A call to all the unemployed

Scarab

nesf wrote: »

Taxing it would involve having to introduce some form of tax return for everybody and all the administration needed to process, check and enforce the rules of such. It wouldn't be trivial to do and there would be a substantial increase in "running costs". As is, the only people getting checked are self-employed people and businesses. This would mean needing to do checks on everyone.

That's not really true, Revenue have income details for all employees in the Country. At the end of a tax year your employer sends a detailed list of income, tax and prsi paid for each employee that worked for them during the year. This is then uploaded onto the Revenue system and social welfare system linked to the employees PPS number so the information is quite easy to obtain.

Checks are also done on PAYE workers by Revenue Auditors, though clearly not as regularly as they are done on the self employed as the expected return from PAYE audits are much less than other taxheads.

97i9y3941

they waste enough money on other stupid stuff so they would have enough to means test it,of course it would still be messy,people probably make fraud claims to get around it,was even on news otherday,people who are very well off are claiming it aswell,where is the fairness in that?

mossfort

exactly people in highly paid jobs getting child benefit and having no guilt taking it.

Mr. Presentable

baaaa wrote: »

To get back on point,the minute the public sector are ordered to march we must lauch a counter march to show our support and the like.
The government must know that they have our full support in this.It will save the dole in the long run and make next years round of cuts on the public sector easier than this years have been.

You know what would save on dole payments? Sign on every day. Yes, every day. You are doing nothing else anyway. It'd do away with many who are working two/three days a week in the black economy.

And the dole should be subsistence level anyway, not the easy life level it is at for many at the moment.

I believe everyone should make a sacrifice - not just the top earners or the PS or the self employed and the middle income. Everyone.

Mr. Presentable

mossfort wrote: »

exactly people in highly paid jobs getting child benefit and having no guilt taking it.

Maybe child benefit should be means tested. But you know, when the highly paid started out, they had the same as the low paid - they mostly just worked harder. Should they be penalised for working hard while others not working at all are cosseted?

Lirael

nipplenuts wrote: »

Maybe child benefit should be means tested. But you know, when the highly paid started out, they had the same as the low paid - they mostly just worked harder. Should they be penalised for working hard while others not working at all are cosseted?

I wouldn't say so that's the point ....

surely, the rich should be cut off CB just for this while that there is economic downturn and gvt is lacking funds ...

in the future when everything comes back to normal they might be awarded it again ... at the moment I think it would be a good solution for cutting public expenditure ...

mackeminexile

How many of the people suggesting a cut in SW are actually living on it? I hate the situation, it's depressing and really hits the self confidence. Doing everything poss to get off it. Is it me or for the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs after working for years and paying tax etc, going on to SW is sharing/taking the pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nesf

mackeminexile wrote: »

How many of the people suggesting a cut in SW are actually living on it? I hate the situation, it's depressing and really hits the self confidence. Doing everything poss to get off it. Is it me or for the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs after working for years and paying tax etc, going on to SW is sharing/taking the pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only "sharing the pain" comments I've seen have been directed at the Public Service.

K-9

mackeminexile wrote: »

How many of the people suggesting a cut in SW are actually living on it? I hate the situation, it's depressing and really hits the self confidence. Doing everything poss to get off it. Is it me or for the unfortunate people who have lost their jobs after working for years and paying tax etc, going on to SW is sharing/taking the pain!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But again, as with the Public Sector pay debate, it comes back to figures.

Foreget NAMA. Tax Revenues €31 Billion, Pay €18 Billion (after levies), SW €21 Billion, Services €15 Billion.

Something has to give and pay cuts for the Public Sector isn't enough.

Remember when you worked yourself?

We all have to take cuts.

mackeminexile

judas101 wrote: »

I think the incentive to work is too low and theres too many long term dolies sitting on their arses for years. (not saying youre one)

Everyone has to bear the burden here.

Sorry for you situation but thats how it is.
Theres still work out there.

Yes there is.

Agreed there is a sector of society that seems to think its their right to claim and/or cheat the system by claiming when they have no intention of looking for or taking work. Its very difficult however to cut what is already hard to live on for the honest people out there.

As to the dole in the Uk being a third of what it is over here, yes that is true. I have family over there and the cost of living is WAY below what it is here.

thebman

nesf wrote: »

The only "sharing the pain" comments I've seen have been directed at the Public Service.

Your not reading all the posts so because there have been plenty of the private sector should have to take a cut too to share the pain comments from the public sector workers.

gerry28

There was something on the radio this morning about welfare fraud. Prime time investigates have a program on it tomorrow night.

Apparently if they were to clean up all welfare fraud they would save 2 billion a year. Absolutely staggering.

Joe1919

Dave! wrote: »

Means test all dole recipients

The 'dole' (Jobseekers Benefit) is means tested after 12 months.
So what you are calling for is already there.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/unemployment_benefit

Strictly speaking, Jobseekers Benefit (for those who have worked and paid prsi) is insurance and not 'dole'.
(Dole means to get for free or a charity.) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Dole

erictheviking

Dave! wrote: »

Means test all dole recipients

JSA applicants are already means tested. In the real world when young people with parents who work go on the dole it encourages them to move out to avail of full rate plus rent allowance etc. In my opinion means testing them costs more.

97i9y3941

its rotten to core aswell,instance an honest hardworking family,for the sake of their kids,might aswell give up their jobs to get all the allowances/entiltments they would get for their kids,looking at the grant system for college since its accesses your parents income*what the well off do,hide their income to get grants for their kids

bored_senseless

sdonn wrote: »

I never understand how the dole at full rate can be €208 for a single person and less than €50 extra for the two kids. Horse****.

Mind you, €208 is a lot for a week. I could live quite easily on a quarter of that if I wasn't so attached to my car.

Just wondering then if you can afford to live on €52 a week are you living with your parents not paying rent, have you recently won the lotto or are you just a wizard with money?

(I do agree that €50 extra for two kids is nuts.)

cson

bored_senseless wrote: »

Just wondering then if you can afford to live on €52 a week are you living with your parents not paying rent, have you recently won the lotto or are you just a wizard with money?

(I do agree that €50 extra for two kids is nuts.)

With the rent allowance scheme you could. You could quite concieveably end up paying a contribution of less than €20 per week to your rent and I'm comfortably living on €25 a week for food at the moment. So you'd have €7 left for heat and electricity and you could claim fuel allowance for that, so yeah. It's very possible. Tough but possible.

sdanseo

bored_senseless wrote: »

Just wondering then if you can afford to live on €52 a week are you living with your parents not paying rent, have you recently won the lotto or are you just a wizard with money?

(I do agree that €50 extra for two kids is nuts.)

Well I'm not taking rent into account but with rent allowance I've heard stories of nearly 100% payment (one guy on RTÉ, Eddie Hobbs or similar show a while back got paid €24k net at his job and chose that rather than no work and €25k net from the social including his rent allowance, dole works out less than €11k, work it out)- although clearly not in the case above.

bernyh

AdrianII wrote: »

dole is too high for starters, who is to say it wont be cut?

too many non nationals being fed, clothed, etc on benefits?

too many people going up north, people on the dole going up and spending there money on groceries etc because it is cheaper, gov should be trying to do something about this, its basically giving the irish money into the UKs hands

Nothing racist there to say then????

The government should be looking after the peeps who have paid into social welfare.. but people going up the North is not to be sneered at, if the retailers and government actually stopped for a few minutes and looked at the reasons WHY people are shopping up north and tried to address them then we would all be much happier people!

Unfortunately Adrian the fact of the non nationals "being clothed and fed" in the country are all part of being in the EU where we are an "open economy" and we would all be treated the same in any other EU country.

Although being "a non national" (I'm from the UK) I have found the welfare system in this country to be absolutely ridiculous, reward people for staying out of work, not helping families to return to work! It's not the people who live here we have to blame it's the inadequate government who led us into this debacle!

tudlytops

skearon wrote: »

No, the dole should be based on contribution, i.e. those who worked, and have lost their jobs, should get 70-80% of salary for up to 24 months, after that a tiered system, whereby the longer a healthy person stays on the dole the less they get; and those who have contributed nothing, get the lowest rate unless they complete education and/or community work.

I agree, but make it simpler, help them find jobs, so there is no excuses, if they refuse a job without a good reason, stop the benefit all together, after all there are far to many unemployed saying things like " i would not get up for that money", " i hate getting up early" , " i have children", and the least goes on.

Leave the benefits for those who really need it, there are disable people, cares, etc, that really can't work and they are condemn to a live of very little, all because lazy people won't get up and go to work.

And I just don't get it when they moan about the rent, if you are unemployed it doesn't matter where you live, move to a cheaper place somewhere else and look for a job there, and please don't start with stuff like, kids schools, they'll survive the move.

tudlytops

"too many non nationals being fed, clothed, etc on benefits?"

Don't even go there, if Ireland was to send every non-national home and in return every Irish living abroad had to return to Ireland, I think this would be the first island in history to sink.:)

The country it not the way it is because of non-nationals, many paid their taxes and are now entitle to get help like anyone else.

the country is like this because of bad management.

bored_senseless

Quote:
Originally Posted by bored_senseless
Just wondering then if you can afford to live on €52 a week are you living with your parents not paying rent, have you recently won the lotto or are you just a wizard with money?

cson wrote: »

With the rent allowance scheme you could. You could quite concieveably end up paying a contribution of less than €20 per week to your rent and I'm comfortably living on €25 a week for food at the moment. So you'd have €7 left for heat and electricity and you could claim fuel allowance for that, so yeah. It's very possible. Tough but possible.

I understand, our landlord does not accept rent allowance (and our contract isn't up until april) so I forget that others can claim this. Sorry
I don't get fuel allowance as my flatmate is working and you also have to be long term unemployed to qualify (15months on jobseekers allowance).
Even so I don't think €52 is enough. I don't drink, smoke, go to cinema, but clothes or any luxuries but still need to buy some toiletries, bin tags, bus fare and a small bit of credit -cos some jobs you have to ring up about (not many, thank god). €80 or 100 maybe with rent allowance.

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by bored_senseless
Just wondering then if you can afford to live on €52 a week are you living with your parents not paying rent, have you recently won the lotto or are you just a wizard with money?




I understand, our landlord does not accept rent allowance (and our contract isn't up until april) so I forget that others can claim this. Sorry
I don't get fuel allowance as my flatmate is working and you also have to be long term unemployed to qualify (15months on jobseekers allowance).
Even so I don't think €52 is enough. I don't drink, smoke, go to cinema, but clothes or any luxuries but still need to buy some toiletries, bin tags, bus fare and a small bit of credit -cos some jobs you have to ring up about (not many, thank god). €80 or 100 maybe with rent allowance.

If your landlord doesn't accept rent allowance and your circumstances have changed since you started renting, you can give notice and move, there are now many landlords who do accept rent allowance.

Also my landlord didn't accept rent allowence, but when I was made redundant and spoke to him he had no problems with it, sometimes they say no in the biggining because a lot of people still think that those getting rent allowence are all lazy, dirt people, that aren't going to pay the rent or look after the place.

There are always solutions.

One thing I don't get, why do landlords have the need to know if someone is on rent allowance, why can't one claim it without the landlord knowing, this is the case in many other countries, it stops a lot of discrimination and makes a lot of non tax paying landlords having to pay tax.

bored_senseless

tudlytops wrote: »

If your landlord doesn't accept rent allowance and your circumstances have changed since you started renting, you can give notice and move, there are now many landlords who do accept rent allowance.

Also my landlord didn't accept rent allowence, but when I was made redundant and spoke to him he had no problems with it, sometimes they say no in the biggining because a lot of people still think that those getting rent allowence are all lazy, dirt people, that aren't going to pay the rent or look after the place.

There are always solutions.

One thing I don't get, why do landlords have the need to know if someone is on rent allowance, why can't one claim it without the landlord knowing, this is the case in many other countries, it stops a lot of discrimination and makes a lot of non tax paying landlords having to pay tax.

I tried talking to my landlord and he refused to let us leave. He said he didn't want rent allowance cos after that would he would always have to accept rent allowance for anyone who wanted it. he said we are great tenants but he wasn't sure all unemployed tenants would be so good.
I argued again yesterday showing how well I had taken care of the place, got my friend(an electrician) to repair some light fittings and paid the estate upkeep of €52 annually without ever asking for it. He seemed taken aback by that so he said he will try to find someone for it at start of jan and then leave us go if he succeeds.

Landlords have to know because the government pay them directly in case we spend it all

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

I tried talking to my landlord and he refused to let us leave. He said he didn't want rent allowance cos after that would he would always have to accept rent allowance for anyone who wanted it. he said we are great tenants but he wasn't sure all unemployed tenants would be so good.
I argued again yesterday showing how well I had taken care of the place, got my friend(an electrician) to repair some light fittings and paid the estate upkeep of €52 annually without ever asking for it. He seemed taken aback by that so he said he will try to find someone for it at start of jan and then leave us go if he succeeds.

Landlords have to know because the government pay them directly in case we spend it all

I got rent allowance after the fire for about 6 month's it was paid to me and i paid the landlord.

I would tell him I'm leaving and that I was using the month in advance and the deposit as notice, if he wanted to take me to court is was welcome to.

Feel for you though