A call to all the unemployed

earlyapex

Responding to the earlier call for SW cuts for JB, I lost my job recently after working 8 straight years, so im on jb now with a mortgage by myself, no kids.
so i get 204.30 a week

I had always been good with money and got a real good mortgage rate of 1.55% so luckily,
my mortgage is 850 a month, so my income is 817.20 - 850 = - 32.80 euro a month.

Should SW be cut for me?

judas101

skearon wrote: »

No, the dole should be based on contribution, i.e. those who worked, and have lost their jobs, should get 70-80% of salary for up to 24 months, after that a tiered system, whereby the longer a healthy person stays on the dole the less they get; and those who have contributed nothing, get the lowest rate unless they complete education and/or community work.

The German system is like this and works well.

It helps hard working people who lost their jobs out but without creating long term unemployed.

judas101

earlyapex wrote: »

I had always been good with money

Surely your savings can help you through this tough spell

earlyapex

There is always one ****.
You didnt answer my question.

Lirael

judas101 wrote: »

The German system is like this and works well.

It helps hard working people who lost their jobs out but without creating long term unemployed.

similar system is in Poland - you get a fix rate per month (keep strong - equivalent of 135 euros) but they are required to submit proof they looked for job or they can pick up offers from SW offices - if they refuse 3 times in a row - they lose their payment and are banned from the system for the following 12 consecutive months and they can only return back if they worked at least 18 months afterwards ...

judas101

earlyapex wrote: »

There is always one ****.
You didnt answer my question.

I think the incentive to work is too low and theres too many long term dolies sitting on their arses for years. (not saying youre one)

Everyone has to bear the burden here.

Sorry for you situation but thats how it is.
Theres still work out there.

draward

Dave! wrote: »

Means test all dole recipients

JESUES THEY DO THAT ALREADY HOW MUCH MORE CAN THE CU TS CUT US. MY HOUSE WILL BE FOR SALE IN A FEW WEEKS COS I CANT RE PAY A MORGATGE OF 60,000.

the_barfly1

judas101 wrote: »

Theres still work out there.

For 450k unemployed? Show me where.

nesf

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

I am unemployed since June 2009. I have worked & paid full, high rate taxes for 16 years. Im not a scounger, Im not a waster & im certainly not a tosser. I didnt choose social welfare. Circumstances change for everyone & no one knows what is around the corner for their own circumstances. Its very easy to say slash SW but try living on it to actually realise €102.50 literly goes no where.

Not a lot really is it.

You forgot Child Benefit. So an extra €332 a month. Not much but it makes a big difference on spending money with the dole and children. You should also have a medical card, which knocks a nice bit off the inevitable trips to the doctor that come with young children. Nothing like the luxury that some people make it out to be but it's a big help to not have to fork out for GP visits as any parent would tell you.

Honestly, move somewhere cheaper, I realise that that's much harder than some people seem to think but it's the best move you can make to improve your quality of life right now. SW needs to be slashed, but hopefully the Government will have some cop on and slash it for single people without kids rather than single parents and families.

mackeminexile

"Some people are on Job Seekers Allowance for years however. We had to import 100s of thousands of immigrants to sweep our floors, yet we still had 250,000 Irish people drawing the dole. I'd love to know why we continue to pay this group of people who are obviously unwilling to work."

Have you ever considered that a lot of the people now on the dole can't get the kind of work you're talking about? I have 12 years in the same industry, cv reads well and well experienced for my age. Have applied for all the junior jobs and no joy. The answer (I know this as I know a lot of people in the industry) is simple. Why would they hire me, knowing that I am way overqualified and experienced, and they know rightly that as soon as things pick up and a better role comes along that I will take it if offered.

Think before you post.

nesf

Dave! wrote: »

Means test all dole recipients

There's already a means test, any savings over 15K will count against you and reduce the amount of benefit you receive. Someone with 50K in the bank will only get 140 or something like that (despite being sensible and squirreling away money during the good times etc).

You effectively get punished for being sensible in this country sometimes, which bemuses me.

lmimmfn

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

I am unemployed since June 2009. I have worked & paid full, high rate taxes for 16 years. Im not a scounger, Im not a waster & im certainly not a tosser. I didnt choose social welfare. Circumstances change for everyone & no one knows what is around the corner for their own circumstances. Its very easy to say slash SW but try living on it to actually realise €102.50 literly goes no where.

Not a lot really is it.

WTF? im working and i couldnt afford that, theres plenty of great 3 bedroom houses around ireland where the rent is only 600 or 700euro, why would you pay that insane amount?

Welfare needs to be cut, end of story, it cant always be recession proof, besides grocery prices have decreased. People in the uk can survive on a third of what the dole is here.

Yes its hard to live on it, but hey its tough on everyone at the moment.

hinault

nesf wrote: »

There's already a means test, any savings over 15K will count against you and reduce the amount of benefit you receive. Someone with 50K in the bank will only get 140 or something like that (despite being sensible and squirreling away money during the good times etc).

You effectively get punished for being sensible in this country sometimes, which bemuses me.

The person with 50k in the bank presumably paid tax on that income that generated their saving 50k : and now they get penalised for doing the right thing, having fallen on hard times.

This country is a joke.

mossfort

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Exactly.

2 parents and 2 kids with social welfare as the only income works out at over 40K a year. How anyone can justify that is beyond me.


Before any more people make the assumption that I want all social welfare cut by 50% - I don't. Job seekers BENEFIT is what you get when you've paid your contributions and should remain unchanged.
Job seekers ALLOWANCE is what you get when you've been on the dole for 1 year+ or have simply just been on the dole your whole life having contributed nothing.

I'm saying that Job seekers ALLOWANCE should be cut by 50%.


The dole is supposed to be a stop gap to help you back onto your feet, not a lifestyle choice.

incorrect jobseekers allowance is also what you get when you were self employed and are out of work.
many tradesmen women etc were self employed during the celtic tiger who now find themselves out of work .
you could have been in employment paying prsi for years before hand but these contributions do not count if you are self employed.
so you could be out of work for a year before you can claim anything and then wait six months for the overpaid civil servants to process your claim.
so you are saying to cut jsa by 50% for people who have created employment , paid in huge amounts of tax and vat over the years who now find themselves on hard times.
i know there are a lot of wasters who are on the dole for years who have no intention of ever looking for work but everyone on jsa should not suffer because of these.

Arnold Layne

JSB should take the format of many European countries, the more you pay in tax the more you receive in the first 6 months of unemployment, i.e. 80% of your income. After that it depreciates at a rate that ensures the long term unemployed get SFA

K-9

The Unemployed need to accept a cut. It is unfair to expect the Public Service and Private Sector take hits and not see SW getting one.

There already is a SW trap, no point making it worse.

lmimmfn

K-9 wrote: »

The Unemployed need to accept a cut. It is unfair to expect the Public Service and Private Sector take hits and not see SW getting one.

There already is a SW trap, no point making it worse.

exactly, if you cut social welfare, minimum wage and PS, then private sector will indirectly get cut also which should drive prices down and increase our competitiveness.

97i9y3941

i wonder are they really just cutting the child benefit instead of the means test so it wont bar the well off from receiveing it...

K-9

Fred83 wrote: »

i wonder are they really just cutting the child benefit instead of the means test so it wont bar the well off from receiveing it...

Ideally they should tax it. Social transfers are a huge cost to this country.

Unfortunately, you tend to get the types that want a higher tax rate, but no taxation on Child Benefit.

Explain that one?

nesf

Fred83 wrote: »

i wonder are they really just cutting the child benefit instead of the means test so it wont bar the well off from receiveing it...

Means testing is expensive to implement which is the biggest reason not to use it with child benefit. Taxing it looks more plausible but then you have to consider that taxation in this country is implemented by the employer not the employee with self-reporting. It would be a relatively simple matter to tax it if we all filled out tax returns for ourselves each year but how would one enforce it with our present system which simplifies tax collection through taxation at source so to speak.

Ideally, taxing or means testing is great because it would focus the welfare towards groups most in need of it but in reality it just isn't that simple I'm afraid.

K-9

nesf wrote: »

Means testing is expensive to implement which is the biggest reason not to use it with child benefit. Taxing it looks more plausible but then you have to consider that taxation in this country is implemented by the employer not the employee with self-reporting. It would be a relatively simple matter to tax it if we all filled out tax returns for ourselves each year but how would one enforce it with our present system which simplifies tax collection through taxation at source so to speak.

Ideally, taxing or means testing is great because it would focus the welfare towards groups most in need of it but in reality it just isn't that simple I'm afraid.

I think means testing is a non runner because it will probably involve the HSE.

Taxation could be done. You have the higher 41% tax rate, you have the 4% levy rate, over €75k.

It can be done, Revenue have the information at hand. It would involve a cost at set up, but could work easily enough afterwards.

Its amazing when we want to introduce doctor only medical cards ,things are done. When it involves a disadvantage to people, obstacles are found!

mackeminexile

K-9 wrote: »

The Unemployed need to accept a cut. It is unfair to expect the Public Service and Private Sector take hits and not see SW getting one.

There already is a SW trap, no point making it worse.

I'm all for the chronically unemployed being pushed back into the work place BUT and its a big one, it really isn't a fair situation to expect people who, through no fault of their own despite being hard working and having paid into the system for years to take a cut in their benefits that are already less than feasible to live on. That said, there are people who obviously don't need full entitlement - living at home etc. The idea of paying out at a percentage of past salary/payments into system sounds good. Does that mean then that those who weren't able t earn big money and save etc are to be penalised moreso?

sdanseo

I never understand how the dole at full rate can be €208 for a single person and less than €50 extra for the two kids. Horse****.

Mind you, €208 is a lot for a week. I could live quite easily on a quarter of that if I wasn't so attached to my car.

nesf

K-9 wrote: »

I think means testing is a non runner because it will probably involve the HSE.

Taxation could be done. You have the higher 41% tax rate, you have the 4% levy rate, over €75k.

It can be done, Revenue have the information at hand. It would involve a cost at set up, but could work easily enough afterwards.

Its amazing when we want to introduce doctor only medical cards ,things are done. When it involves a disadvantage to people, obstacles are found!

Taxing it would involve having to introduce some form of tax return for everybody and all the administration needed to process, check and enforce the rules of such. It wouldn't be trivial to do and there would be a substantial increase in "running costs". As is, the only people getting checked are self-employed people and businesses. This would mean needing to do checks on everyone.

K-9

mackeminexile wrote: »

I'm all for the chronically unemployed being pushed back into the work place BUT and its a big one, it really isn't a fair situation to expect people who, through no fault of their own despite being hard working and having paid into the system for years to take a cut in their benefits that are already less than feasible to live on. That said, there are people who obviously don't need full entitlement - living at home etc. The idea of paying out at a percentage of past salary/payments into system sounds good. Does that mean then that those who weren't able t earn big money and save etc are to be penalised moreso?

That's where the difficulty comes. How do you differentiate? Unless you create differences in the rates, 1 year Unemployed, 2 years, 3 years etc.

nesf wrote: »

Taxing it would involve having to introduce some form of tax return for everybody and all the administration needed to process, check and enforce the rules of such. It wouldn't be trivial to do and there would be a substantial increase in "running costs". As is, the only people getting checked are self-employed people and businesses. This would mean needing to do checks on everyone.

Indeed, agreed. A Self Assessment system, like we've had for the last 20 years? Yes?

It wouldn't involve a major change. SW is there on the tax return. More would have to complete a tax return but Revenue have a great IT system.


Think we are dreaming of obstacles to put in the way of this because it involves people losing money. When it came to Union subs, bin collection etc. becoming automised in the tax system, very little uproar.

MaceFace

baubl wrote: »

it is the likes of you that should be getting the help.
it is the people who are previous to the last 2 to 10 years on dole who should be cut and done so big time.
You who worked 8 years straight was one of the people whose money went twoards those long term dole payments for those who were too lazy to work when there were plenty jobs for all and no excuses, just laziness

I disagree. Peoples debts should not be taken into account. There are many developers out there that have (ahem) trophy homes with massive debts and no incomes. Why not help this people if we are going to help "normal folk".

pidgion

can i try to put some light or xplain why i believe there should not be cuts....1 married couple 3 kids swa =e404.25 rent e75 weekly esb e20 weekly heating solid fuel =48.50 weekly bank repayments e51.50 weekly ...weekly shopping approx e176.00 weekly (3 teenagers) 2 of the kids still going to school and like to go with there friends an odd day to the shop and buy lunch the eldest on a comp. course and all books and college course items have to be paid for by me and of course lets not forget the tv licence a drop of petrol for the car and lets not forget the credit union but then maybe i am the lucky one and nothing breaks on me ie. washing machine fridge oh and by the way all the loans were not cancelled when we were forced onto the dole hope this puts some light and reason why i believe there should not be substantial cuts of course i may be sellfish

frman

We can't afford to pay the current levels of assistance.

There must be a cut.

Mullet head

Would it make sense to introduce mandatory community service for the long term unemployed? The hours increasing proportionally to the amount of years spent on the dole?

Mimikyu

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