External wall insulation - help!!!

sinnerboy

Without naming names can you please expand on what went wrong ?

S Connor

I have a report of 2 A4 pages of problems with the job, written by THEIR expert. Acrylic finish is all over my new windows and porch. The insulation boards are showing through the finish. The had a choice of 3 different ways to put in a plinth and they choose not to put one on at all. Now the water is seeping up through the finish. Its totally patchy and messy and the report says the whole thing has to be done again. Its only on my house less then 4 weeks and it looks totally awful.All window cills have to be removed again, plus all the finish.

sinnerboy

That sounds awful sorry to hear this . Please keep us posted on how things proceed .
Was the contractor on the SEI HES list of contractors ?

S Connor

Sinnerboy that last was reply to you. To be honest there are lots more problems then I can go into here. It would take me ages to list them all.

S Connor

Yes he is on the list of the SEI. But what you need is a builder approved by the NSAI as I learned to my cost.

footing

S Connor wrote: »

Yes he is on the list of the SEI. But what you need is a builder approved by the NSAI as I learned to my cost.

Read this thread with interest. Four years ago, got my house drylined internally and double glazing put in. The effect was amazing and my heating costs halved.
Now I'm being told to get external insulation (long story) and I'm not sure it's worth it. For €3,000 (really €500 because there is a €2,500 grant) you can get your house drylined and get it to about 80% insulated; not perfect but pretty darn good.
For that extra 20%, you are going to pay around €20,000 plus another €4,000 for an elaborate pump to stop mould on your walls (or so I am advised) because you will effectively be living in a plastic bag; not good in a damp climate like ours.
I would think long and hard before investing all that money in systems that were created and designed for new houses in cold dry places like Scandinavia and Germany. Plus I suspect they will come up with a better solution for a damp, chilly climate like we have in the next few years. Get the dry lining and then wait a few years!

Builderfromhell

I have used external insulation systems using timber frame construction. The wall then breaths, no cold bridging and no mould growth.
The problems with internal dry lining include mould behind the insulation in cetain cases.
With the increased complexity of solutions to heat loss and the possible danger of mould growth it is becoming more and more important for people to get professional advice.

Poor Uncle Tom

Builderfromhell wrote: »

........ it is becoming more and more important for people to get professional advice.

This is exactly what it boils down to.

Each system as pros and cons and a huge factor in deciding what system to use is the living conditions and lifestyle choices of the occupants of any given house, imo.

Similar to the design of any house, the choice of insulation systems for any house should be on a case by case basis, imo.

footing

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I have used external insulation systems using timber frame construction. The wall then breaths, no cold bridging and no mould growth.
The problems with internal dry lining include mould behind the insulation in cetain cases.
With the increased complexity of solutions to heat loss and the possible danger of mould growth it is becoming more and more important for people to get professional advice.

Can this be fitted to, say, a 60 year old house?
I would be happy with external insulation if it wasn't made from some substance that begins with "poly" which to my mind means plastic. Plus it's probably incredibly eco-unfriendly to produce.

sinnerboy

You can have Rockwool in liue of poly******.

S Connor

Have already got the external insulation redone. So far so good. My house is so much warmer it's unbelievable. Haven't bought any kind of pump though? Walls that were once freezing and always wet are now warm and dry to the touch. I usually have to clean mould off them every 6 to 8 weeks. Insulation done over 5 months now and haven't had to clean off any mould in that time. Also haven't had the heating on at all. I know it's early days but am really happy with it so far. I would still recommend extensive research of your builder though. Lots of cowboys out there that haven't a clue what they're doing.

tfer

Builderfromhell wrote: »

I have used external insulation systems using timber frame construction.

could you elaborate on what systems you have used and which is your favorite? and why?
Am building a timber frame shortly and would like to use an external insulation, thanks

tomas1

I sow a web page with calculator for costs of the external insulation, and how it works maybe it would help <SNIP>

Mod Edit: Please don't name a company on thread, it is against the forum charter. Please read the charter before posting, thank you.

tomas1

S Connor wrote: »

I have a report of 2 A4 pages of problems with the job, written by THEIR expert. Acrylic finish is all over my new windows and porch. The insulation boards are showing through the finish. The had a choice of 3 different ways to put in a plinth and they choose not to put one on at all. Now the water is seeping up through the finish. Its totally patchy and messy and the report says the whole thing has to be done again. Its only on my house less then 4 weeks and it looks totally awful.All window cills have to be removed again, plus all the finish.

Please could you tell me the name of the company?

bacon&cabbage

I was thinking about getting dry lining done also. Is it an architect or engineer that I should be getting to advise me ? i.e. someone that will give me the best independent advice

Poor Uncle Tom

bacon&cabbage wrote: »

I was thinking about getting dry lining done also. Is it an architect or engineer that I should be getting to advise me ? i.e. someone that will give me the best independent advice

Neither, a good local Architectural Technician, imo.

S Connor

Hi tomas1
Sorry but I won't name the company. If you get external insulation done make sure the builder is registered with the NSAI and check out their work very thoroughly.

spatchco

am thinking of getting same,do i need to get planning approval,why i ask is the house is a Crouch build half red brick to front and pebble dash top and side but i have been told that if i cover the red brick with the wrap round i could be reported for changing the face from the surrounding houses i can pump the red brick as it is the only part of the house that has a cavity,any thoughts,also the different colour of the external lining ,white,pink and blue has that anything to do with the grade or is it just the dye of the day,,thanks for any advice

spurious

footing wrote: »

Can this be fitted to, say, a 60 year old house?
I would be happy with external insulation if it wasn't made from some substance that begins with "poly" which to my mind means plastic. Plus it's probably incredibly eco-unfriendly to produce.

I'm currently having it done to my house built about 130 years ago.
If you'd like to come see it, you're welcome to PM me. I'm close to Dublin city centre.

tomas1

spatchco wrote: »

am thinking of getting same,do i need to get planning approval,why i ask is the house is a Crouch build half red brick to front and pebble dash top and side but i have been told that if i cover the red brick with the wrap round i could be reported for changing the face from the surrounding houses i can pump the red brick as it is the only part of the house that has a cavity,any thoughts,also the different colour of the external lining ,white,pink and blue has that anything to do with the grade or is it just the dye of the day,,thanks for any advice

Hi, yeah heaving the same problem, brick finishes on the external insulation exist so you dont have to change the front, but think pumping it is easyer

wesleygeorge67

You could try some of that insulating plaster, supposed to do the biz

zipee wrote: »

Hi

I am hoping to get external wall insulation. I can't get the foam, I have cavity blocks as opposed to cavity wall. So I have had someone out to look over the house. Semi D built 1960ish and bloody freezing!!

What thickness should the polysterene Panels be???

He says they put aluminium on the bottom and a different polysterene (like what is in a swimming board and it's waterproof). Does this sound right?? I probably have left our huge bits in what he said but you hopefully get the idea.

Finally, my satelite dish. Can it be put back on over the polysterene or should I leave it and let them work around it????

Any ideas of a ball park figure for a small 3 bed semi d in Dublin for this type of insulation??? Just a vague idea.

Any idea how much I would save on heating by doing this?

Any other pointers?

Many thanks

soldsold

wesleygeorge67 wrote: »

You could try some of that insulating plaster, supposed to do the biz

spam alert.

tomas1

I done the External Insulation on my house(Bungalow, Hollow block, 1972), the company is registered.

My house looks like new, already there is a comfort difference inside. Usually in October i would get mold in the corners and i would start with heating. Hope this winter there will be no mold. I had to pay e4700, HES will send e4000 to my account next month. So in total i will pay e700.

Perfect!!!

jgc115

Hi,

I'm planning to get External Wall insulation on my house, but I am unsure which system is the best.
Could anyone please tell me which of the below external wall systems is the best?

1. Rockwool
2. Phenolic or K5 Kooltherm
3. White/Grey EPS (expanded polystyrene system)

Thanking you in advance!!

jgc115

BryanF

jgc115 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm planning to get External Wall insulation on my house, but I am unsure which system is the best.
Could anyone please tell me which of the below external wall systems is the best?

1. Rockwool
2. Phenolic or K5 Kooltherm
3. White/Grey EPS (expanded polystyrene system)

Thanking you in advance!!

jgc115

what year was your house built
what are the walls / cavity

jgc115

BryanF wrote: »

what year was your house built
what are the walls / cavity

My house was built in 1973 and yes it has cavity walls - I believe they call it a "Breeze box"? The house has also got big windows, as a lot of 1970ish houses did.

BryanF

jgc115 wrote: »

My house was built in 1973 and yes it has cavity walls - I believe they call it a "Breeze box"? The house has also got big windows, as a lot of 1970ish houses did.

http://www.seai.ie/Publications/Renewables_Publications/Passive_House_Retrofit_Guidelines.pdf look at page 49 at the section on the right. if you have large windows, you should consider doing them at the same time as the EWI to gain an overlap of window and insulation, reducing alot of cold bridges.

regarding the walls I would recommend you pump the cavity with one of the better bead products on the market. with the EWI My personnel preference is for rockwool as it is better environmentally than EPS or phenolic. the look/ style of the house and depth of the eaves may dictate whether you choose the phenolic as its properties allow its application at circa half the thickness of EPS/rockwool.

you must use one of the top systems on the market and one of their recommenced installers. I spoke to a family member who is a builder recently, and hes disillusioned with EWI as he was having such difficultly in getting installers to do it properly. clearly he or is clients were not allowing the necessary budget to get it done properly. top systems on the market are twice of what others may charge, so be prepared to pay a little more than to lowest bid.

if you doing the external wall insulation consider your total building envelope, ie as per the section mention above consider your windows and how also deal carefully with the junctions at roof/ attic insulation, windows overlap, continue below ground level externally.

also consider carefully your ventilation strategy as EWI may reduce your 'breeze' house but also your fresh air requirements...

very little of the above will be discussed or on the agenda of a EWI installer so i would reommend you get professional advice, if your getting the grant you will probably need a BER assessor BUT get one who is also an Arch Tech to specify and oversee that the works on site are done correctly.

isup

I've rang a couple of Companys and they both say they stop the insulation at ground level. Is this common practice? I was sure that it would need to go down a few hundred mil

isup

My house is also cavity block, so would it be neccessary to pump with insulation aswell. Is there any downsides to this.

sydthebeat

isup wrote: »

My house is also cavity block, so would it be neccessary to pump with insulation aswell. Is there any downsides to this.

'Cavity Block' walls shouldnt be pumped with insulation.

'Cavity' walls can be.