Vultures of the Irish Recession.

MI5

Anyone on here admit to being a vulture.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aQw1pm.Qz9sg&pos=14

markesmith

Don't have the money at the minute, but if I did I would. I don't see the problem with this, it's free-market capitalism. Building property to make 8-10 times the margin + building costs, what's the difference?

It's the system we live in.

ei.sdraob

as i keep saying this recession has a silver lining

beside cheaper cost of living

im myself building own house and availing of cheaper labour and costs

marco_polo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as i keep saying this recession has a silver lining

beside cheaper cost of living

im myself building own house and availing of cheaper labour and costs

It is only in force for four days and already you are planning on using the benefits of Lisbon and the 1.84 new an hour minimum wage. No wonder you were a yes man :pac:.


Shame on you sir

ei.sdraob

marco_polo wrote: »

It is only in force for four days and already you are planning on using the benefits of Lisbon and the 1.84 new an hour minimum wage. No wonder you were a yes man :pac:.


Shame on you sir

conscription sure can cure our unemployment problem

jmayo

Jeeze some bargains :rolleyes:

Ireland’s decade of breakneck economic growth made it one of the richest countries in the world, alongside Switzerland and Austria, and with that new wealth came unprecedented demand for faster cars, fancier homes and finer wines. The abrupt end to that boom has made the country prime ground for deal-hunters.

Big issue with this statement.
We were NEVER rich as a country, it was all someone elses money as is now perfectly well known.
Some people who were smart and some who were lucky through circumstance got rich.
Then a big chunk of the masses actually thought they were rich and signed their lives away on overpriced bricks and mortar, flash cars and designer what ever your having.
Some people who were downright greedy corrupt unethical gits got very rich as they massaged the system to con some of the above into spending the money they never had.

Others, myself included, just plodded along in disbelief at the orgy of spending.

Lets look at the great house bargains they mentioned.

In Newbridge, outside Dublin, all 45 two-bedroom apartments at Capella Court sold after agent HT Meagher O’Reilly slashed prices last month to about 125,000 euros from a high of 322,000 euros on instructions from a bank-appointed receiver.

Firstly apartments in Newbridge, a cummutter town how far from Dublin.
And they were apartments FFS.

Browne is also looking for 3 million euros for a block of 31 apartments in Mulhuddart, west Dublin. The complex had previously been valued at about twice that amount.

Yeah nice area with no transport links bar the bus and the car :rolleyes:

He’s selling homes in a third development, Rocky Valley Estate in Wicklow, for 800,000 euros, down from 1.8 million euros. Rocky Valley, about 20 miles south of Dublin, has views of the surrounding Wicklow mountains.

Overpriced area with no proper broadband even though only 20miles from city centre and alonw major transport artery N11. :rolleyes:

Complete cr** in that article making it soudn as if we are swimming in bargains. They are bargains compared with what the prices were 2/3 years ago but in realistic terms compared with other countries and what the average salary is they are still over priced.

The rest of the article seems to dwell on a wine merchant offloading high price wines.
Wippeee doo.

Gurgle

marco_polo wrote: »

It is only in force for four days and already you are planning on using the benefits of Lisbon and the 1.84 new an hour minimum wage.

Are people in general (and you in particular) under the impression that minimum wage in Ireland has been reduced?

Tipp Man

A retired school teacher buying champagne by the case, oh to have a defined benifit pension:D

marco_polo

Gurgle wrote: »

Are people in general (and you in particular) under the impression that minimum wage in Ireland has been reduced?

I certainly hope not.

P. Breathnach

Tipp Man wrote: »

A retired school teacher buying champagne by the case, oh to have a defined benifit pension:D

Private sector people, on the other hand, were buying it at its previous price.

Tipp Man

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Private sector people, on the other hand, were buying it at its previous price.

And now we're buying none, hence the liquidation

gandalf

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Private sector people, on the other hand, were buying it at its previous price.

Actually this is the first year I have ever bought Champagne by the case, then again I was getting married.

Then again it was in France and was half the price of buying here.....

ei.sdraob

gandalf wrote: »

Actually this is the first year I have ever bought Champagne by the case, then again I was getting married.

Then again it was in France and was half the price of buying here.....

go to the polish/russian shops, they have stuff thats called "Champagne" but made in Ukraine or something

great value and great taste

gandalf

Feck that the missus is French she'd kill me if I bought the fake stuff

Diarmuid

The liquidator of Dublin wine importer Parbind is selling boxes of six bottles of Bernard Remy rosé champagne for 132 euros ($199), down from the original tag of 205 euros. Elsewhere,

You are still getting screwed.
It seems the Irish can't be trusted with alcohol, so we get our government make it unaffordable for us.:rolleyes: Oh well, an off season boat trip and an empty car will do for me.

P. Breathnach

gandalf wrote: »

Actually this is the first year I have ever bought Champagne by the case, then again I was getting married.

Then again it was in France and was half the price of buying here.....

I hope the marriage is going well.

I'm lucky in not really liking Champagne -- well, not enough to pay premium prices. There are some very good dry white bubblies that can be bought at a much more affordable price. I suspect that the average Irish Champagne drinker couldn't tell the difference. That's how to ride out the recession: drink bubbly, but don't look at the label.

Diarmuid

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'm lucky in not really liking Champagne -- well, not enough to pay premium prices. There are some very good dry white bubblies that can be bought at a much more affordable price. I suspect that the average Irish Champagne drinker couldn't tell the difference. That's how to ride out the recession: drink bubbly, but don't look at the label.

True. A decent proscecco (which you can pick up in Italy for €5) would easily pass the pepsi-coke test for most people

thebman

Wish I had the money

I don't see the problem with buying what others can't afford. If people didn't buy the stuff they can't afford to keep, they'd be in even bigger trouble.

Doing them a favor.

Flamed Diving

jmayo wrote: »

Big issue with this statement.

The decade they refer to would be the 1990s. Nothing but solid growth during that period. That is the economic miracle people refer to, the asset/debt bubble during the 00s was the predictable end to it all. Happens all the time.

Absurdum

Diarmuid wrote: »

You are still getting screwed.
It seems the Irish can't be trusted with alcohol, so we get our government make it unaffordable for us.:rolleyes: Oh well, an off season boat trip and an empty car will do for me.

and if they think that

The company held a sale of 200 cars in October, including a silver 2006 Mercedes C200 CDI, which sold for 17,500 euros, about 20 percent less than the usual retail price, according to the auctioneer.

is a bargain, they don't know a whole lot

lazy journalism imo

Dannyboy83

ei.sdraob wrote: »

go to the polish/russian shops, they have stuff thats called "Champagne" but made in Ukraine or something

great value and great taste

My gf says its basically cheap white wine with Gas pumped into it, like the soda streams we used to have here years ago.
The reason people in Eastern Europe drink it, is because they can't afford champagne themselves.

That article was pure tripe btw.
A lot of us can't even afford the pseudo-champagne
(Not that I even care, as I don't drink alcohol, but I love whine;))

murphaph

ei.sdraob wrote: »

go to the polish/russian shops, they have stuff thats called "Champagne" but made in Ukraine or something

great value and great taste

Funniest post in ages, even if you were deadly serious

I'm no brand snob, but Ukrainian champagne cracked me up.

seclachi

What a pile of bull, vultures are scavengers, I would hardly call buying a merc at a cheap (but yet not affordable to the average punter) scavenging. I dont particularly feel sorry for anybody who got repossessed of crates of champagne or mercs, there more than likely businesses anyway.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Bargains included a box of 12 bottles of Pinot Grigio white wine reduced by 60 percent to 73 euros.

Whoever has worked in the licenced trade should know that this ain't no bargain really - Pinot Grigiot is essentially a bogstandard mass-produced French white that you can get anywhere that is remotely respectable.

The company held a sale of 200 cars in October, including a silver 2006 Mercedes C200 CDI, which sold for 17,500 euros, about 20 percent less than the usual retail price

Again, boo-frickety-hoo - Irish people have trouble offloading bogstandard diesel Merc saloons in time of recession... this is a total non-story.

jmayo

gandalf wrote: »

Actually this is the first year I have ever bought Champagne by the case, then again I was getting married.

Then again it was in France and was half the price of buying here.....

Shame on you, you unpatriotic git :mad:
And supporting the French even worse :mad::mad::mad:

You should buy at twice the price at home.

Flamed Diving wrote: »

The decade they refer to would be the 1990s. Nothing but solid growth during that period. That is the economic miracle people refer to, the asset/debt bubble during the 00s was the predictable end to it all. Happens all the time.

Oh yes the real celtic tiger.
But it was only in this decade that we really started being trumptied as the very rich nation, what with every Tom, Dick and Mary started flashing their wealth around with multiple rental lets, pads in Bulgaria and Spain, together with the him and hers BMWs.

Flamed Diving

jmayo wrote: »

Oh yes the real celtic tiger.
But it was only in this decade that we really started being trumptied as the very rich nation, what with every Tom, Dick and Mary started flashing their wealth around with multiple rental lets, pads in Bulgaria and Spain, together with the him and hers BMWs.

Data from Penn World Tables.

This is Irish GDP per Capita relative to the US, in percentage terms over the last fifty years or so.

Note how we had already reached the advanced nation group of GDP per capita before the 00s, and the rise had begun to flatten throughout that decade. This rise was widely acknowledged by the media at the time, although they seemed to miss the dip somehow...

http://news.google.ie/archivesearch?um=1&cf=all&ned=en_ie&hl=en&q=ireland+economy&cf=all&sugg=d&sa=N&lnav=d3&as_ldate=1990&as_hdate=1998&ldrange=1980,1989&hdrange=1999,2009

The 00s decade was seen as a credit splurge by anyone who paid attention.

nesf

GDP per worker and GDP per hour worked make the doldrums of post-2001 even more apparent.






As you can see, there was a substantial drop in gains per worker post 2001 versus the previous decade. A lot of our post 2001 growth was fueled by immigration rather than productivity gains versus the 90s where productivity gains (i.e. GDP per worker increases) played a much stronger role.





Expressing it as GDP/hour makes it even more apparent. Our gains in productivity per hour worked were nothing as good as our gains per worker or per capita!

Edit: I should explain this better for non-economist types. What you can see here is periods of strong productivity* growth while the country wasn't in a boom. We gained a lot of productivity before the Celtic Tiger. The shift from lower value to higher value work was happening in the 70s and 80s, the issue was not having enough jobs not how good those jobs were! There were some productivity gains of note pre-2001 on a per worker basis but per-hour worked these diminished quite a bit (i.e. during the Celtic Tiger years we mostly boosted wealth generation per worker by working more hours rather than working "smarter"). In terms of post-2001, these wealth gains per worker diminished substantially as fewer and fewer "Intel" type jobs were being created and most immigrants were going into construction and retail which generate substantially less wealth per person.

In short: The idea that we were in the doldrums pre-92 is a half-truth. We weren't generating enough jobs yes, but we made substantial productivity gains as people moved from agriculture to manufacturing and this lay the foundations for the growth seen during the Tiger years.

*Productivity in this context refers to either GDP per worker or GDP per hour. Wealth gain refers to GDP growth. Both of these definitions can be questioned but they are useful.

parsi

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

(Not that I even care, as I don't drink alcohol, but I love whine;))

I usually disagree with your posts but that made me smile !

A decent bubbly is Aldis Cremant de Jura - not as cheap as that magnificent Ukrainian stuff mentioned previously but quite drinkable for the once a month that one can afford a bottle.