VAT being charged for goods at border of NI

Tipsy Mac

If we want to bring in North Korean style border controls to protect our uncompetitive economy we need to leave the EU.

Paulw

consultech wrote: »

It could only be effectively done around Newry, due to it's border location. They can't exactly park the gardaí up around Lisburn and Belfast etc. That's most likely the reason it hasn't happened yet. The northern Irish government is hardly gonna volunteer the PSNI to limit money coming in to the economy.

Well, for a start, the Gardai would have no power to stop and search vehicles. Only the Revenue would have that power.

I didn't mean that they would be in NI, but they would have a large number of roads to NI to have checkpoints.

Yeah, the M1 would be a primary spot, but that road goes at a crawl anyway, especially when you near the border, so it would have limited impact on the traffic flow.

Paulw

rubadub wrote: »

Some people could work overtime on a saturday for time & a half and make far more money and be less stressed than going up north. Some poster talked of being stuck 45mins in a carpark, while others will talk of "ah sure its only minutes up the road" -don't fool yourself, work it out properly.

Not everyone can work overtime. In fact, a lot of people can't.

But, we tend to be in Dundalk frequently (her sister lives there), so it's no hassle to just drop across the border, when in the area.

rubadub

Paulw wrote: »

Not everyone can work overtime. In fact, a lot of people can't.

Thats why I said "some people". the other way to look at is say you could REALLY save €100, if somebody asked me to drive to the north on a Saturday and go shopping for them and they would give me €100 I would have no interest in doing it (i.e. I am not allowed buy stuff for myself but "gain" the same €100) -others might do it, but just give it full thought and work it out -thats all I am saying. There would come a point where I would give up my saturday, and petrol money & suffer the stress etc.

Paulw

rubadub wrote: »

Thats why I said "some people". the other way to look at is say you could REALLY save €100, if somebody asked me to drive to the north on a Saturday and go shopping for them and they would give me €100 I would have no interest in doing it (i.e. I am not allowed buy stuff for myself but "gain" the same €100) -others might do it, but just give it full thought and work it out -thats all I am saying. There would come a point where I would give up my saturday, and petrol money & suffer the stress etc.

Totally agree with you there. I also wouldn't give up a day to drive there. The traffic getting to Newry would wreck my head. The traffic is just a nightmare.

ardmacha

Even by boards standards this is not a useful thread. Under the single market the Irish government cannot charge VAT and they cannot have systematic customs checkpoints at the border. Any resources would be better used following vans etc, where pubs etc are taking in goods in bulk for resale.

slimjimmc

Paulw wrote: »

Well, for a start, the Gardai would have no power to stop and search vehicles. Only the Revenue would have that power.

I didn't mean that they would be in NI, but they would have a large number of roads to NI to have checkpoints.

Yeah, the M1 would be a primary spot, but that road goes at a crawl anyway, especially when you near the border, so it would have limited impact on the traffic flow.

I think you got it backwards, Revenue don't have powers to stop moving traffic, only Gardaí and School Traffic Wardens have that authority. Revenue do have the power to search and seize illegal goods without warrant, which Gardaí don't in most circumstances.

However if the government really wanted to make it awkward for returning shoppers they could just set up Garda immigration check points and require everyone entering the state to verify their EU status. Not much different to an airport. All above board and legal.

Paulw

slimjimmc wrote: »

I think you got it backwards, Revenue don't have powers to stop moving traffic, only Gardaí and School Traffic Wardens have that authority. Revenue do have the power to search and seize illegal goods without warrant, which Gardaí don't in most circumstances.

Nope, I'm correct. The Revenue have the power to stop and search any vehicle, and regularly setup checkpoints, even without a Garda presence. Their power comes from the Finance and Revenue acts (updated 2009).

Power to stop vehicles.
134.—(1) An officer in uniform may stop any vehicle in order—

(a) that such officer, or any officer accompanying such officer, may exercise any power conferred on them by section 135 in relation to excisable products or any other products chargeable with a duty of excise, where there are reasonable grounds to believe that such products are being transported in or on such vehicle, or

(b) to examine and take samples of mineral oil under section 135 (2)(a).

(2) An officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána may stop any vehicle for any purpose related to vehicle registration tax or the registration of vehicles in any of the registers established and maintained under Chapter IV of Part II of the Finance Act, 1992 .

(3) Any person in charge of a moving vehicle shall, at the request of an officer in uniform or a member of the Garda Síochána, stop such vehicle.

(4) Any person in charge of a vehicle shall, whether such vehicle has been stopped by an officer or member of the Garda Síochána under this section, or is already stationary, at the request of an officer or member of the Garda Síochána—

(a) keep such vehicle stationary for such period as is reasonably required to enable an officer or member to exercise any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , or

(b) where such vehicle is in the opinion of such officer or member situated in a place unsuitable for the exercise of any power conferred on such officer or member by section 135 , take such vehicle or cause it to be taken to such place as such officer or member may consider suitable for the exercise of such power.

getz

slimjimmc wrote: »

I think you got it backwards, Revenue don't have powers to stop moving traffic, only Gardaí and School Traffic Wardens have that authority. Revenue do have the power to search and seize illegal goods without warrant, which Gardaí don't in most circumstances.

However if the government really wanted to make it awkward for returning shoppers they could just set up Garda immigration check points and require everyone entering the state to verify their EU status. Not much different to an airport. All above board and legal.

i think stopping irish citizens re-entering their own country under false pretence, would not go down well with irish people,and would also hit irish goods going for export,

rubadub

getz wrote: »

i think stopping irish citizens re-entering their own country under false pretence, would not go down well with irish people

Of course it wouldn't go down well-thats the point!

What are the disgruntled shoppers going to do "feck this, I am boycotting the shops in the north, that'll show em".

getz wrote: »

also hit irish goods going for export,

how so?

getz

rubadub wrote: »

Of course it wouldn't go down well-thats the point!

What are the disgruntled shoppers going to do "feck this, I am boycotting the shops in the north, that'll show em".


how so?

i live across the river from fleetwood [lancashire] where the stenna line ferry docks ,twice a day lorries packed with irish merchandise drive off to unload their goods,many also go back with imports,this is only one of several of the ferry ports from ireland in the UK, most of these goods are from the irish republic and a few from the north,i would think it would put more cost onto the exporter/importer if traffic was stopped at the border,what do you think ?

Sponge Bob

Paulw wrote: »

Nope, I'm correct. The Revenue have the power to stop and search any vehicle, and regularly setup checkpoints, even without a Garda presence.

They always had this power , the Revenue always did diesel dipping checkpoints themselves for example.

Paulw

Sponge Bob wrote: »

They always had this power , the Revenue always did diesel dipping checkpoints themselves for example.

Yes, but until (I think it was 1994) that power only extended 20 miles from a port of entry (airport, ferry port, port, etc).

maggy_thatcher

One option Ireland could do - join the Schengen agreement, forcing a withdrawal from the CTA. This would mean passport control would be introduced between Ireland and the UK (including NI), introducing massive tailbacks along all the border crossings.

The British government warned Ireland in the past that if it joined Schengen, they'd build a massive wall between NI and ROI -- so each border crossing would be easy to maintain.

consultech

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

One option Ireland could do - join the Schengen agreement, forcing a withdrawal from the CTA. This would mean passport control would be introduced between Ireland and the UK (including NI), introducing massive tailbacks along all the border crossings.

The British government warned Ireland in the past that if it joined Schengen, they'd build a massive wall between NI and ROI -- so each border crossing would be easy to maintain.

With that quote born in mind; I could see the Schengen agreement goin down well with the 32 counties brigades north and south of the border alright.