What idiots make the policy decisions at Fas???

loctite

Mods - Feel free to move if in the wrong place...

I am just off the phone to my local FAS office and I am furious, not with the lovely lady who was completely empathetic to my situation and helpful but to the idiots who decide on policy there, and to be more precise the WPP (work placement programme) http://www.fas.ie/en/Job+Seeker/WPP/default.htm

Work placement programme, the name is fairly self explanatory. Designed to allow you keep welfare benefits and to gain employment/ employment experience with most of the jobs offered (definitely in my district) are aimed at graduates.

However,
Problem 1. You have to be claiming or eligible to claim unemployment benefit/allowance or unemployed a period of 6 months. 6 Months!!!!
Whatever about the time differential between a qualified graduate who finishes their degree in June and a job available in September which they would not be able to apply for due to the 6 months unemployment period. Why should FAS be trying to keep anyone on welfare???

Problem 2.
And this is my personal favouite.....
Once you get employment, you keep a hold of your welfare payment....
Well what if you are not eligible to receive welfare payments? Well then you work for FREE!

Maybe I am over reacting, but this sounds insane to me. I am trying to apply this proposal to my own situation and it is just incomprehensible... It would cost me the guts of 100 euro a week in travel expenses alone. It would send myself and my wife financially over the edge. Coupled with this, hasn't welfare payments for under 21's been cut or stopped???

This to me sounds completely unethical and immoral

anyones views??

Irishrossoblu

So in short you are angry that you have to be on the Live Reg 6 months + to get the WPP?

Scofflaw

The six months wait I presume is because the idea behind Fás is to allow those who are long-term unemployed to get state aid in retraining/reskilling - rather than to allow those who are 'between jobs' to avail of it.

Six months tells them that there's a real problem for you in finding work.

If you're not entitled to receive welfare payments I'm not sure why there would be some other mechanism for you to be paid in a job that's only available because Welfare is paying the person doing it? Perhaps I'm taking you up wrong there?

cordially,
Scofflaw

NapoleonInRags

To be fair to FAS (a rare thing these days), the policy decisions on criteria for new programmes are usually set by the Government / Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment. FAS are left to implement these decisions.

loctite

loctite wrote: »

Well what if you are not eligible to receive welfare payments?

Then I would assume you are not eligible for the Work Placement Program? As you say, you must be in receipt of JSB/JSA for six months.

loctite wrote: »

hasn't welfare payments for under 21's been cut or stopped???

Halved for those 20 and under in April '09 (ie; if you're 18, 19 or 20 you only receive €100 per week) and although it is yet to be officially confirmed, it looks like it will be reduced to €160 per week for those 21, 22 and 23 years of in the upcoming budget (next Wednesday).



The work placement program is both graet and poor at the same time in my opinion. It's good for those who would like to avail of it I suppose (those educated properly for the graduate version). However, for those under-educated (the non-graduate, Joe Soap version) it's a waste of time, and I feel an actual FAS course would be more beneficial and you'd learn something from it.


I also believe the Work placement program has been a horrible failure so far, so they have either already changed (or are changing) the criteria that people must meet to get in there.

Personally, I seen a job on it I'd love to do (well not so much do, but learn from) but I can't get it as I'm not a graduate.

The problem here is, very stereotypically, FAS put the graduates in office, computer and administration jobs, and put the non-graduates in welding and horticulture. Pretty poor of them to do so in my opinion, as most of the jobs could provide a real learning experience and possibly set up a person with poor formal education into a good job, rather than someone who has been moulded for that job, but wont take it. There are plenty of graduate jobs on FAS' site, and they've been there for a while. It seems the graduates are in no rush to get them..?



Did i just go into my own little rant?

Sorry OP

loctite

Irishrossoblu wrote: »

So in short you are angry that you have to be on the Live Reg 6 months + to get the WPP?

No, for a start this has now been ammended, not sure how long it is but it has been reduced from 6 months. My whole gripe with this is, like the numerous unemployed out there, I want to work. But I am being put in a position that I can apply for such positions, but I am going to be in a worse off position because I am working.... this makes absolutly no sense whatsoever...

Scofflaw wrote: »

The six months wait I presume is because the idea behind Fás is to allow those who are long-term unemployed to get state aid in retraining/reskilling - rather than to allow those who are 'between jobs' to avail of it.

I agree with your presumption however it is targeted at graduates and not at retraining or reskilling. Either way it is still ridiculous, and obviously someone in Department of Trade & Enterprise agrees and has ammended it as such.

Deleted User wrote: »

Then I would assume you are not eligible for the Work Placement Program? As you say, you must be in receipt of JSB/JSA for six months.

No, I am. But I am not in receipt of any social welfare payments, therefore if I were to take up one of these positions, It would cost me to go to work.

Deleted User wrote: »

The work placement program is both graet and poor at the same time in my opinion. It's good for those who would like to avail of it I suppose (those educated properly for the graduate version). However, for those under-educated (the non-graduate, Joe Soap version) it's a waste of time, and I feel an actual FAS course would be more beneficial and you'd learn something from it.

I disagree, It is great for those who would like to avail of it...? Its a complete disaster for those who want to avail of it but cannot afford to avail of it.

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem here is, very stereotypically, FAS put the graduates in office, computer and administration jobs, and put the non-graduates in welding and horticulture. Pretty poor of them to do so in my opinion, as most of the jobs could provide a real learning experience and possibly set up a person with poor formal education into a good job, rather than someone who has been moulded for that job, but wont take it. There are plenty of graduate jobs on FAS' site, and they've been there for a while. It seems the graduates are in no rush to get them..?

Again, I have to disagree on two points. Firstly, in Fas' defence, they provide an array of course in Accounts and other courses other than Dog grooming studies etc...

Secondly, It is criteria for applying itself that is detering graduates.
I acknowledge that it has changed but, wait 6 months, that would mean you are eligible to apply in December... (There is no record of this after changing on the site) Oh, and you have to work for nothing...

loctite

Scofflaw wrote: »

If you're not entitled to receive welfare payments I'm not sure why there would be some other mechanism for you to be paid in a job that's only available because Welfare is paying the person doing it? Perhaps I'm taking you up wrong there?

Sorry I didn't retort on this comment. The job is not only available because welfare is paying the person doing it. You can still apply if you are unemployed and are not in receipt of welfare. The position would still exist regardless of whether you are on welfare or not.

But the issue is, those that receive welfare keep it while working, those that don't, don't earn anything.

Are you sure about that though?


Because if you're not entitled to anything on welfare, you still get the FAS allowance for attending a course. Im sure you'd get the JSB or FAS allowance once you start the WPP?

loctite

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you sure about that though?


Because if you're not entitled to anything on welfare, you still get the FAS allowance for attending a course. Im sure you'd get the JSB or FAS allowance once you start the WPP?

Not according to the helpful lady in FAS office.........stand to be corrected.

BostonB

loctite wrote: »

...I am furious, ...with ... the idiots who decide on policy.., and to be more precise the WPP (work placement programme) ...

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Press/PressReleases/2009/Pages/pr270509.aspx

Speaking at the launch the Tánaiste said, "With the increasing numbers of people who are unemployed this Government is continuing to develop and put in place new programmes that will enhance the work experience and training opportunities for these individuals. Today we are announcing the details of two such initiatives, the Work Placement Programme and a pilot Short Time Working Training Programme, both of which demonstrate our commitment in Government to assisting and activating the unemployed and those individuals who are on a reduced working week."

Dellywelly

loctite wrote: »

Not according to the helpful lady in FAS office.........stand to be corrected.

I can confirm that this is an unpaid and voluntaty programme. There is no payment attached and FAS do not pay a training allowance as it is not a training programme.

If you are getting certain social welfare payments welfare will let you keep it so long as you have been getting a payment for a least 3 months before you start on the placement.

The idea behind this I reckon is that the government what people to have tried other avenues, getting a paid job, retraining etc before they look at a 9 month work placement.

The programme is not for everyone but is working out really well for some people that have started already.

ei.sdraob

idiots?

i wouldnt call them "idiots" since they are all laughing all the way to the bank

more like conmen