BIFFO is the cleverest and mot cunning of them all.

Rujib1

Had to lugh at the sight of BIFFO reading out the statement this evening at the press conference, with GARLIC standing over him like a prison guard.
Bet if BIFFO tried to whimper out of it, GARLIC would have given him a right clatter across the ear
Brilliant. Aunty Mary at home in Athhlone, flapping her skirts with delight and baby brother Connor, trying his best to swallow a whole garlic without chewing, so he might one day get the finance job, when GARLIC moves upstairs.

Blowfish

seclachi wrote: »

Seems to me like another short term gain, the unions wont talk again if they feel there just being baited, more over, they`ll just try and block any reforms to the best of there ability out of spite.

Actually I see it as the opposite being true. The government will now be able to get both the direct wage cut they originally wanted and can now also push to completely reform the public service to make it more efficient.

Politics is all about one thing, popularity. What the government fears from strikes isn't actually anything to do with the strikes themselves, but how the strikes affect their support in the general public. They have now learnt that there's a large section of the general public (in my own experience, it's in the majority at this point) that actually want the cuts to go ahead and want an efficient PS. Because of this, the PS unions have just shot themselves in the foot by effectively saying 'hey, we can work less hours and still get just as much work done'. Support for PS/PS Unions seems to be at an all time low.

With that being the general feeling, if in 6 months time Biffo says 'ok, we've cut the wages of the PS, we're now going to make it more efficient', the PS unions are going to get little sympathy from the public if they start bitching and moaning about it. Biffo will get to plough ahead regardless.

ajc100

jenzz wrote: »

Well if we have no schools, police stations, hospitals, doctors, nurses etc etc for a week if they call an all out strike are we not at a stand still. Parents taking days off work to mind kids etc etc. Just my iopinion anyone. I just feel we are heading into murky waters. I agree reduce deficit. I agree to standing up & being heard. But I agree to fairness. The salarys our politicians are on, The amount of money wasted in this country. Surely cut the waste & save a few bob.......

Not as bad a standstill as it would have been 2 years ago, there is enough people out of work now to look after everything.
Teachers on strike:
Everyone knows someone unemployed, we might even make a few bob child minding!
Guards on strike:
No break ins as were all on strike or unemployed, so all ways someone home.
Hospital staff:
The waiting lists or health service wont get any worse with a work to rule or with emergency cover only.

As for cutting waste...

Your bins wont get collected in an all out strike..... they used to get collected every week but are collected maybe every 2 weeks??? Do they use half the staff now?

Tax office.... How much is the tax take down??? Any other company with a dip in revenue would be (have been) slashing staff numbers.

I am not a FF fan but Biffo may well have done what took Thatcher a whole year to do in 1984-85, break the unions once and for all.
I have serious doubts weather it was his initial intention, but he got blamed for the weather last week so we may give him some credit for this.

Interesting time ahead indeed.

Daithinski

While I am glad with todays result, I don't think its particularily good negotiation on Brian Clowen's part.

He didn't actually negotiate. He listened to the unions, and then just dictated his terms. He won't have done himself any favours by publicly humiliating the unions and making them look like idiots.

Good negotiation is where you can convince the other side to go along with you. What he did sounds more like bully boy tactics tbh. He couldn't get them to agree to his terms, so he just decreed what would be. Why bother with the last two weeks of shíte talk?

Why the pretence? Well, FF are good politicians, their actions inflamed public opinion and then they step in and look like the heroes who are saving the economy by facing down the unions. While we are all distracted by this circus and people are admiring lenihan and clowen all their other fúck ups are pushed into the background.

Pay needed to be cut but don't be fooled into thinking that FF are good negotiators. However, they are good politicians (as in getting votes, not actually good at running a country) and spin doctors.

gerry28

Daithinski wrote: »

While I am glad with todays result, I don't think its particularily good negotiation on Brian Clowen's part.

He didn't actually negotiate. He listened to the unions, and then just dictated his terms. He won't have done himself any favours by publicly humiliating the unions and making them look like idiots.

Good negotiation is where you can convince the other side to go along with you. What he did sounds more like bully boy tactics tbh. He couldn't get them to agree to his terms, so he just decreed what would be. Why bother with the last two weeks of shíte talk? Why the pretence?

Pay needed to be cut but don't be fooled into thinking that FF are good negotiators.

Its a betrayal of sorts. He was obviously telling the unions something concrete for them to be out telling the media a deal was close... only to pull the rug then.

RealityCheck

gerry28 wrote: »

Its a betrayal of sorts. He was obviously telling the unions something concrete for them to be out telling the media a deal was close... only to pull the rug then.

More likely a case of the unions trying to cling on to something that was'nt there so they could save face and make a reason to prevent the strike on Thursday because they have no overall public support. Calling off the strike in the manner they did without concrete agreement comes across as very weak. This will hurt the unions no end.

Head The Wall

Paulzx wrote: »

However there will know be absolutely no trust between the unions and government. The future reforms they will look for will now be met with huge suspicion.My own workplace over the last 10 years took on huge changes and additional skills and roles. This obviously has not been the same everywhere.

The fun and games will start when the new reform options are being negotiated in an atmosphere of complete mistrust after todays episode

Why should they look for reforms, do people forget who their boss is. The govt can change the laws so the PS can be sacked. They then enforce change and if it's not followed it's P45 time

Paulzx

Head The Wall wrote: »

Why should they look for reforms, do people forget who their boss is. The govt can change the laws so the PS can be sacked. They then enforce change and if it's not followed it's P45 time

Yup. They're going to sack 300,000 people and have them replaced tomorrow. Would ya get a grip.

Excuse me while a touch the forelock to the "boss"

If you really believe that its as simple as just handing out p45's to all and sundry you need your head examined

seclachi

ajc100 wrote: »

Your bins wont get collected in an all out strike..... they used to get collected every week but are collected maybe every 2 weeks??? Do they use half the staff now?



I am not a FF fan but Biffo may well have done what took Thatcher a whole year to do in 1984-85, break the unions once and for all.
I have serious doubts weather it was his initial intention, but he got blamed for the weather last week so we may give him some credit for this.

Bin collection is the least anybodys worries, any place barely out side of a major city has to use a fecking private company anyway.

I doubt the unions back is broken, I can easily forsee then making life hell for the government, and there wont be any easy negotiations after biffos stunt. The only thing is, there support is pretty weak at minute, the public pretty much revile the public service unions at the minute, and I`m sure theres plenty of frontline workers who werent impressed by the 12 day cut, it was a flat paycut and more than likely a huge workload increase for them, where as any slackers on decent pay would be delighted to have the break.

After enough cuts though the public mood could swing, and if the shoes on the other foot the unions arent going to forget today in a hurry.

cheekita

Well how could the government justify taking 10 days off everyone in the public sector?? Thats 10 days less PRSI and Tax for EVERYBODY in the public sector (250,000) people??? HAHA what a gimmick, Cowen is there thinking I got what i want,lol. But I wonder does this 6% include Ministers and Senators and TDs? Oh and the MEPs? Or is it all a load of bull to hit the poor feckers in society again?

K-9

cheekita wrote: »

Well how could the government justify taking 10 days off everyone in the public sector?? Thats 10 days less PRSI and Tax for EVERYBODY in the public sector (250,000) people??? HAHA what a gimmick, Cowen is there thinking I got what i want,lol. But I wonder does this 6% include Ministers and Senators and TDs? Oh and the MEPs? Or is it all a load of bull to hit the poor feckers in society again?

10% Less pay means maybe we'll gain 5% overall. We pay €20 Billion, taxes etc. are say €8 Billion.

Cut pay by 10%, pay is down €2 Billion, tax revenue down 800 Million. Yep, add VAT etc,, but overall its a saving.

Think about cutting private sector pay in the exact same way.

Pay €40,000 a year, taxes say €7,000. Cut pay, €36,000, taxes, €5,500.

ronbyrne2005

K-9 wrote: »

10% Less pay means maybe we'll gain 5% overall. We pay €20 Billion, taxes etc. are say €8 Billion.

Cut pay by 10%, pay is down €2 Billion, tax revenue down 800 Million. Yep, add VAT etc,, but overall its a saving.

Think about cutting private sector pay in the exact same way.

Pay €40,000 a year, taxes say €7,000. Cut pay, €36,000, taxes, €5,500.

Yeah, public sector workers are net recipients from government. Someone say getting paid 40k and say pays 8k in income tax is a net cost of 32k to government.

Does anyone have know if the cost of public sector paybill of 20billion is net cost to exchequer?

cheekita

BS! The government knew it was gonna be rejected,made a fool out of people by putting it in the public eye!The cost of PRSI and Tax to them would have been more than 6% so they just got what they wanted. Imagine 10 days less PRSI and Tax? Sure that was just foolish.Even if they said,right ye are getting 12 days less holidays,they were shooting themselves in the foot. Everybody in the public sector pays PRSI and Tax on their holidays as does everybody in the private sector.

gally74

bravo brian,

me thinks garlic is behind all this,

the lenihan's day will come

this country does have a chance after all

Daithinski

gally74 wrote: »

bravo brian,

me thinks garlic is behind all this,

the lenihan's day will come

this country does have a chance after all

We had our chance, during the last 15 years. FF blew this majestically.

Now we are congratulating them for cutting pay? Get a grip.

I hope lenihans day does come. But not in the way you mean.

Bravo brian me arsé.

ei.sdraob

hes not cunning at all

Gordon Brown devalued the pound by 30%, making EVERYONE in UK 30% poorer in short time

now compare that to this bull**** over a 6%

Darragh29

There is nothing clever or cunnng about this man at all. He was at a press conference with Eamon Ryan this week and he was still sh*teing on about this 12 day unpaid leave rubbish and that he thought it could form the central part of a paycut deal, I saw Eamon Ryan slouch back in his chair and run his hands through his hair, he looked like he was going to roar at Cowen.

The only reason this got knocked on the head yesterday is because I'd say Cowen was taken aside and told if he proceeded with this, he may as well go out and tell everyone he was calling a general election because the Green's wouldn't be running with such absolute and utter rubbish...

deadhead13

I think the op is giving Biffo far to much credit. Every political correspondent and talking head I have heard, or read, since the talks collapsed yesterday have claimed that Cowen position has been weakened by his handling of the whole affair. The percieved wisdom is he caved in to pressure from from Brian Lenihan and the ff backbenchers. I don't if this is true or not but if Cowen was so cunning he wouldn't now be the medias fall guy, someone else would.

Drumpot

Darragh29 wrote: »

There is nothing clever or cunnng about this man at all. He was at a press conference with Eamon Ryan this week and he was still sh*teing on about this 12 day unpaid leave rubbish and that he thought it could form the central part of a paycut deal, I saw Eamon Ryan slouch back in his chair and run his hands through his hair, he looked like he was going to roar at Cowen.

The only reason this got knocked on the head yesterday is because I'd say Cowen was taken aside and told if he proceeded with this, he may as well go out and tell everyone he was calling a general election because the Green's wouldn't be running with such absolute and utter rubbish...

The Green's ?

I think crediting the greens with this U-Turn is no more credible an explanation then saying Biffo planned the whole thing . .

I would give the credit sooner to Lenihan putting his foot down, sooner then give the greens the credit on this one . . The Greens dont want an election anymore then FF do . .

gerry28

Blowfish wrote: »

and can now also push to completely reform the public service to make it more efficient.

I can't see how they will get reform with the unions feeling a little shafted and the PS workers getting their wages cut for a second time in 12 months.

Darragh29

Drumpot wrote: »

The Green's ?

I think crediting the greens with this U-Turn is no more credible an explanation then saying Biffo planned the whole thing . .

I would give the credit sooner to Lenihan putting his foot down, sooner then give the greens the credit on this one . . The Greens dont want an election anymore then FF do . .

I couldn't agree more but to credit Cowen with it is just madness, a man who I'd say has to get someone to dress him in the morning he's that useless...

Jesus Christ, a solicitor running the country, could you think of anything more f*cking dangerous???

Paulzx

Darragh29 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, a solicitor running the country, could you think of anything more f*cking dangerous???

An estate agent?:D:D:D

Drumpot

Darragh29 wrote: »

I couldn't agree more but to credit Cowen with it is just madness, a man who I'd say has to get someone to dress him in the morning he's that useless...

Your choice of phrase (he needs to be dressed in the morning) is funny as it isnt far from the truth from what I hear . . .

Drumpot

Paulzx wrote: »

An estate agent?:D:D:D

Dont forget his banking backround . . .

thebman

gerry28 wrote: »

I can't see how they will get reform with the unions feeling a little shafted and the PS workers getting their wages cut for a second time in 12 months.

Brute Force

Blowfish

thebman wrote: »

Brute Force

Exactly. The PS unions really don't have a lot of support outside of the PS and have a dissenting group even within the PS. If they really wanted to, the government could pretty much ignore them and force through any changes they wanted.

super_furry

Once again the rubes are taken in by the bait and switch. Nevermind that Fianna Fail are directly responsible for the state of this country and it's finances or that they spunked away our biggest boom ever. Sure they're a grand bunch of lads for taking on dem commies!

What's even more depressing is that you lot will vote them back in. Again.

irish_bob

Drumpot wrote: »

The Green's ?

I think crediting the greens with this U-Turn is no more credible an explanation then saying Biffo planned the whole thing . .

I would give the credit sooner to Lenihan putting his foot down, sooner then give the greens the credit on this one . . The Greens dont want an election anymore then FF do . .

i doubt the greens had anything to do with cowen rowing back , the greens like thier voters are wishy washy when it comes to the public sector , if anything they would be next to labour in thier devotion to them

irish_bob

Blowfish wrote: »

Exactly. The PS unions really don't have a lot of support outside of the PS and have a dissenting group even within the PS. If they really wanted to, the government could pretty much ignore them and force through any changes they wanted.

not the fianna fail way

irish_bob

super_furry wrote: »

Once again the rubes are taken in by the bait and switch. Nevermind that Fianna Fail are directly responsible for the state of this country and it's finances or that they spunked away our biggest boom ever. Sure they're a grand bunch of lads for taking on dem commies!

What's even more depressing is that you lot will vote them back in. Again.

ahhh , the dumb country mice were misled into believing this 12 day thingy was a stinker by the right wing media , union heads have been saying as much on radio all weekend

do unions attend intensive courses on how to be condescending ???