Health reform plan agreed

Riskymove

Trade union leaders and Government officials have reached a draft transformation agreement for the health services following marathon talks overnight.

The agreement is subject to an overall deal for reducing the public sector pay bill being approved by the Government.

Under the draft agreement, an expanded core working day from 8am to 8pm, during which no overtime rates would apply, would be introduced from early next year.

Staff could also be rostered for five out of every seven days – a move which would reduce overtime and allowances costs.

There is also to be a review of staffing ratios, skill mix and rosters.

The agreed paper on health service transformation was reached shortly after 8am this morning following talks which ran through the night.

Health service reform is a key element of the transformation programme for the public service being considered between the Government and trade unions.

This is good news as we can finally get some information on this and other sectors for the Tranmsformation of Public Services plan which the is the medium to long term part of the package (rather than just the short term bridging measures currently being focussed on)


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1204/breaking11.htm

funnyname

Riskymove wrote: »

This is good news as we can finally get some information on this and other sectors for the Tranmsformation of Public Services plan which the is the medium to long term part of the package (rather than just the short term bridging measures currently being focussed on)


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1204/breaking11.htm

Hopefully they'll reverse the pay increase the HSE managers got in September.

gent9662

Looks like the government are starting to crunble to union pressure. I just hope the backbenchers vote it down.

Riskymove

already a thread on this

Scofflaw

Riskymove wrote: »

already a thread on this

Merged.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Riskymove

dclane wrote: »

Looks like the government are starting to crunble to union pressure. I just hope the backbenchers vote it down.

just out of interest whats this view about?

any agreement with the Health sector on how to reform, reduce costs etc is "crumbling to pressure" and should be voted down??

FlutterinBantam

Heard the Union guy on the radio.

Another fudge with everyone trotting out the "Mum and Apple Pie" stuff when in reality they won't give an inch.Vague aspirations and wishy washy stuff

We will give huge savings but no pay cuts!!!:D


Pull the other one pal.


get off the frikken stage lads.

seangal

from this agreement do they want employees to work a sunday for normal pay???

ParkRunner

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1204/partnership.html

Breakthrough in public sector pay talks

Government officials and trade unions negotiators are said to be close to reaching an overall agreement on radical change in the public sector including savings of €1.3bn.

It is understood the main elements of the agreement that is emerging include:

Agreement on changes, work practices, productivity in Health, Education, Local Authorities and The Civil Service (including non-commercial State Bodies).

Sources say these changes would involve 8-8 shift rosters, staff mobility and flexible work practices.


Savings - according to a number of union sources the savings package is of the order of €1bn and this includes an effective pay-cut of 12 days next year for public sector workers.

The balance of the savings, €300m would be achieved by the Government implementing the report of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration, the accrued savings from the implementation of the embargo on recruitment, and the reduction in numbers as a result of the incentivised leave scheme.


Unpaid leave - it is understood a separate document dealing with the issue of unpaid leave is being finalised.

This will focus on how the 12 days unpaid leave would be implemented without impacting on the delivery of public services.

It is understood that in education, for instance, there would be an option for the leave to be taken over a period of six years to minimise potential disruption.

An overall agreement, if accepted and endorsed by the Government, would also involve the establishment of a Transformation Commission that would oversee and verify the implementation of the agreement in various sectors of the public service.

It doesnt seem too dissimilar to the first deal reached apart from the implementation of the report of the Review Body on Higher Remuneration, but at least there is a lot more detail in the longer term restructuring of the public sector.

It seems like a fair enough deal to me anyway..?

frman

It's a fudge.

LoLth

threads merged.

Darragh29

Sure "reform" was promised during the benchmarking years and we never saw any of it, all we got was the, "ah it'll be grand" attitude being taken.

These people simply can't be trusted with change or reform. If it is being promised, then a group of people outside of the system they work in need to oversee that the change is actually happening...

Apparently they have the health servce all reformed now, I bet the consultants on 300K plus will still be on a 20 hour week, so I don't see how that is going to work...

gandalf

FFS its not a paycut if they are off for the 12 days, its a paycut if they work 12 days for free! This is still a fudge.

LoLth

gandalf wrote: »

FFS its not a paycut if they are off for the 12 days, its a paycut if they work 12 days for free! This is still a fudge.

but the aim of the budget was to "reduce the public sector wage bill" not "punish the public sector". this way the PS are paid less but dont actually work the extra days so cant complain about a pay cut. no reason to strike.

I'm not saying its the best solution but as far as negotiations go, its not a terrible compromise from either side.

MayoForSam

It is understood that in education, for instance, there would be an option for the leave to be taken over a period of six years to minimise potential disruption.

So what happens next year when another billion is required in savings - extend the leave over 12 years? Crazy idea!

And who is going to work on Sundays if there is no incentive to do so? A percentage cut across standard and overtime rates would have at least been fair.

Of course all of the HSE managers and union officials don't work weekends, do they?

It's a total joke that it takes an unprecedented financial and budgetary crisis before they will agree to a 'transformation' within the PS. What was the point of benchmarking, where are the productivity increases since that debacle?

It would have been very interesting over the past week or so if cameras had been allowed in to cover the discussions, then we could have seen who is running the show. After al, it is our money they are spending and our children's futures they are putting in jeopardy.

I have a strong feeling that the backbenchers might have to get off their fat a$$es and reject this agreement if this country is to have any future.

A rep from the IMF this morning said they would prefer not to intervene here comparing us to a sick patient that needed treatment rather than a criminal who needed police intervention. Well, if you ask me, the present government has switched off the oxygen to the patient and the unions are about to perform an unplanned euthanasia.

seangal

gandalf wrote: »

FFS its not a paycut if they are off for the 12 days, its a paycut if they work 12 days for free! This is still a fudge.

Look if it is good enof for private sector to go on 4 day or 3 day week it is good enof for public sector to be offered short term hour
that is what is being offered I 12 day unpaid leave is almost 4 day week for 3 months
now get over it

frman

MayoForSam wrote: »

And who is going to work on Sundays if there is no incentive to do so?

Surely you get told what days you are going to work via a roster ?

When did selecting your own days of work come in ?

themont85

seangal wrote: »

Look if it is good enof for private sector to go on 4 day or 3 day week it is good enof for public sector to be offered short term hour
that is what is being offered I 12 day unpaid leave is almost 4 day week for 3 months
now get over it

So what are you saying that we don't need as many Public Servants? Should we introduce redundancies because we can get the same service as before without 5% of the workforce (at least)?

Businesses are taking 3/4 day weeks because there isn't the demand for the labour, has the demand for health/education gone down? The 12 day unpaid leave is a farce.

gandalf

LoLth wrote: »

but the aim of the budget was to "reduce the public sector wage bill" not "punish the public sector". this way the PS are paid less but dont actually work the extra days so cant complain about a pay cut. no reason to strike.

I'm not saying its the best solution but as far as negotiations go, its not a terrible compromise from either side.

Yes and thats what they should do is cut the public sector salaries with the people on higher wages taking bigger percentage cuts. This idea of 12 days unpaid leave punishes the lower paid workers more because they are closer to the breadline. It only makes sense when you realise that it is to protect those on higher incomes in the PS and the union leaders whose wages are linked with those salaries.

This 12 days leave is a pathetic last gasp of the bloatware of the Public Service to maintain their unrealistic wages and it should not be considered. All it will do is deliver less services to the tax paying public and punish their lower paid colleagues.

Riskymove

themont85 wrote: »

So what are you saying that we don't need as many Public Servants? Should we introduce redundancies because we can get the same service as before without 5% of the workforce (at least)?

Businesses are taking 3/4 day weeks because there isn't the demand for the labour, has the demand for health/education gone down? The 12 day unpaid leave is a farce.

Public service numbers have already been reduced (3,000 at the last CSO count) and will continue to do so under the current operations (i.e. no recruitment)

An Bord Snip Nua suggested 17,000 odd could be reduced over the next couple of years

this will form the basis for the future reduction in the cost of the public service

ntlbell

seangal wrote: »

Look if it is good enof for private sector to go on 4 day or 3 day week it is good enof for public sector to be offered short term hour
that is what is being offered I 12 day unpaid leave is almost 4 day week for 3 months
now get over it

What utter nonsense.

The reason you put people down to a 3/4 day work is you have less work to do.

the public sector's work load hasn't decreases, there's not LESS work to do.

so by reducing the amount of working hours there's the SAME amount of work and less hours to do it

what does this result in?

kids not being taught.

OAP's sitting longer in uncomfortable chairs in A&E

longer waiting lists for ops

do you see the difference?

get over it?

get clue.

MaceFace

Initial thoughts:

• Those on the front line are bearing the brunt of the cuts as these are the ones mainly impacted by the shift work
• Lower paid will be harder hit than the higher paid
• Services will be cut
• Previously agreed savings are being rolled into this agreement.

I am annoyed because the PS is a monopoly who giving a worse service for the same money just to protect their own self interests.

I am also annoyed as every private sector company implements changes, work practices, and productivity increases on a daily basis without the need for negotiation and agreement.

seangal

ntlbell wrote: »

What utter nonsense.

The reason you put people down to a 3/4 day work is you have less work to do.

the public sector's work load hasn't decreases, there's not LESS work to do.

so by reducing the amount of working hours there's the SAME amount of work and less hours to do it

what does this result in?

kids not being taught.

OAP's sitting longer in uncomfortable chairs in A&E

longer waiting lists for ops

do you see the difference?

get over it?

get clue.

But sure most people on here are asking for 30000 public sector to be let go and now you tell me that all that is going to happen if we lose about 5000 due to unpaid leave.
If this is bought in it will prepare the PS for increased productivity which will have to happen as we are heading for a smaller public sector staff level.
But if you give a paycut without agreement then one thing for sure all of the above will happen as PS staff will not give a F***

bamboozle

gandalf wrote: »

FFS its not a paycut if they are off for the 12 days, its a paycut if they work 12 days for free! This is still a fudge.

is this not a clear indication that if there is capicty to cuts staff days by 12% that there is a huge issue with productivity currently?

bamboozle

Riskymove wrote: »

Public service numbers have already been reduced (3,000 at the last CSO count) and will continue to do so under the current operations (i.e. no recruitment)

An Bord Snip Nua suggested 17,000 odd could be reduced over the next couple of years

this will form the basis for the future reduction in the cost of the public service

does anyone know what numbers of people are currently retiring from the public service on a yearly basis?

gandalf

bamboozle wrote: »

is this not a clear indication that if there is capicty to cuts staff days by 12% that there is a huge issue with productivity currently?

I am sure that there are divisions of the PS where the 12 day unpaid leave will not even be noticed if it occurs but there are an awful lot of others that are already stretched where it will cause a disastrous breakdown in already inadequate services to the taxpayer.