially considering all of them were as good, if not better, post 2004 than they were before the rule changes. Just like people say you have to take that into account with today's QBs, the same is true in reverse of today's defensive backs.

nerd69

mark barron has been traded to the rams for a 4th and a 6th

GoldFour4

Jesus the Bucs are really trying to tank so. Most of the trade talk I've seen on twitter has mentioned them.

nerd69

malistheman wrote: »

Jesus the Bucs are really trying to tank so. Most of the trade talk I've seen on twitter has mentioned them.

apparently jackson and martin are staying now there in the process trading a lb (castillio i think it was)

Tristram

If they really want to tank they will continue playing Martin every week.

spiralism

Billy86 wrote: »

Woodton, Ed Reed, and to (only a slightly lesser extent) he have to go down as amongst the very best DBs to ever play. Especially considering all of them were as good, if not better, post 2004 than they were before the rule changes. Just like people say you have to take that into account with today's QBs, the same is true in reverse of today's defensive backs.

I think he outranks either. Pushes Deion in the category of the greatest to ever play the position. The defining shutdown corner. In his career he had at least one season where he allowed no TDs in coverage and in 2006 he had more INTs than passes completed against him. This was often on defences that were total **** as well because Shanahan never had a clue about that side of the game and McDaniels was a total mong who had no clue about either.

Legend of a player and he deserved more than what we gave him.

JaMarcusHustle

Peyton's personal jet has landed in Boston ahead of this weekends game.

Shedite27

I'm not going to name names, but were people on this thread seriously arguing that Rivers is a top 5 QB???

He completed 12 of 23 passes for 138 yards and zero touchdowns against three interceptions and lost a fumble in a 37-0 loss to the Miami Dolphins. The Chargers finished scoreless in a game for the first time since 1999, and Rivers' 31.0 QB rating was the third-worst of his career — and lowest since 2007

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/philip-rivers--san-diego-chargers-implode-in-blowout-loss-to-miami-dolphins-211839802.html

Realt Dearg Sec

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm not going to name names, but were people on this thread seriously arguing that Rivers is a top 5 QB???


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/philip-rivers--san-diego-chargers-implode-in-blowout-loss-to-miami-dolphins-211839802.html

Did you come on to disagree at the time?

TO.

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm not going to name names, but were people on this thread seriously arguing that Rivers is a top 5 QB???


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/philip-rivers--san-diego-chargers-implode-in-blowout-loss-to-miami-dolphins-211839802.html

Not that I think Rivers is a Top 5 QB or anything but you can't blame the whole game on him. His defense were rubbish, his protection was rubbish and his WR couldn't get open and dropped footballs all over the shop. He also made bad mistakes and every QB has had really bad day at some point. Brady, Manning, Brees and Rodgers have had some horrendous games in their careers. Doesn't take away from their talents.

Billy86

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm not going to name names, but were people on this thread seriously arguing that Rivers is a top 5 QB???


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/philip-rivers--san-diego-chargers-implode-in-blowout-loss-to-miami-dolphins-211839802.html

Well that's not a terrible argument at all...

In 2008 Peyton Manning had two games with QBRs in the mid 40s, 2 picks and no TDs both games, with lower YPA and completion percentages than Rivers had yesterday, and the year before he had a game with six interceptions. I guess we can agree than around that time, Manning was not a top 5 QB. Oh wait what, he was All Pro and MVP that year?

In 2003 and 2006 Brady had two games with no TDs and 4 interceptions with 50 and 57% accuracy (Rivers was 52% yesterday) and a lower YPA both times - his QBR in those two were 22.5 and 34.0. So I guess he must have not been near the top 5 in the early/mid 2000s? Hold on wait, wasn't he All Pro, a pro bowler and one of the most very highly regarded QBs in that period? Hhhhhhhmmmmm....

In 2012 Drew Brees threw five interceptions and no TDs while completing 56% of his passes for a 6.8 average at 37.6 QBR. I guess we can write him off as being a top 5 quarterback around that time too, right? Hhhhmmm hhhmmm hhhmm...



The fact is that Rivers had a terrible game yesterday as did his entire team, and it was a big hit to his MVP candidacy especially with the likes of Brady and even Roethlisberger making major pushes over the last two weeks. But that's the thing... over the first 7 weeks of the season he was probably the front runner for that award. Trying to judge a ten year veteran QB on a single game of his is beyond stupid and beyond disingenuous, and I am quite sure you know that.

Outside of Brady, Brees, Manning and Rodgers feel free to name me a clearly better QB over the last season and a half than Rivers.

Chucky the tree

Shedite27 wrote: »

I'm not going to name names, but were people on this thread seriously arguing that Rivers is a top 5 QB???


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/philip-rivers--san-diego-chargers-implode-in-blowout-loss-to-miami-dolphins-211839802.html

Yes. He still is unless your stupid enough to let one game decide it for you.

Areyouwell

Billy86 wrote: »

I guess we can agree than around that time, Manning was not a top 5 QB. Oh wait what, he was All Pro and MVP that year?

All Pro is one thing, but so what about MVP? It's only a meaningless popularity pageant. No question for me that Mannining has certainly won it a few times when he didn't deserve it. Rodgers & Brady should have at least one more each. Sorry for going off topic, but the MVP award has become a joke.

GoldFour4

Using one of the worst games of his career to judge his ranking in the league is just nonsense. He's been a consistently good QB for the last several years. He's easily in the top 5/6 in the league. I can't think of anyone who you'd put ahead of him tbh.

He's still top 5. Everyone has a bad game and he's not exactly drowning in supporting talent.
Easy to play against a passer when there's no run option. Give him a good running back in the draft and a couple of other pieces and they're in the playoffs no doubt.

Billy86

Areyouwell wrote: »

All Pro is one thing, but so what about MVP? It's only a meaningless popularity pageant. No question for me that Mannining has certainly won it a few times when he didn't deserve it. Rodgers & Brady should have at least one more each. Sorry for going off topic, but the MVP award has become a joke.

Ah yeah it has, but I think it's safe to say when someone is first team all pro and mvp that it's pretty safe to say they were a top 5 QB that year.

Vandango

Billy86 wrote: »

with the likes of Brady and even Roethlisberger making major pushes over the last two weeks.

Two weeks? No that's not correct. For Ben it is, for Brady it isn't. Ever since one or two media trolls thought Brady was finished (laughs heartily) after the Chiefs game. This is what he has done in the last 5 games....

18 TDs - 143 of 197 passes (72.9%) - 1,601 Yards. The one int was off a ball tipped by Amendola.

Billy86

Vandango wrote: »

Two weeks? No that's not correct. For Ben it is, for Brady it isn't. Ever since one or two media trolls thought Brady was finished (laughs heartily) after the Chiefs game. This is what he has done in the last 5 games....

18 TDs - 143 of 197 passes (72.9%) - 1,601 Yards. The one int was off a ball tipped by Amendola.

He has been doing very, very well for the last 4 or 5 weeks, but Luck, Rivers and Rodgers have also faltered individually and lost games over the last two weeks where he has had 700 yards and 9 TDs to only one pick, including a major win over Denver and his team have put up 94 points despite him not even playing the end of the Bears game due to the scoreline. That's why I said he and Roethlisberger (who also had excellent numbers against Houston three weeks back) have closed the gap more over the last two weeks than in the time previous to that.

Shedite27

Obviously it's just one game, but there's no way you can put Rivers in any top 5 list, be it top 5 this season, top 5 playing in the league, top 5 over Rivers career.

OAOB

Shedite27 wrote: »

Obviously it's just one game, but there's no way you can put Rivers in any top 5 list, be it top 5 this season, top 5 playing in the league, top 5 over Rivers career.

Of course he's top 5 this season, ridiculous statement.

phatkev

Shedite27 wrote: »

, but there's no way you can put Rivers in any top 5 list, be it top 5 this season.

Just out of interest who would be your top 5 QBs this season?

JaMarcusHustle

Shedite27 wrote: »

Obviously it's just one game, but there's no way you can put Rivers in any top 5 list, be it top 5 this season, top 5 playing in the league, top 5 over Rivers career.

And what about last season then?

Because he was pretty much unanimously in most end of season Top 5's.

Billy86

Shedite27 wrote: »

Obviously it's just one game, but there's no way you can put Rivers in any top 5 list, be it top 5 this season, top 5 playing in the league, top 5 over Rivers career.

Go on then, name a QB outside of Brady, Brees, Manning and Rogers who has clearly been better than Rivers over the last season and a half.