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Am I Irish?

1246

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭robbie_998


    @walrusgumble.

    yes thats much better, thank you


  • Posts: 0 Aniya Old Album


    Exactly, if you think you're Irish you are. Being Irish is state of mind.

    The way some people talk here, they'd be rounding up people who didn't fit in with their narrow view of Irishness and shoot them. Just as well this is the internet and After Hours, not the real world.

    It IS the real world. I'm constantly being told things like 'you sound Irish......but you're obviously NOT' and 'well you're sort of like....like Irish but with foreign parents'. It's almost Nazi-ish, but nobody can see that. My mam is English but that's not why they say those things, as you wouldn't know that unless I told you. It's because ONE set of great-grandparents came from a Mediterranean country and that's why I have tanned skin. I just happen to take after them a hell of a lot compared to the rest of my family - my brother is as pasty and freckly as they come.

    So...I have an Irish passport, Irish driving license, lived here most of my life, my last name as Irish, I have an Irish accent, went to college in Dublin.....and still the vast majority of Irish people do not see me as one of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 Lig OFE


    have you ever used the phrase "sher he's nothin but a feck-wanker" if so, you're possibly english but have a great grasp of rural ireland

    i believe if ya wanna be irish ya can be... i dont know what makes you a citizen but i think if ya love it here and youve lived here a few years, and ya wanna continue to live here then enjoy the place and the chats and the view....

    and yes you can be any colour skin and still be irish... it'd just be silly if ya couldn't... it also doesnt matter where your parents are from!! they're not you... my dads from tipperary, i'm from athlone... why would that make me a tipperary person?...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    robbie_998 wrote: »
    Scenario No. 1 = before the thing was brought in that was the case but after that it no longer work like that so none of them are irish full stop.

    Scenario No. 2 = if they dont have irish parents then they should not be able to claim to be irish.

    scenario 1, eh, no. the children born in ireland before January 2005, are Irish Citizens, can hold passports and will only ever be revoked pending an application by the Minister to do so. The children born in Ireland before 2005, did not stop being citizens. Now, being allowed to stay in Ireland is a different matter.

    As of 2005, any child born in Ireland and whose parents are not irish will not be citizens unless the parent or parents hae legally lived here for a least three years

    Scenario 2 - so non Irish parents who have lived in Ireland for say, 7 years, legally, but don't wish to apply for citizenship (very very little difference with rights of a citizen and legal immigrant bar passport and EU citizenship and no threat of deportation) should have their children left in limbo??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dr_Phil


    [quote=[Deleted User];63352925]
    So...I have an Irish passport, Irish driving license, lived here most of my life, my last name as Irish, I have an Irish accent, went to college in Dublin.....and still the vast majority of Irish people do not see me as one of them.[/quote]
    My favourite is /after a while of conversation, "where are you from", etc/ "Ah, jeez I thought you're Irish!!"
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭robbie_998


    scenario 1, eh, no. the children born in ireland before January 2005, are Irish Citizens, can hold passports and will only ever be revoked pending an application by the Minister to do so. The children born in Ireland before 2005, did not stop being citizens. Now, being allowed to stay in Ireland is a different matter.

    As of 2005, any child born in Ireland and whose parents are not irish will not be citizens unless the parent or parents hae legally lived here for a least three years

    Scenario 2 - so non Irish parents who have lived in Ireland for say, 7 years, legally, but don't wish to apply for citizenship (very very little difference with rights of a citizen and legal immigrant bar passport and EU citizenship and no threat of deportation) should have their children left in limbo??

    right well if their not gonna be able to stay in the country then why bother even giving them citizenship in the first place ?

    for the second one, im not sure of immigrants rules or whatever so im gonna leave that blank but if that is the case then their children should not have irish citizenship IMO


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    [quote=[Deleted User];63352925]It IS the real world. I'm constantly being told things like 'you sound Irish......but you're obviously NOT' and 'well you're sort of like....like Irish but with foreign parents'. It's almost Nazi-ish, but nobody can see that. My mam is English but that's not why they say those things, as you wouldn't know that unless I told you. It's because ONE set of great-grandparents came from a Mediterranean country and that's why I have tanned skin. I just happen to take after them a hell of a lot compared to the rest of my family - my brother is as pasty and freckly as they come.

    So...I have an Irish passport, Irish driving license, lived here most of my life, my last name as Irish, I have an Irish accent, went to college in Dublin.....and still the vast majority of Irish people do not see me as one of them.[/QUOTE]

    Are you Des Bishop by any chance?:D
    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭lightning_saa


    I dont think it matters were you where you were born or where u are in the world, its the mentallity

    complain about everything
    get ****faced
    laff about everything

    Its pretty easy to be irish imo


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    Both my kids born here to English parents. Both have Irish passports (when 3 & 1 yrs). Both say 'tree' (3) and 'dis' (this). Both join in Irelands call when we watch the rugby.

    Does that count?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    robbie_998 wrote: »
    right well if their not gonna be able to stay in the country then why bother even giving them citizenship in the first place ?

    for the second one, im not sure of immigrants rules or whatever so im gonna leave that blank but if that is the case then their children should not have irish citizenship IMO

    Good question. The changes in the laws, was not neccessarily a case of granting the person citizenship (in most cases children/new borns) it was a case of allowing the non irish parents permission to reside in ireland to care for the child. sadly, this led to a bit of a pis& take, a bit of abuse. See the stats from the departments in relation to people from outside the EU coming here, heavily pregnant, applying for asylum (under international law, one cant not turn away an asylum seekers request to be considered for an application, unless Dublin Convention kicks in) and within two weeks to three months give birth and within a week after this event, withdraw their claim for asylum in order to apply for residence which until 2002 was normally given (how come all of a sudden their fears were gone?)

    Its a case of not following other European countries in the late 1970's and 1980's in changing their citizenship laws (Britian saw an influx from former colonies - ironic, people from places like Jamacia coming Home to the Motherland being told to f off, imperialism - you reap with you sow), which unfortunately were open to abuse by some. for a while, with the addition of EU citizenship one enjoys, Ireland was considered a back door to Europe, much to the anger of Brussels after a European Court Case in 2004 known as Chen v UK.

    You have to regard for a number of matters, first, old and new articles 2 and 3 cheerish all of irish birth and anestory, robbo was in the aras with her light for the irish disapora, ireland had never experienced, until 1990's have such a influx of non nationals, whether work permit holders, asylum seekers/declared refugees, citizens from other EU states or illegals

    Basically that decision of parents being allowed to stay in Ireland comes from a number of High Court and Supreme Court cases from 1980's-2009, cases such as Loebe 2003, Dimbo (2008), Fajujonu (1990), all/most of which dealt with citizen children whose parents were neither Irish or EU citizens and in most cases were illegal at time of birth or when deportation order was issued. Those cases acknowledged that while the citizen child could not be deported, the parents, depending on a number of issues such as length of time in the country may be deported. Effectively, if the parents are deported, then who is going to look after the child? Wouldn't sending the parent or parents back to their country of origin not really effectively mean removing the citizen child? If the child had to go home with the parents like in Loebe (funny enough after all that hassle, they (parents and other non Irish children) would have being free to stay one year later due to the Czech Republic joining the EU - subject to EU laws of course, alternatively, Lobe might have being allowed to avail of the then IBC 05 scheme) However, even if they had to go home , there would be nothing stopping the citizen child returning and living in Ireland when they were 18 years old.

    The State dealt with this matter far too late (when the floods came in). As a result of Lobe, children were left in limbo. So, as a once off, the remaining parents of citizen children who were still in Ireland were granted residency in Ireland to raise their citizen children here.

    Normally, laws don't tend to be retrospective, the new laws did not effect the children's right to the citizenship

    The new laws now are put in place to prevent certain parents claiming their child is a citizen therefore enjoying a possibly strong argument to allow the parents to stay

    the issue left to consider is what about the parent who came over to ireland to reunite with the citizen child and mother after a lenghty period away (this was recently considered in the High Court before the summer) or the scenerio where at time of birth one parent was legal (for 3 years or more and not an international student) and the other parent was not legal or was an international student (they are legal but their time as a student is not counted for reckonable residency). While the child is a citizen, there will not be a 100% gurantee that the illegal parent will be allowed to stay in Ireland solely on the basis of playing an active role in the citizen childs life. every case to be considered on its own merits and facts.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Teferi wrote: »
    If you are born here, you're Irish.

    So does that mean Sir Kevin Myers is not Irish? Shock!


  • Posts: 0 Aniya Old Album


    Dr_Phil wrote: »
    My favourite is /after a while of conversation, "where are you from", etc/ "Ah, jeez I thought you're Irish!!"

    Yep, the "where are you from?" after a ten minute conversation is always a laugh. Or from someone who has seen my name (first and last names are Irish). I actually get "your English is really good" sometimes as well. I'm a fecking English teacher!
    Are you Des Bishop by any chance?:D

    No, how dare you associate me with Des Bishop!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,772 ✭✭✭toomevara


    Two questions;

    One; What happens when, though born in Ireland, you no longer 'feel' Irish...i.e. you've lived away so long you no longer identify with the place....how do you know when its time to jump ship...or can/should you?

    Two; Which passport would you have if you could have any one you liked?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    Is Sean Og O Hailpin Irish?

    I don't see why Seán Óg Ó hAilpín would not be Irish, although anybody who supports the GPA is a bit suspect in my book (Seán Óg was supercool until he joined those wholly repellant parasites).

    Imagine that; I just linked Irishness with trustworthiness. hehe.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    Sometimes when your balls are too big they bang off your legs and slow you down when you try to run:D

    Now, that is philosophy!:)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    if yer born in ireland yer irish
    just cant keep yer parents here on rthe grounds you were born here


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭robbie_998


    @walrus

    very good answering there,

    let me give you this scenario if i may (one which is currently happening but not in a major way)

    There is a foreign female student in college who only came here last summer (2008), She is in full time education here in Rep. Of Ireland but this is her last year, so come june/july she will be finished schooling.

    But she has being up the duff for the last couple of months now and is expected to drop before she is finished schooling (how she's going to sit exams i have no idea (so i'm just gonna guess she's abusing it so she has an excuse))

    She will still be a student when she drops.

    Will her child be a Irish citizen ? (there is no sign of a father(also not from Ireland) (one night stand))

    I really dont see why she should be allowed (or her child for that matter) to stay in the country and claim irish citizenship.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    robbie_998 wrote: »
    right well if their not gonna be able to stay in the country then why bother even giving them citizenship in the first place ?

    for the second one, im not sure of immigrants rules or whatever so im gonna leave that blank but if that is the case then their children should not have irish citizenship IMO

    with regard to the second issue, what happens if the non Irish parents who have lived in Ireland legally for more than 3 years, work (and never unemployed) paid their taxes etc, are not allowed by their own countries to have dual citizenship. Places like China do not recongise a Chinese nationals choice of selecting another citizenship. They may effectively revoke that parent's Chinese citizenship. Well, what happens if they have to return home for a funeral etc and when they enter their country of birth they are treated as a foreigner? how would the Irish take this if they had come back from say the US?

    A person should not have to be made take up a particular citizenship if they not wish to choose to do so. So long as they are law abiding citizens in a host state, that should be enough. How many Irish completely shed their Irish background/roots when they decide to permanently live and become citizens of the US, Australia etc.

    For most part, the parent would/will naturalise for lots of obvious and reasonable reasons. Thats all fine and well so long as they don't loose their citizenship of the country of their birth.

    Just becasue the parent does not wish to apply for Irish Citizenship, it should not mean that their children should be stopped for at least be given the opportunity to become citizens.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    One day in my job, in an idle moment I counted up all the names on the phone list and worked out which had English or Scottish or Welsh names and which had Irish, ignoring of course the actual, English, Scottish, Americans etc. It came out at about 40% give or take. Not very scientific, I know but interesting. Not English versions of Irish names but actual English names.

    I really don't know how you managed that as even Edward MacLysaght himself made some errors. For instance, did you include any of those very many English names which are used as representations of Irish names - e.g. Smith for Mac Gabhann (particularly in Cavan where they are most common)? Were Norman names included or excluded? Were pre-Gaelic names like Ó Neachtain included or excluded? How did you manage with polygenetic surnames such as Lynch (Ó Loingsigh & de Línse)? Try it again, but have MacLysaght's book or the newer Seán de Bhulbh's Sloinnte na hÉireann - Irish Surnames book next to you.;)


    PS: De Bhulbh's book has recently become available on The Irish Times website, where you can now search all Irish surnames: http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/surname/sloinnte.htm


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    toomevara wrote: »
    Two questions;

    One; What happens when, though born in Ireland, you no longer 'feel' Irish...i.e. you've lived away so long you no longer identify with the place....how do you know when its time to jump ship...or can/should you?

    Two; Which passport would you have if you could have any one you liked?

    golly, why on earth would you consider that:eek: are you sick?

    Ah no, under Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956-2004 you could always renounce your citizenship to the dept of foreign affairs. However, be warned, unless you have citizenship of another EU country, be prepared for those lovely meetings with Immigration Officers at airports all over Europe and Ireland where unless you are an american/canadian/aussie, expect to be treated like a paedo by the joeys, increased fees if studying, curtailed rights on voting(NNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOO) and visa applications

    with regard to the passports,put both in your pocket well which ever one looks the prettiest (if they are passports of EU states, whilst travelling within EU), if American going to America use the America if travelling from america to europe use europe (no visa etc - same applies for passports of other non eu states when returning to that country)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 sona1972


    when born here of irish parents!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    robbie_998 wrote: »
    @walrus

    very good answering there,

    let me give you this scenario if i may (one which is currently happening but not in a major way)

    There is a foreign female student in college who only came here last summer (2008), She is in full time education here in Rep. Of Ireland but this is her last year, so come june/july she will be finished schooling.

    But she has being up the duff for the last couple of months now and is expected to drop before she is finished schooling (how she's going to sit exams i have no idea (so i'm just gonna guess she's abusing it so she has an excuse))

    She will still be a student when she drops.

    Will her child be a Irish citizen ? (there is no sign of a father(also not from Ireland) (one night stand))

    I really dont see why she should be allowed (or her child for that matter) to stay in the country and claim irish citizenship.

    In general,

    Unless the father is Irish or a non Irish national legally residing here for the past three years, that child will not be an Irish Citizen, therefore, would not have a ground in relation to the child. The period as a student, thou legal, do not count as reckonable resdiency for Section 6 A of the Citizenship Ac or Section 16 of same (naturalisation). If the father is not a citizen or is not living here legally for three years, the child will be considered in facts and law to be Chinese.

    Regardless, there is still no guarantee that the Minister will grant status to the mother. The Minister, until he proposes to deport (by law, must be in writing) the mother if she becomes illegal/revokes the conditions of her student visa, the minister is not obliged to consider an application for residency on basis of child's irish citizenship.

    Secondly, normally, the parents have to be playing an active role. sue for maintenance

    Now of course, if the father was french/other EU, but had not lived in IReland for the three years, the child would be entitled to EU citizenship and nationality of the father's country (by descent). The child may have rights to reside on the basis of his father excercising his EU rights in Ireland or the child, by virtue of his EU citizenship (father's) and the mother may be entitled to stay in Ireland on that basis. need more facts Considering the mother being always considered the main carer, she may be allowed to stay and raised the child in Ireland or even (may) country of father. Alternatively, the child, assuming the father is a citizen of another EU country, may, be allowed to stay on its own basis (this is a small may) the mother better have a lot of money and health insurance to meet the Chen case.

    from the facts of this case, it is likely the child will not be an Irish Citizen or a citizen from another EU state, the father would likely be an International student. It would be funny tracking the father down for an expensive DNA test. Its likely the child is a Chinese citizen. So, unless the student either gets a work permit, marry an EU citizen (who is working/self employed or other ways of excercising their freemovement rights and not being a burden to state), or renew her student visa, she will be expected to leave come the end of her term or when she is allowed to finish any exams

    With regard to the dropping out, her visa ends when she
    (a) fails a course or drops out (unless Minister allows her to apply for a new course)
    (b) works more than 20 hours a week during college term
    (c) abuses the visa by working full time/running a business
    (d) fails to attend 80% of her classes.

    THere are brand new student rules coming in next year which will be cutting down on the er, english language students staying in Ireland for 6 years. THe reform is to be wholesale, making it difficult for students to get a visa unless doing a proper course

    with regard to the abuse, well, we shall leave that issue as we dont want pc brigade coming down or to make generalise sweeps against genuine students.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,649 ✭✭✭Catari Jaguar


    In the (loosely altered) words of Diamond Head

    Am I Irish? Yes I ****in am!
    Am I Irish? I am man, yes I am!


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lirael


    scenario 1, eh, no. the children born in ireland before January 2005, are Irish Citizens, can hold passports and will only ever be revoked pending an application by the Minister to do so. The children born in Ireland before 2005, did not stop being citizens. Now, being allowed to stay in Ireland is a different matter.

    As of 2005, any child born in Ireland and whose parents are not irish will not be citizens unless the parent or parents hae legally lived here for a least three years

    Scenario 2 - so non Irish parents who have lived in Ireland for say, 7 years, legally, but don't wish to apply for citizenship (very very little difference with rights of a citizen and legal immigrant bar passport and EU citizenship and no threat of deportation) should have their children left in limbo??

    no, they may not wish to have irish cs but they still can apply for irish cs for the child as they have fulfilled the minimum period of 3 yrs living in the state ... unless I am mistaken ;)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    Dr_Phil wrote: »
    Quick question, as a foreigner: when do you consider a person to be Irish:

    1. When has an Irish citizensip
    2. Was born in Ireland
    3. Born in Ireland from Irish parents, who were born from Irish parents, etc, etc..
    4. Is just well integrated into society and the lifestyle


    Cheers.

    Dunno what legally makes one Irish, but IMO, you can only call yourself Irish if all of your ancestors were born here since the famine, and you're not a dub. Dubs are the most anti-Irish people on Earth:mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    Just as a side note - I can never understand why foreigners want to be Irish. If I moved to Nigeria, I wouldn't want to be Nigerian! It all stinks of fraud to me TBH


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Just as a side note - I can never understand why foreigners want to be Irish. If I moved to Nigeria, I wouldn't want to be Nigerian! It all stinks of fraud to me TBH


    To paraphrase a guy in a letter to The Irish Times some months ago: when he lived in Britain in the 1950s at no stage did he want to be deemed British and would have been offended had somebody called him such.

    In that context, I have to agree that claims that somebody should be considered Irish as soon as they step off the boat or live here for a few years sound phony.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dr_Phil


    Just as a side note - I can never understand why foreigners want to be Irish. If I moved to Nigeria, I wouldn't want to be Nigerian! It all stinks of fraud to me TBH
    Well, dunno about others but IMO it's hard to remain in a state of "schizophrenia" when your kid speaks better english than language of the country of origin, when you have a house here, friends, get litte irish habbits and sayings, get involved in day-to-day life.. You can't be split between 2 places just because you were born somewhere else than the place you decided to settle in.

    Even todays Irish came from other places ages ago, got mixed with Scottish, Welsh, English, Spanish, Vikings... why would you deny this right to someone who does the same but a bit later?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    Dr_Phil wrote: »
    Well, dunno about others but IMO it's hard to remain in a state of "schizophrenia" when your kid speaks better english than language of the country of origin, when you have a house here, friends, get litte irish habbits and sayings, get involved in day-to-day life.. You can't be split between 2 places just because you were born somewhere else than the place you decided to settle in.

    Even todays Irish came from other places ages ago, got mixed with Scottish, Welsh, English, Spanish, Vikings... why would you deny this right to someone who does the same but a bit later?

    Whats there to be schizo about? If, for example, you were born and raised in Poland, your ancestors were Polish for several hundred years, you are fluent in Polish, but you just happen to work and live in Ireland, then you're Polish! Nothing wrong with that. Sure didn't thousands of Irish people do that all over the world. They still call themselves Irish, and they're proud of it!

    The english, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, and some French all come from the same gene pool, ie Gaelic. So we're not that mixed. Its just that genuine Gaelic-ness was preserved best in Ireland. Out of them, the english are probably the most mixed. And when the Vikings came, the segregated themselves away from the natives for fear of getting their asses kicked, and kicked they were, by good aul Brian Boru in the battle of Clontarf, 1014 ad.

    People who come here looking for a free ride are never welcome. We had a terrible history, as I'm sure you know. It still isn't sorted. Hence why we're justifiably a bit suspicious of foreigners.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Just as a side note - I can never understand why foreigners want to be Irish. If I moved to Nigeria, I wouldn't want to be Nigerian! It all stinks of fraud to me TBH

    I can never understand why ANYONE wants to be Irish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭ragg


    I can never understand why ANYONE wants to be Irish.

    YUCK! Another self loathing Irish man


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    I can never understand why ANYONE wants to be Irish.

    Fair enough. Men who dont want to be men get sex changes. If you dont want to be Irish, renounce your Irish citizenship and go and apply for citizenship of Nicaragua or Botswana or whatever country you like. If you dont want to be here, I dont want you to be here either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Fair enough. Men who dont want to be men get sex changes. If you dont want to be Irish, renounce your Irish citizenship and go and apply for citizenship of Nicaragua or Botswana or whatever country you like. If you dont want to be here, I dont want you to be here either.

    Your wants are immaterial to me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,043 ✭✭✭me_right_one


    Your wants are immaterial to me.

    As are yours to me. Mods? Troll in our midst.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭ragg


    Your wants are immaterial to me.

    I bet you say that to all the girls


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dr_Phil


    Alright so, the subject seems to be exausted by the looks of things, thank you very much for sharing your perspective.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 Oranage


    To OP, all your questions are void since the 3ed of october. The term we now use is European


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dr_Phil


    Oranage wrote: »
    The term we now use is European

    Dubliner>Irish>European.. Its the same, but blurred.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    Lirael wrote: »
    no, they may not wish to have irish cs but they still can apply for irish cs for the child as they have fulfilled the minimum period of 3 yrs living in the state ... unless I am mistaken ;)

    you are mistaken and have not read the previous posts and context of same. please read the last couple of posts. i even posted the actual bloody legislation for convenience. jesus if someone says black do you say white?

    If the non irish parent has resided in the state on a legal basis for three years prior to the birth of the child, then that child will be an irish citizen, by birth. they won't need to "apply" for citizenship. They will be considered citizens the minute they enter the world! the minister does not have the power to deny their (child)entitlements to citizenship once the criteria is met. they don't even have to get a passport, though, to save hassle they will often obtain a passport. all this will entail, is to go through the same procedures as we all would in order to get a passport with the addition of the parent providing evidence of 3 years legal residence. a flash of their passport and gnib card would normally do that. It gives nothing etra to the parent

    when you say "they" at the first part of your sentence, surely you do not believe that we are saying once the three year requirement is met then that parent can apply for citizenship himself? utter nonsense its the usual five years for them, or 3 in the situation where they marry on irish citizen or are refugees. and nothing has been said to say that the parent can then get citizens if they wish by the 3 years. you are correct, the parent can apply for ciizenship, once they meet their residency requirements, but it does not mean the minister will grant the citizenship.

    the scenerio two matter was in response to a post questioning why the certain children should be allowed citizenship were the parent is not a citizen nor intends to become an irish citizen. that was then followed by an example, later, to a legal chinese person who may not wish to get citizenship, or as you correctly state apply for citizenship, who is not allowed (by china) o dual citizenship.the point was, it would be unfair for the child, who would be entitled to the citizenship (by virtue of section 6a) where it is likely they have lived in ireland for most of their life, and may never have or never intend to set foot in china, unlike the parent(s)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,848 ✭✭✭bleg


    Trust me, you don't want to be irish.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭ragg


    bleg wrote: »
    Trust me, you don't want to be irish.
    Location: Cork

    I'd wager its you that doesn't want to be Irish


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lirael


    you are mistaken. please read the last couple of posts. i even posted the actual bloody legislation for your convenience. jesus if someone says black do you say white?

    If the non irish parent has resided in the state on a legal basis for three years prior to the birth of the child, then that child will be an irish citizen, by birth. they won't need to "apply" for citizenship. They will be considered citizens! the minister does not have the power to deny their entitlements to citizenship once the criteria is met. they don't even have to get a passport, though, to save hassle they will obtain a passport. all this will entail, is to go through the same proceures as we all would in order to get a passport with the addition of the parent providing evidence of 3 years legal residence. a flash of their passport and gnib card would normally do that.

    when you say "they" at the first part of your sentence, surely you do not believe that we are saying once the three year requirement is met then that parent can apply for citizenship himself? utter nonsense if that was the case.

    no, I am well aware that parents can apply for their citizenship after 5 years spent in Ireland ...

    I have just refferd to your post in case of the parents who lived there 7 years ... yes I might have misunderstood you previous post - I haven't read it all but still ... a small child cannot aply for a passport himself so still it is parents will to do so ... nevertheless this child is considered Irish by birth as u say ...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    bleg wrote: »
    Trust me, you don't want to be irish.

    eu citizenship?

    jesus man/woman, less of the self loathing and get on with things.learn from yer mistakes, never listen to gombeens from ff again and move onwards and upwards.ye probably had little problems being irish for the past 15 years


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Lirael



    the scenerio two matter was in response to a post questioning why the certain children should be allowed citizenship were the parent is not a citizen nor intends to become an irish citizen. that was then followed by an example, later, to a legal chinese person who may not wish to get citizenship, or as you correctly state apply for citizenship, who is not allowed (by china) o dual citizenship.the point was, it would be unfair for the child, who would be entitled to the citizenship (by virtue of section 6a) where it is likely they have lived in ireland for most of their life, and may never have or never intend to set foot in china, unlike the parent(s)

    good point - but in that case a decision shall be postponed until these kids reach 16 and then they may decide what cs would they want ... noo, bad idea, that's ridiculous, stupid etc ....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭kingtut


    Born in Ireland = Irish

    Not born in Ireland = Not Irish

    Doesn't matter how long you lived in your birth place for or where your parents are from.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    Lirael wrote: »
    good point - but in that case a decision shall be postponed until these kids reach 16 and then they may decide what cs would they want ... noo, bad idea, that's ridiculous, stupid etc ....

    why?

    The child would be entilted by birth to Irish citizenship if parents mets criteria of Section 6 A. that child is in the same boat as you or me.

    you are now making huge differences between the child's entitlement and privileges under Artilce 40-44 of the constitution (fundamental rights), solely on the basis of ethnicity / nationality of parent. It means that for 0-16 years (the most important stage of any person) they are being marked.it makes a mockery/joke then to the aspirations and goals of articles 2 and 3 of the constitution. why should the children be treated different to some fat half wit yank who has never resided in ireland and who knows feck all about Ireland, yet maybe entitled to Irish Citizenship from the day he/she was born, simply because his granny/grandad was born in Ireland? Its not exactly a good way to ensure these "foreigners" integrate into Irish society is it? Surely, the Irish child should not have to experience de facto legal discrimination on top of a possible chance children in the school yard will make it clear to him already that he is different due to the colour of his skin? By 16 the child will be looking at the career guidance books and cao points and thinking about their choices of college, like nearly every other Irish child. Whilst not every Irish child will get the grants and whilst some are liable to some college fees, the child that we are talking about, if he was not entitled to Irish Citizenship since birth or holds another passport of another EU State, would be liable to Huge college/univeristy fees. regardless of who there parents are, why should these children be dragged down to the gutter and there chances of improving themselves and contributing to Irish society like, Fiachra, Fionnula and Cabaiste, be curtailed?

    The child is likely to stay in Ireland anyway, so he or she ain't going to be a bigger burden on state resources if he is simply another immigrant (the continuation of the parents immigration status in Ireland, assuming they are not eu citizens will normally be heavily depended upon them being economically viable in the State). Moreover, are you aware of the crap immigrants have to put up with with the GNIB and INIS? do you realise that at the best of times, competence in said departments is not always the strong trait they possess.


  • Posts: 0 Aniya Old Album


    kingtut wrote: »
    Born in Ireland = Irish

    Not born in Ireland = Not Irish

    Doesn't matter how long you lived in your birth place for or where your parents are from.

    That's far too simplistic. So someone born in Ireland to two African parents, who left after a year, is Irish? And someone who came to Ireland as a toddler and has lived here ever since (and possibly had one or two Irish parents) is not Irish? Where you were born says absolutely nothing really. Loads of people are born in crazy places like Singapore or Tokyo because their parents were working there for a while. It's more about where you grew up, IMO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 283 ✭✭b12mearse


    Dr_Phil wrote: »
    Quick question, as a foreigner: when do you consider a person to be Irish:

    1. When has an Irish citizensip
    2. Was born in Ireland
    3. Born in Ireland from Irish parents, who were born from Irish parents, etc, etc..
    4. Is just well integrated into society and the lifestyle


    Cheers.

    never


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    I'm Irish...as well as Chinese (naturalised). Poo to anyone else who says otherwise.

    Born in China, English accent (spent a few of my early years there), lived in the US too for a year but I'm as Irish as the O'Flaherty or the O'Reillys (though admittedly I don't drink at all :D ).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    kingtut wrote: »
    Born in Ireland = Irish

    Not born in Ireland = Not Irish

    Doesn't matter how long you lived in your birth place for or where your parents are from.

    is that a statement of fact or opinion?

    What happens when John and Mary head off on a holiday during Mary's pregancy and gives birth whilst in eg Wales, London or Paris and the family return to Ireland? By your definition of the facts, the child won't be Irish?

    I'd say some of your Oirish cousins in London, Birmingham, Sydney or New York find you to be a barral of laughs. I sincerely hope the Irish State don't treat your future children or friends future children differently when they come into Ireland (visa / passport control wise) if you ever had to leave this country for work


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