VAT being charged for goods at border of NI

snaps

Did i hear right on the radio today that Ireland were thinking of charging cross border shoppers VAT on goods they buy up North when they return from their shopping expedition?

Surely that can never happen as NI is an EU state?

seamus

No, they can't. However customs can search vehicles for cigarettes and alcohol and apply the relevant duties because tobacco and alcohol above a certain amount are exempt from the free movement of goods.

snaps

And what is the amount you can buy:D

EKRIUQ

snaps wrote: »

And what is the amount you can buy:D

There are no limits on what you can buy and take with you when you travel between EU countries, as long as it is for personal use and not for resale. Taxes (VAT and excise duties) are included in the price you pay and no further payment of tax can be due in any other EU country.

seamus

Far less than what a lot of people are buying:
Goods|Maximum quantity allowed
Cigarettes|800
Cigarillos|400
Cigars|200
Smoking tobacco|1 kg
Spirits (whiskey, vodka, gin, etc.)|10 litres
Intermediate Products (e.g. sherry, port, etc., excluding sparkling wine)|20 litres
Wine (only 60 litres of sparkling wine allowed)|90 litres
Beer|110 litres

Since most people people seem to do a "run" up North every 6 or 8 weeks, then most people probably won't fall foul of the cigarette or cigar numbers, but I can see a big problem with spirits and Beer - people buy large quantities in order to justify the trip.

The limit is roughly 13 bottles of vodka and 9 crates of beer. Sounds like a lot, but many people do big runs like this for friends and family, in a van.

Revenue/Customs have the power to stop, question and search you if they believe that you are carrying more than the permissible amounts.

As EKRIUQ points out though, if you can satisfy customs that these are for your personal use and not for resale or supply, no duty is payable.

snaps

Ok, I'm sure i heard on a news bulletin today that was 1 option the government were looking into to try and regain some revenue that's heading north?

snaps

Well i for one buy a lot more beer and spirits than that allowance when i go up! But i suppose that's per person so if there is 2 of you in a car you can double that figure!

seamus

I doubt the tax take would be very significant - the amount of tax actually leaving the country isn't that significant in the grand scheme of things. I think they estimated that about 150m tax revenue is being lost to shops up north, however only a small amount of that would be due from retailers doing their shopping, the rest is Joe Soaps doing nothing wrong, so no duty is otherwise payable.

However, what they can do is make the situation unbearable and routinely stop and question vehicles coming into the south such that it will take you hours to get through the revenue checkpoints and people will be discouraged to make the trip.

slimjimmc

snaps wrote: »

Well i for one buy a lot more beer and spirits than that allowance when i go up! But i suppose that's per person so if there is 2 of you in a car you can double that figure!

You may still be ok. The allowances quoted above are not a limit, they're only the maximum a single person can bring in without attracting interest from Customs. You can bring in more than the allowance so long as you can demonstrate it's for personal use only.

OP, VAT can only be charged on intra-EU imports if VAT was not already paid in the country of origin. If you buy a TV in Belfast VAT-free then you would be liable for Irish VAT at point of entry. If you buy same TV incl. UK VAT then you can't be charged Irish VAT on entry.

mehmeh12

slimjimmc wrote: »

You may still be ok. The allowances quoted above are not a limit, they're only the maximum a single person can bring in without attracting interest from Customs. You can bring in more than the allowance so long as you can demonstrate it's for personal use only.

OP, VAT can only be charged on intra-EU imports if VAT was not already paid in the country of origin. If you buy a TV in Belfast VAT-free then you would be liable for Irish VAT at point of entry. If you buy same TV incl. UK VAT then you can't be charged Irish VAT on entry.

When you buy things online say from amazon uk that are to be sent to dublin, what vat rate are you paying, irish or british?

slimjimmc

mehmeh12 wrote: »

When you buy things online say from amazon uk that are to be sent to dublin, what vat rate are you paying, irish or british?

That would come under distance selling rules. Basically if Amazon sell less than €100k into Ireland each year, they can choose to charge either UK VAT or Irish VAT. If they sell more than €100k they must charge Irish VAT. If Ireland can show market distortion from the €100k limit it can reduce it to €35k.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Value_Added_Tax#Distance_sales

With Amazon I'd expect you're paying Irish VAT

JohnC.

With Amazon UK you are definitely paying the Irish VAT rate. It changes after you have logged into your account during the ordering process if you have an Irish address.

penexpers

slimjimmc wrote: »

With Amazon I'd expect you're paying Irish VAT

Correct it is Irish VAT and has been for a long time.

consultech

seamus wrote: »

However, what they can do is make the situation unbearable and routinely stop and question vehicles coming into the south such that it will take you hours to get through the revenue checkpoints and people will be discouraged to make the trip.

Let's hope so anyway. Our economy is on it's fuckin knees, partly in thanks to the sheer irresponsible greed being shown by the border-hoppers, all for the sake of a few hundred quid a year.

super_furry

consultech wrote: »

Let's hope so anyway. Our economy is on it's fuckin knees, partly in thanks to the sheer irresponsible greed being shown by the border-hoppers, all for the sake of a few hundred quid a year.

Indeed. It's your patriotic duty to be ripped off!

Supraman

consultech wrote: »

Let's hope so anyway. Our economy is on it's fuckin knees, partly in thanks to the sheer irresponsible greed being shown by the border-hoppers, all for the sake of a few hundred quid a year.

Border hoppers : Are you ignorant ?

I'm living in Cork so I have not justified a trip to the north for shopping. However if I lived within an hour to 90 mins of the border I'd be up there on a very regular basis. People are struggling to make ends meet, can barely afford to buy nappies for their children or put food in their mouths.

Between banks and the govt, the country has had it's pockets emptied. I for one will spending every penny I have as shrewdly as possible

You've an awful cheek in my opinion describing people like you have. Many folks have creamed it here for years, the customer was consistently ripped off. Now that people are strugging of course cash is king and they will follow the source of the best deal possible.

consultech

Edit; not bothered, wrong forum.

Supraman

consultech wrote: »

Hi all,



I recently availed of AE's (www.ae.com) Thanksgiving Day offer of 25% off my full order, which I used in conjunction with their regular on-site discount offers of "buy one, get 50% off" etc. I ordered 10 items, all of which were marked as "in stock" when I was placing my order.



I attempted to pay for the order with my credit card, but it was declined, so I topped up a 3v card and made the order that way. They have "pre-authorized" (as they put it) the full $ amount for the 10 items.



I received an email 3 days later telling me that part of my order had shipped. I later received an email telling me that there was 4 items that were not in stock. Another email arrived yesterday inviting me to order them now they are in stock again, at full price, and incurring a further $50 flat shipping fee. I called them for 15 minutes tonight outraged at this, to hear their claims that they are only holding the full amount, but that they will refund the difference for the items that were not delivered once the order ships. The order shipped 3 days ago, and I've heard nothing.



I don't think it's any coincidence that it's the 4 items that were subject to the greatest discounts that were "not in stock", despite me originally being told they were. They've essentially cut all the value out of the order by cancelling all the items I received a discount on, and want me to pay full whack+shipping to re-order them.





What are my options here? They are an American-based company so I don't know what channels to go through to register a consumer-law based grievance.



Any help very much appreciated.

Your a gas man on about border hoppers. Last time I checked the American based company you've mentioned are probably still based in America and not Ireland the wonderful land where you love to spend every cent you earn of your salary. Or is it just a small bit you spend elsewhere to save a few quid . Either way try look relevant next time you decide to rant.

consultech

Supraman wrote: »

Your a gas man on about border hoppers. Last time I checked the American based company you've mentioned are probably still based in America and not Ireland the wonderful land where you love to spend every cent you earn of your salary. Or is it just a small bit you spend elsewhere to save a few quid . Either way try look relevant next time you decide to rant.

Customs, VAT.

Supraman

consultech wrote: »

Customs, VAT.

Care to elaborate ?

consultech

consultech wrote: »

Customs, VAT.

... and there's a difference between spending a few quid on clothes you happen to like and can't get over here, and spending your entire fuckin salary up North every 3-4 weeks.

consultech

Supraman wrote: »

Care to elaborate ?

If you don't know what customs and VAT are, and how they pertain to the point you're trying to make; then no, I don't really care to. Off to bed instead (I bought it here in Dublin btw).

Supraman

consultech wrote: »

... and there's a difference between spending a few quid on clothes you happen to like and can't get over here, and spending your entire fuckin salary up North every 3-4 weeks.

I just wouldnt go insulting the people who because of their situation. If it's so wrong you should abide completely by your own principles.

You're in the same boat yourself sending money out of the country , also out of the E.U by the way which means your money is doing absolutely nothing to "help us". Just because it's spending to a lesser degree means nothing. Principle is your doing the same as those you castigate.

Nothing personal against you as I'm prone to heading to the states myself and have been in New York 6 of the previous 7 years so I know where your coming from on the retail side of things.

consultech wrote: »

If you don't know what customs and VAT are, and how they pertain to the point you're trying to make; then no, I don't really care to. Off to bed instead (I bought it here in Dublin btw).

Ah yes. Enjoy your sleep. I do know what vat and customs are. I wanted you to elaborate on why those were mentioned as reasons for buying in the states.

consultech

Supraman wrote: »

I just wouldnt go insulting the people who because of their situation. If it's so wrong you should abide completely by your own principles.

You're in the same boat yourself sending money out of the country , also out of the E.U by the way which means your money is doing absolutely nothing to "help us". Just because it's spending to a lesser degree means nothing. Principle is your doing the same as those you castigate.

Nothing personal against you as I'm prone to heading to the states myself and have been in New York 6 of the previous 7 years so I know where your coming from on the retail side of things.



Ah yes. Enjoy your sleep. I do know what vat and customs are. I wanted you to elaborate on why those were mentioned as reasons for buying in the states.

If I spend €300 with an American online retailer, I have to pay €100 to our government to bring those purchases into the country. If you spend €300 in Newry; how much are you contributing to our state coffers as a result?

Supraman

consultech wrote: »

If I spend €300 with an American online retailer, I have to pay €100 to our government to bring those purchases into the country. If you spend €300 in Newry; how much are you contributing to our state coffers as a result?

I thought you were gone to sleep

Awww you must have had the kettle on did you ?


In response : Do you declare each item bought from America ? If so fair play and kudos to you.

If you spend 300 euro in Dublin how much goes towards state coffers, Irish jobs etc.

dudara

consultech wrote:

Let's hope so anyway. Our economy is on it's ****in knees, partly in thanks to the sheer irresponsible greed being shown by the border-hoppers, all for the sake of a few hundred quid a year.

I think that the cross-border shopping has to be one of the leasy influential factors on the Irish economy. Serious financial mismanagement at the highest levels has to be the main focus, not some poor family trying to save a few quid on nappies.

Paulw

consultech wrote: »

If you spend €300 in Newry; how much are you contributing to our state coffers as a result?

We go to Newry from time to time. A lot of what we buy up there would be alcohol - Guinness, Carlsberg, etc. All of which is actually produced in Ireland, and shipped north. It's still stupidly cheaper to buy in in NI than in Dublin (for a product produced in Ireland).

It's more the fault of the Govt that people are forced to go north to make savings. A lot of the savings are due to the difference in the VAT rate.

People will do what they need to, to make the most of the little money they have, especially when so many have had pay cuts or unemployment in their family.

Rev. Kitchen

consultech wrote: »

Let's hope so anyway. Our economy is on it's fuckin knees, partly in thanks to the sheer irresponsible greed being shown by the border-hoppers, all for the sake of a few hundred quid a year.

No our economy is on its knees due to corporate greed from multinationals skipping out on Ireland for cheaper labour.

Because we have a parish mentality when it comes to goverment and will elect the guy that builds a swimming pool in our local town rather than looking at the bigger picture and electing someone that can do his job.

But people mainly skip over the border because of something in the industry called the "thick paddy tax" where shops add sometimes 40% onto the cost of goods sold in Ireland.

It amazes me when shops add massive margins to good to rip us off then blame us for not buying it !!

I dont think the goverment have any right to charge VAT at the border they made such a song and dance about being part of europe and voting yes to Lisbon treaty which enshrines the free movement of people and goods around europe. Last time i checked NI was in the EU.

And anyway all those cars heading up north buy petrol in the South and we pay massive amounts of tax on that too. I wonder is that factored into to their losses ?

consultech

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

No our economy is on its knees due to corporate greed from multinationals skipping out on Ireland for cheaper labour.

I originally said "partly in thanks" to cross-border shopping. Perhaps I should've worded my post: "Our economy is still on it's knees, partly in thanks...". Irrespective of what the most mitigating factors are for the state of our economy - whether that be poor financial management, corruption, or migration of multinational industry - you're an idiot if you think siphoning billions of Euro out of our economy is doing anything but perpetuating the problem.

All I'm saying is: Tens of thousands of job losses in the retail sector (and others) in the last 18 months speak for themselves. Although not being the sole culprit; you can't ignore cross-border shopping as a huge catalyst in this.

The bottom line is: This country needs to tighten it's belt, but no-one is willing to. The celtic tiger babies of this generation simply don't know how. Everyone wants to have their gourmet cake, and eat it too. Name one European country who, as a people, have met economic collapse head-on with bulk purchasing of luxury goods (that they don't need) outside of their borders, or demonstrations for higher pay in a time of economic collapse? "Pulling together and making sacrifices in the name of the greater economic good" is not a phrase in the vocab of today's Irish population. - It's a joke.

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

And anyway all those cars heading up north buy petrol in the South and we pay massive amounts of tax on that too. I wonder is that factored into to their losses ?

It was actually the following post that prompted me to even weigh in to this thread in the first place:

seamus wrote: »

many people do big runs like this for friends and family, in a van.

It's like a double slap in the face, and basically the reason I would welcome enforceable per-person customs quotas. Don't be naive enough to think that - in this country of scorched-earth policy consumers - people aren't coining it out of re-selling northern goods in the south. I'll even give you a commercial example: If you've drank a bottle of beer, or ordered a shot in a nightclub in the last year; the bottle from which it came quite possibly had the remains of a mysterious ripped sticker on it's neck.

dudara wrote: »

...not some poor family trying to save a few quid on nappies.

Yeah but you know that's not what I'm talking about. Any customs checks have aboslutely no monetary implications for these groups, anyway.

Paulw

consultech wrote: »

All I'm saying is: Tens of thousands of job losses in the retail sector (and others) in the last 18 months speak for themselves. Although not being the sole culprit; you can't ignore cross-border shopping as a huge catalyst in this.

Why are people doing it?

Look at prices in the ROI. You can generally buy the exact same item for much cheaper in NI.

Why?

Not only is it to do with the VAT rate down here being higher, but it's also to do with the profit margin that Irish stores add. These tend to be higher than the same in NI.

It's a free economy. For many years we were advised to shop around, but now that we do, we're being labelled as being unpatriotic.

Don't blame the shopper, blame the shops.

dudara

The government cannot charge V.A.T. on goods across the border from the North, IF V.A.T. has already been paid on those goods in N.I.

A fundamental part of the E.U. is the concept of no double taxation.