External wall insulation - help!!!

wesleygeorge67

You could try some of that insulating plaster, supposed to do the biz

zipee wrote: »

Hi

I am hoping to get external wall insulation. I can't get the foam, I have cavity blocks as opposed to cavity wall. So I have had someone out to look over the house. Semi D built 1960ish and bloody freezing!!

What thickness should the polysterene Panels be???

He says they put aluminium on the bottom and a different polysterene (like what is in a swimming board and it's waterproof). Does this sound right?? I probably have left our huge bits in what he said but you hopefully get the idea.

Finally, my satelite dish. Can it be put back on over the polysterene or should I leave it and let them work around it????

Any ideas of a ball park figure for a small 3 bed semi d in Dublin for this type of insulation??? Just a vague idea.

Any idea how much I would save on heating by doing this?

Any other pointers?

Many thanks

soldsold

wesleygeorge67 wrote: »

You could try some of that insulating plaster, supposed to do the biz

spam alert.

tomas1

I done the External Insulation on my house(Bungalow, Hollow block, 1972), the company is registered.

My house looks like new, already there is a comfort difference inside. Usually in October i would get mold in the corners and i would start with heating. Hope this winter there will be no mold. I had to pay e4700, HES will send e4000 to my account next month. So in total i will pay e700.

Perfect!!!

jgc115

Hi,

I'm planning to get External Wall insulation on my house, but I am unsure which system is the best.
Could anyone please tell me which of the below external wall systems is the best?

1. Rockwool
2. Phenolic or K5 Kooltherm
3. White/Grey EPS (expanded polystyrene system)

Thanking you in advance!!

jgc115

BryanF

jgc115 wrote: »

Hi,

I'm planning to get External Wall insulation on my house, but I am unsure which system is the best.
Could anyone please tell me which of the below external wall systems is the best?

1. Rockwool
2. Phenolic or K5 Kooltherm
3. White/Grey EPS (expanded polystyrene system)

Thanking you in advance!!

jgc115

what year was your house built
what are the walls / cavity

jgc115

BryanF wrote: »

what year was your house built
what are the walls / cavity

My house was built in 1973 and yes it has cavity walls - I believe they call it a "Breeze box"? The house has also got big windows, as a lot of 1970ish houses did.

BryanF

jgc115 wrote: »

My house was built in 1973 and yes it has cavity walls - I believe they call it a "Breeze box"? The house has also got big windows, as a lot of 1970ish houses did.

http://www.seai.ie/Publications/Renewables_Publications/Passive_House_Retrofit_Guidelines.pdf look at page 49 at the section on the right. if you have large windows, you should consider doing them at the same time as the EWI to gain an overlap of window and insulation, reducing alot of cold bridges.

regarding the walls I would recommend you pump the cavity with one of the better bead products on the market. with the EWI My personnel preference is for rockwool as it is better environmentally than EPS or phenolic. the look/ style of the house and depth of the eaves may dictate whether you choose the phenolic as its properties allow its application at circa half the thickness of EPS/rockwool.

you must use one of the top systems on the market and one of their recommenced installers. I spoke to a family member who is a builder recently, and hes disillusioned with EWI as he was having such difficultly in getting installers to do it properly. clearly he or is clients were not allowing the necessary budget to get it done properly. top systems on the market are twice of what others may charge, so be prepared to pay a little more than to lowest bid.

if you doing the external wall insulation consider your total building envelope, ie as per the section mention above consider your windows and how also deal carefully with the junctions at roof/ attic insulation, windows overlap, continue below ground level externally.

also consider carefully your ventilation strategy as EWI may reduce your 'breeze' house but also your fresh air requirements...

very little of the above will be discussed or on the agenda of a EWI installer so i would reommend you get professional advice, if your getting the grant you will probably need a BER assessor BUT get one who is also an Arch Tech to specify and oversee that the works on site are done correctly.

isup

I've rang a couple of Companys and they both say they stop the insulation at ground level. Is this common practice? I was sure that it would need to go down a few hundred mil

isup

My house is also cavity block, so would it be neccessary to pump with insulation aswell. Is there any downsides to this.

sydthebeat

isup wrote: »

My house is also cavity block, so would it be neccessary to pump with insulation aswell. Is there any downsides to this.

'Cavity Block' walls shouldnt be pumped with insulation.

'Cavity' walls can be.

isup

sydthebeat wrote: »

'Cavity Block' walls shouldnt be pumped with insulation.

'Cavity' walls can be.

thanks sydthebeat . Makes sence.

BryanF

sorry my mistake, I meant continue the EWI externally to finish below internal floor area. It would be hard to expect people to lift paths etc for the EWI but I have seen it done where under-pining was being done anyhow.

jgc115

Thanks for the information BryanF -
BTW - I meant "Breeze Block"

I read the pdf file (on SEI site)and strangely my house looks very similar to the 1st case study on page 49. I have a garage exactly on the same side but I have bigger windows. Also double glazing was installed in the house about 15 years ago. So I presume the thermal properties of my windows wouldn't be as good as the modern double/triple glazed windows??

I was also leaning towards "Rock Wool" as my preferred choice but I was wondering about the rendering they put over it - that is, would it be strong enough to support a ladder against it while possibly doing a repair job sometime in the future? I have a sales rep (SEI approved) coming to see me in a few days to discuss the EWI rock wool install - that's why I'm trying to gather as much information as possible so I can ask the right questions.

Thanks again

sinnerboy

isup wrote: »

I've rang a couple of Companys and they both say they stop the insulation at ground level. Is this common practice?

Yes

isup wrote: »

I was sure that it would need to go down a few hundred mil

It should go right down to the top of the foundation. See pages 44+45 of this.

It would add considerably to many retrofit projects which is why it's not always done.

Smithers1

zipee wrote: »

:D:D Thanks sinnerboy! Made my day! Decision now made! Here's hoping for a warm house by end of Jan 2010!

HI - I'm now looking at the external insulation as a solution to my own house problems - how did it work out for you? Any tips for someone preparing to embark on the same trail?

S Connor

Smithers1 wrote: »

HI - I'm now looking at the external insulation as a solution to my own house problems - how did it work out for you? Any tips for someone preparing to embark on the same trail?

If it would help I can send you the name of a company I would recommend you don't go within a mile of?? They made an awful mess of my external insulation and I had to get it totally redone. They are still listed on the SEI website and I don't want anyone else to go through the same stress and expense that I did.

muffler

S Connor wrote: »

If it would help I can send you the name of a company I would recommend you don't go within a mile of?? They made an awful mess of my external insulation and I had to get it totally redone. They are still listed on the SEI website and I don't want anyone else to go through the same stress and expense that I did.

Yes, if you could PM the details please to whoever you think needs or wants them would be great. We would prefer not to see them posted here. Thanks.

bod71

S Connor wrote: »

If it would help I can send you the name of a company I would recommend you don't go within a mile of?? They made an awful mess of my external insulation and I had to get it totally redone. They are still listed on the SEI website and I don't want anyone else to go through the same stress and expense that I did.

hi, i'm also going down that route of ext insulation, if you pm me the details that would be great. thanks.

inovo

Any i dea of the cost approx for ewi on a 4 bed semi? Just a ball park figure...

BryanF

inovo wrote: »

Any i dea of the cost approx for ewi on a 4 bed semi? Just a ball park figure...

between 10-25k (i dont know the msq wall area or the standard of job you expect)
potentially 10k for 'man in white van' and somewhere closer to 20-25k for a decent job where you have some hope of it lasting, and the thermal bridges properly detailed.

Apologies for allowing for such a the vast difference, but to give an example: there are 3 or 4 ewi jobs on-going in my immediate area, none of the contractors have addressed the eaves or foundations details and i have not seen one hole cored for ventilation (the window details are best changed at the same time but I except its not to everyones budget) ...but self certification! what a marvellous system for cowboys!

inovo

BryanF wrote: »

between 10-25k (i dont know the msq wall area or the standard of job you expect)
potentially 10k for 'man in white van' and somewhere closer to 20-25k for a decent job where you have some hope of it lasting, and the thermal bridges properly detailed.

Apologies for allowing for such a the vast difference, but to give an example: there are 3 or 4 ewi jobs on-going in my immediate area, none of the contractors have addressed the eaves or foundations details and i have not seen one hole cored for ventilation (the window details are best changed at the same time but I except its not to everyones budget) ...but self certification! what a marvellous system for cowboys!

Thanks for the info. Looking at getting this done this year as half of my house is built (1982) in 'cavity block' and the remainder is cavity wall.

BryanF

inovo wrote: »

Thanks for the info. Looking at getting this done this year as half of my house is built (1982) in 'cavity block' and the remainder is cavity wall.

go with one of die German manufacturers, (ie one with a history) talk to their reps about thermal bridging & details and ask for preferred local installers.

kilclon

Thinking of going with external insulation on my house now. Its two story over basement c. 200y/o mid terrace, solid brick wall house in north Dublin inner city.
Brick is currently painted, as it is on many houses in the street. Some have also been plastered so its a real patchwork quilt, hence why I'm not as worried as I would otherwise be about losing the aesthetic qualities of the brick.
The front of the house has a parapet at roof level. The rear has no soffit with a gutter being tight to the house. All of the windows and doors need to be replaced.
A new single story kitchen extension is to be built to the rear of the house at lower return level.
So my questions are:
1) Is EWI possible on this house, with the parapet on the front and lack of soffit to the rear?
2)If so, what type of insulation would anyone recommend?
3)How would this tie in with the new rear extension?
4)Please feel free to PM recommendations of products or installers.
5)If I have missed anything obvious, please let me know.

Thanks in advance

BryanF

1. yes - get an architect/technician to specify DONT just go to a contractor
2. there's loads of options - I'm fond of the timber composite and rigid hemp or mineral wool insulations and there's a new cork system just brought to market also. then you have your usual PIR,PUR,EPS systems but they are not suitable for older buildings, as they should be able to breathe
3. ask your architect/technician - this should be no problem

kilclon

BryanF wrote: »

1. yes - get an architect/technician to specify DONT just go to a contractor
2. there's loads of options - I'm fond of the timber composite and rigid hemp or mineral wool insulations and there's a new cork system just brought to market also. then you have your usual PIR,PUR,EPS systems but they are not suitable for older buildings, as they should be able to breathe
3. ask your architect/technician - this should be no problem

Thanks Bryan, always find your posts very helpful and informative. Would you have any concerns over the durability of the natural insulations you have mentioned?

BryanF

kilclon wrote: »

BryanF wrote: »

1. yes - get an architect/technician to specify DONT just go to a contractor
2. there's loads of options - I'm fond of the timber composite and rigid hemp or mineral wool insulations and there's a new cork system just brought to market also. then you have your usual PIR,PUR,EPS systems but they are not suitable for older buildings, as they should be able to breathe
3. ask your architect/technician - this should be no problem

Thanks Bryan, always find your posts very helpful and informative. Would you have any concerns over the durability of the natural insulations you have mentioned?

Depends on the application, most can offer the same lifespan as the petroleum products. And have properties more suitable for old buildings.

Happyman42

I seen a grant job that was done close to me. I was dumbfounded with the finished job. They cut the beautiful sandstone sill and replaced it with a folded tin monstrousity with brutish white clips on the exposed edges. They then botched the seal with the window with globs of sealant. Add to that the house now looks like a cheap dolls house. Is this the norm on retro fits? The owner tried to stop them cutting the sill but they said they had to for grant purposes.

canice

I hopfully am going to get my "baltic" house externally insulated. This thread has frightened me in to the number of con men are out there...

Can ye PM me the name of the companies that ye used and thoes you would certainly never use again.
I need to know all the dos and don'ts and all advise taken on board!

muffler

canice wrote: »

I hopfully am going to get my "baltic" house externally insulated. This thread has frightened me in to the number of con men are out there...

Can ye PM me the name of the companies that ye used and thoes you would certainly never use again.
I need to know all the dos and don'ts and all advise taken on board!

It would be helpful if you stated what part of the country you're in

canice

Ooops, sorry!
Dublin

khpuddin

Hi All, I am currently getting a few quotes for getting External Wall Insulation in the South Dublin area. Could anyone who has had this done PM me and recommed or warn me about a contractor they have used?

Also one of the people who was out gave us the option of EPS or Rockwool the price difference was not that big so I am just wondering what peoples feelings are on which to go for.

From what I gather:
1. Rockwool would be thicker (120mm) as oppposed to 100mm of EPS.
2. Rockwool is fire resistant while EPS isnt
3. Rockwool can become less effective over time while EPS wont

I am veering more towards EPS but would appreciate any input.

Thanks!

muffler

khpuddin wrote: »

Hi All, I am currently getting a few quotes for getting External Wall Insulation in the South Dublin area. Could anyone who has had this done PM me and recommed or warn me about a contractor they have used?

Also one of the people who was out gave us the option of EPS or Rockwool the price difference was not that big so I am just wondering what peoples feelings are on which to go for.

From what I gather:
1. Rockwool would be thicker (120mm) as oppposed to 100mm of EPS.
2. Rockwool is fire resistant while EPS isnt
3. Rockwool can become less effective over time while EPS wont

I am veering more towards EPS but would appreciate any input.

Thanks!

Just to clarify. External Wall Insulation or EWI (abbreviated) is the process of insulating your cavity walls externally (on the outside of the walls). Are you talking about having your cavity walls insulated?

khpuddin

Yes I am talking about having my walls insulated Externally

BryanF

Age of houses
And type of wall please

khpuddin

BryanF wrote: »

Age of houses
And type of wall please

Ihi,
The house was built mid 70's and it is cavity blocks

S Connor

khpuddin wrote: »

1. Rockwool would be thicker (120mm) as oppposed to 100mm of EPS.
2. Rockwool is fire resistant while EPS isnt
3. Rockwool can become less effective over time while EPS wont

I am veering more towards EPS but would appreciate any input.

Thanks!

Hi. I went with EPS but it is 120mm thick not 100mm.

footing

khpuddin wrote: »

Hi All, I am currently getting a few quotes for getting External Wall Insulation in the South Dublin area. Could anyone who has had this done PM me and recommed or warn me about a contractor they have used?

Also one of the people who was out gave us the option of EPS or Rockwool the price difference was not that big so I am just wondering what peoples feelings are on which to go for.

From what I gather:
1. Rockwool would be thicker (120mm) as oppposed to 100mm of EPS.
2. Rockwool is fire resistant while EPS isnt
3. Rockwool can become less effective over time while EPS wont

I am veering more towards EPS but would appreciate any input.

Thanks!

I used Churchfield (via an architect/contractor) on a standard 3-bed semi-D (built 1949, so already very solid). Very professional; no mess. In and out one week. House looks and feels great - and still does two years on. However the big change to the insulation of my house came when I dry lined it four years earlier at a fraction of the cost. That along, with double glazed windows that "capture" the heat of the sun, gave me about 80% of the insulation I have and slashed my gas bills. The only prob was that I couldn't dry line a north-facing back wall, which is why I went for the external insulation a few years later when I'd got the money together. You could only get a grant if you covered the whole house.

khpuddin

Thanks for the reply very much appreciated!

BryanF

khpuddin wrote: »

Hi All, I am currently getting a few quotes for getting External Wall Insulation in the South Dublin area. Could anyone who has had this done PM me and recommed or warn me about a contractor they have used?

Also one of the people who was out gave us the option of EPS or Rockwool the price difference was not that big so I am just wondering what peoples feelings are on which to go for.

From what I gather:
1. Rockwool would be thicker (120mm) as oppposed to 100mm of EPS.
2. Rockwool is fire resistant while EPS isnt
3. Rockwool can become less effective over time while EPS wont

I am veering more towards EPS but would appreciate any input.

Thanks!

1. rockwool is recyclable, so it gets my vote,
2. yep, when you lift the paths for insulating to foundation level, you will need to use an EPS type board. ie below DPC/internal; floor level
3. id like to see the studies that suggest rigid rockwool or EA 'become less effective overtime

I've recently priced the cost of 200mm ewi for a client and the extra insulation thickness (V 120mm) only increased the price by about 10%

ceekay74

I have been considering getting external wall insulation done but quite nervous now after reading this thread so would love to hear the opinions of anyone who has had this done recently.

Does the advice of Architectural Technicians cost much?
Have prices gone down at all since 2010?
How much is it likely to cost?
My home is almost identical to this one if it helps...

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/4-tamarisk-grove-tallaght-dublin/1836438

Thanks!

canice

I had similar fears and went with a company that was recommended to me. I found them very good in every way. Eco snug was the company I used. Philip Treacy is the owner. They kept me informed at every stage and best of all they were honest and very reliable. They left the house as clean as they could even cleaning the windows! Also they did not finish the job till everything was 100% complete. I am in no way associated with the company but just found Philip to be so easy to do business with.
PM me if you want any more details or give Philip a call and he will give you a honest quote.
Teresa

lennyloulou

S Connor wrote: »

If it would help I can send you the name of a company I would recommend you don't go within a mile of?? They made an awful mess of my external insulation and I had to get it totally redone. They are still listed on the SEI website and I don't want anyone else to go through the same stress and expense that I did.

hi would you mind PM me also please. am going about EWI also. thanks

longlooker

Hi

In city and thinking of getting external insulation in my 3bed semi, any recommendations? Any idea reading price? There s some brick on my house, will this ave to be replaced or will they just plaster over it. Don't mind slightly the brick....or will they remove it and they put it back o?

Thanks all

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

richban

In relation to cost of External Wall Insulation, I see a 2009 post saying 'ball park cost €110 per m2 wall area ' - anyone know is this still a good guide price?

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

BryanF

When getting quotes ensure the contractors are quoting like with like. For instance will they lift paths and bring insulation to foundation, and take of soffit to meet roof insulation, wall and eaves vents, everything down to the garden tap should be specified.

Melendez

This post has been deleted.

jamboambo1

Could you pm me the details of the crowd you used as i want to make sure i don't use them. Can anyone recommend a good company.

Solair

We've a house built in the early 1970s and it has a cavity wall, but there's polystyrene sheet in the middle of it, which doesn't seem to occupy the whole cavity.

Is it still possible to do cavity wall insulation with some kind of injected material with that, or would we have to resort to external wall insulation?

It's painted external plaster ..... block ...... cavity .... layer of polystyrene.... block ... internal plaster.