We have fallen for it hook, line and sinker

gleep

PeakOutput wrote: »

aib just tried to hire a new ceo from outside the country under the salary cap. they couldnt. the result of this is someone from the old guard getting promoted to the position. so no new blood no new ideas just someone whose only experience is how e have been doing it already.

if we could get the two top banking guys in the world to run our banks but it cost 5million each imo we should do it. you get what you pay for imo

The man who ran HSBC into the ground was considered a top banker. He is now overseeing NAMA.
We don't need anyone who has been running a bank that has gone bust, (these guys are still lauded as the Top Men in Banking),we need someone who's presided over a prudent yet profitable bank. Pay them double what their earning now to get them in, if neccessary.

dvpower

Gurgle wrote: »

There should be an absolute cap at €150k for everybody whose salary is paid or whose employer is rescued by the state.

Why?
As collective punishment? Even for people whose skills are hard to find and who worked in divisions that had nothing to do with the current crisis?

hinault

gleep wrote: »

The man who ran HSBC into the ground was considered a top banker. He is now overseeing NAMA.
We don't need anyone who has been running a bank that has gone bust, (these guys are still lauded as the Top Men in Banking),we need someone who's presided over a prudent yet profitable bank. Pay them double what their earning now to get them in, if neccessary.

Exactly.

The profits reported by AIB and BOI from 2003-2008 were not profits.
They couldn't be.

It's clear that the banks have been insolvent for the past few years - because their loans (which is income, in the banks books), have now turned to dust (because the loans cannot be repaid by the people who borrowed those loans).

Brian Goggin - BOI CEO - received €23m in salary and benefits in 2003-2008.

The banks profits were delusional.
The CEO's pay was delusional because it was base don false profits.

And youc an apply that across the entire Irish banking sector.

Darragh29

It's funny how the people telling us that someone else must pay are all in the 100K plus club, union officials, TD's, bank CEO's...

seclachi

PeakOutput wrote: »

pat kenny is self employed

i think he is a boring ****e but loads of irish people apparently love him. if rte dosnt pay tv3 will then the people who like pat kenny will watch tv3 then rte will make less from advertising and therefore earn less money.you really have no idea what your talking about

Pat Kenny only gets paid what he does because RTE has two extra sources of income that TV3 doesnt, licence fees and government funding. There is no way TV3 could possibly pay him what RTE do, he would actually get a realistic wage there. This is the problem with government funding, when the cash is free and easy people become sloppy with it. Fair play to TV3 in my books, they have to make do in a horribly unbalanced market.

hinault wrote: »

I disagree about the CEO situation at AIB.

The United States of America has ordered that all those banks who received govt help must adopt a salary cap $500k per annum.
(That's about €375k).
That policy has been applied without fear or favour.
You get bailed by the State, you play by State rules.

Ireland and America are not the same place, were a small nation while america is huge, in order for us to do the to same thing we would have to convince the entire EU to cap wages in order to stop the bankers from going to the UK or mainland.

In the US they are pretty much limited to canada and mexico, I cant imagine insane wages in mexico, and there would be alot of competition for Canada. the US banks have take there cut and lump it.

I am disgusted by the banks though, the government should have sweeped out the old management, they clearly are still trying to save there own necks through this whole thing.

jetsonx

achtungbarry wrote: »

All week I have heard pepole bashing the public sector and public sector people defending themselves. People, they have played you all and you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

All the while folks............. nobody is talking about how to deal with how to deal with those who got us in to this mess in the first place

ie. Fianna Fail, the bankers and the developers.

They have played us for fools and we fell for it.

Excellent Posting. The government have treated us like kids as we squable over the crumbs ( 4 Billion Euro) of a huge credit binge...while they p1ss away 28 Billion to Anglo-Irish and 24 Billion to AIB. This is the real issue. The strategy of the government worked a charm. The Joe Duffy brigade have fallen for it, the Unions have fallen for it and it makes great newsprint for the newspapers as all the public V private workers go for each others throats.

Funny how Nama never went to referendum.

As the fighting continues the bankers, developers, legal profession, "consultants" are all planning their next feast from the giant NAMA coffers. They all must get up in the morning and laugh to themselves as a complete monkey has been made of the average-wage, 3 bedroom-semi working person in Ireland.

The circus will continue.

seclachi

jetsonx wrote: »

Funny how Nama never went to referendum.

They were quite right, judging from the bile im hearing from everybody in the country every attempt a solution that a bank would have benefited from would have been shot down.

A country cant be managed on public opinion alone...

Daithinski

PeakOutput wrote: »

right now its time to fix the mess

then its time to worry about who got us into this mess

sorting the public sector helps us fix the mess faster

going on a rampage of punishment while satisfying wont fix the economy

No, but it might stop the us peasants revolting if we see the people that caused this mess, having to take a proportionate dose of pain.

jetsonx

jetsonx wrote: »

Excellent Posting. The government have treated us like kids as we squable over the crumbs ( 4 Billion Euro) of a huge credit binge...while they p1ss away 28 Billion to Anglo-Irish and 24 Billion to AIB. This is the real issue. The strategy of the government worked a charm. The Joe Duffy brigade have fallen for it, the Unions have fallen for it and it makes great newsprint for the newspapers as all the public V private workers go for each others throats.

Funny how Nama never went to referendum.

As the fighting continues the bankers, developers, legal profession, "consultants" are all planning their next feast from the giant NAMA coffers. They all must get up in the morning and laugh to themselves as a complete monkey has been made of the average-wage, 3 bedroom-semi working person in Ireland.

The circus will continue.

Thats just more un thought out rubbish...

Are you listening to reason at all?
What do you think international bankers would say if the government asked for €20 billion to run the country??!!

As regards Nama not going to referendum...tell me does a budget ever go to referendum? or most government decisions?
Did the nationalisation or bail out of any of the other western countries banks go to referendum?
No
Reason-because governing isn't easy and the time to throw out this one comes in 2012.
If we had to put things to a referendum everytime theres hard decisions to be made,we'd be in a state of anarchy.
Everything would grind to a halt.



Do you realise that even if we nationalised the banks,we'd end up with their liabilities? so no way out really.
Not that that has anything to do with the totally independent problem that we spend almost 500 million more than we earn to pay for our public service.
That has to stop.

Darragh29

jetsonx wrote: »

Excellent Posting. The government have treated us like kids as we squable over the crumbs ( 4 Billion Euro) of a huge credit binge...while they p1ss away 28 Billion to Anglo-Irish and 24 Billion to AIB. This is the real issue. The strategy of the government worked a charm. The Joe Duffy brigade have fallen for it, the Unions have fallen for it and it makes great newsprint for the newspapers as all the public V private workers go for each others throats.

Funny how Nama never went to referendum.

As the fighting continues the bankers, developers, legal profession, "consultants" are all planning their next feast from the giant NAMA coffers. They all must get up in the morning and laugh to themselves as a complete monkey has been made of the average-wage, 3 bedroom-semi working person in Ireland.

The circus will continue.

The political system has failed in this country. You can't even ask for a general election anymore because the opposition are worse than the people in government. Imagine the people who stood up to the plate back in 1916, being afraid to make a break for it because the alternative would be even worse than what they were trying to overthrow????

Well Darragh,you have people to blame for that not the parties really.
Theres no concensus among the people and the opposition are playing a fine line trying to be populist.

FG have some sense.
Labours problem is they are too close to the unions.
I heard Eamon Gilmore side stepping the 12 days leave issue on news talk yesterday altogether.
He just did not want to give a view on it and this looked to me like he didn't want to upset the unions.

I don't trust people who try to be all things to all men and women.

I do think the guy is trying to be as sincere as possible but his hands are tied.

kaymin

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats just more un thought out rubbish...

Are you listening to reason at all?
What do you think international bankers would say if the government asked for €20 billion to run the country??!!

But Ireland is already going to the international markets looking to raise this amount of money - you can see what the international bankers are saying - they're demanding higher interest rates.

Deleted User wrote: »

As regards Nama not going to referendum...tell me does a budget ever go to referendum? or most government decisions?
Did the nationalisation or bail out of any of the other western countries banks go to referendum?
No
Reason-because governing isn't easy and the time to throw out this one comes in 2012.
If we had to put things to a referendum everytime theres hard decisions to be made,we'd be in a state of anarchy.
Everything would grind to a halt.

I think something as big as NAMA / bank bailouts should go to a referendum as it will affect generations to come. The fact that the government has such a low level of support from the public makes a referendum even more necessary.

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you realise that even if we nationalised the banks,we'd end up with their liabilities? so no way out really.

How about wiping out the equity shareholders and forcing the bond holders to suffer some of the pain? Nationalisation v NAMA are the not the only alternatives.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not that that has anything to do with the totally independent problem that we spend almost 500 million more than we earn to pay for our public service.
That has to stop.

Amen

irish_bob

achtungbarry wrote: »

I've been reading boards and listening to people with dismay over the last few days.

We have threads started by people claiming "victory" over the public sector.

We constanly have arguments between public and private sector workers.

All week I have heard pepole bashing the public sector and public sector people defending themselves.

We even have people here saying fair play to Cowen, fair play to the FF back benchers and how Cowen is clever etc.

They certainly are clever at least.

People, they have played you all and you have fallen for it hook line and sinker.

We argue.

All the while folks............. nobody is talking about how to deal with how to deal with those who got us in to this mess in the first place

ie. Fianna Fail, the bankers and the developers.

We are fighting amongst ourselves, reveling in each others misfortunes and these guys are laughing at us because they are getting away scot free.

Fianna Fail treat us with contempt, the bankers and builders are being bailed out by NAMA and we the ordinary people are fighting amongst ourselves.

They (Fianna Fail and their developer/banker mates) have played us for fools and I'll say it again we fell for it hook line and sinker.

It is incredible to see people praising the FF back benchers for finally "listening to the people"

"listening to the people" Bull !

They are only playing the populist card in a desperate attempt to hang on to their seats yet people here on boards and elsewhere have fallen for it.

If there has been any "victory" here, it is not the general public over the public sector or "people power" or anything else.

The only victory over the last few days is by thiose who got us in to this mess (FF, bankers, developers). They have us fighting amongst ourselves instead of calling for their heads.

They have played us for fools and we fell for it.

straight from s.i.p.t.u headquaters

Darragh29

Deleted User wrote: »

Well Darragh,you have people to blame for that not the parties really.
Theres no concensus among the people and the opposition are playing a fine line trying to be populist.

FG have some sense.
Labours problem is they are too close to the unions.
I heard Eamon Gilmore side stepping the 12 days leave issue on news talk yesterday altogether.
He just did not want to give a view on it and this looked to me like he didn't want to upset the unions.

I don't trust people who try to be all things to all men and women.

I do think the guy is trying to be as sincere as possible but his hands are tied.

Well my view on this is that I think I'm a pretty good judge of character. I've worked for myself for a good few years now and I think I can say I've developed a pretty well honed sense now for those with ability, those with none, those who think they have but haven't and those that are downright useless, those that think they are entitled and those that think they have landed a cushy number...

I look at Eamon Gilmore and Enda Kenny and I see two useless people who in all probability don't know the price of a sliced pan or a jug of milk, but feel qualified to tell us that they know how to fix the problems of this country...

This country has one major problem and only one problem and that is that is suffers from what I call pseudo-leaders. Not just in the world of politics, but you can see it here now in full flight, in business, we don't have real leaders anywhere in this country. We have people who think they are leaders but who lack the attributes that real leaders have. They can give you the buzz words and play bullsh*t bingo with you all day long, but give them a real problem to resolve and they are bamboozled.

We can see it in our workplaces every single day, the boss who drives into work in the '09 BMW 5 Series but can't manage anything, he can't deal with problems, he can't get people to work towards a common purpose, so people leave because they become frustrated with his "leadership/management style"...

There was a saying years ago that "the mere desire to be a politican ought immediately to disqualify a person from ever becoming one" and I think this is very appropriate to this country...

Eamon Gilmore talks as if he is up there somewhere above us, he comes across as an aloof gimp. Up until last week, he was talking pure and utter SH*TE about "finding efficiencies and hidden savings", talking in the politically coded bullsh*t language of evasion again and making fools of the rest of us in the process...

I don't want to be spoken down to by Eamon Gilmore and downright patronised by a man who thinks I am so thick, that I'll believe him when he says that there are 1.3 billion Euro's worth of "hidden savings and efficiencies" in the public sector and that we can keep over paying our public sector workers and somehow spend the next ten years rooting and rummaging around for these elusive savings and efficiencies, while the unions obstruct change and reform...

hinault

Darragh29 wrote: »

This country has one major problem and only one problem and that is that is suffers from what I call pseudo-leaders. Not just in the world of politics, but you can see it here now in full flight, in business, we don't have real leaders anywhere in this country. We have people who think they are leaders but who lack the attributes that real leaders have. They can give you the buzz words and play bullsh*t bingo with you all day long, but give them a real problem to resolve and they are bamboozled.

We can see it in our workplaces every single day, the boss who drives into work in the '09 BMW 5 Series but can't manage anything, he can't deal with problems, he can't get people to work towards a common purpose, so people leave because they become frustrated with his "leadership/management style"...

I think this goes for all sectors, politics/banking/medical profession, another.

In most cases the useless get to the top of the pile:)

Do you think that Prof.Bredan Drumm could run an A&E ward?
Do you think Eugene Sheehy could sit at a till all day and reconcile his takings/outgoings at the end of the day?
I doubt it.

Could Eugene Sheehy actually explain to me the workings of the international financial markets?
Probably not.

The people at the top are there - they're supposed to hire the best talent available to get the job done and they're supposed to manage that talent. That's how it would appear.

irish_bob

Barker wrote: »

Yeah. 14% unemployment. It's huge. 425000 or thereabouts on the live register. Thats over 14% of the working age population (using my own very quick calculations based on 2006 census and ignoring the over 65s and children under 15).

The problem is that public sector workers only talk to other public sector workers in the work place. So they can't feel the agony that is there for those people who have been put into this position. They are not seeing their workmates laid off in droves, wondering is it going to be them next and their family who have to cancel christmas.

They are removed from it, and they represent the largest section of the populace that can make a difference to the overspending. I can understand why they feel they are being picked on as a group, it's because they are! For a good reason. There's not enough tax payers left to justify your holidays, sick days, duvet days or whatever else you get as perks. I certainly hope they don't get christmas bonuses.

I recall plenty of public servants who have taken a paid duvet day because they decided they had worked hard and deserved it. Anyone who has done that deserves everything that comes to them. A friend of mine reports getting a text during the strike from a teacher that read "Anyone coming for Strike Pints?". Other teacher friends seem to have taken laods of holidays abroad too this year. Its a different feckin world I tell ya.

excellent post , in terms of workplace , the public sector is still living in a pre rescession bubble , they have not witnessed mass lay offs , thier wages are still ( excluding the average 4% levy ) at boom time levels for the most part , as such , they cant see what all the fuss is about when they cry UNFAIR at the mention of their wages being reduced , the public sectors rescesson ( and it will be mild compared to that experienced by most people )has only really begun , two years after it hit everyone else

Darragh29

hinault wrote: »

I think this goes for all sectors, politics/banking/medical profession, another.

In most cases the useless get to the top of the pile:)

Do you think that Prof.Bredan Drumm could run an A&E ward?
Do you think Eugene Sheehy could sit at a till all day and reconcile his takings/outgoings at the end of the day?
I doubt it.

Could Eugene Sheehy actually explain to me the workings of the international financial markets?
Probably not.

The people at the top are there - they're supposed to hire the best talent available to get the job done and they're supposed to manage that talent. That's how it would appear.

The source of this problem is that our people and country are inherently corrupt. We have all probably worked in a job where those that got into management positions are related to the business owner or play golf with the decision makers.

Think about this, humans are the most complex entities on the universe, we wouldn't let an unqualfiied pilot take a 737 out of Dublin airport, but we allow people with no qualification whatsoever get into management and leadership positions in this country, without question or concern to our own welfare.

Leadership is something that we don't take seriously in this country, we fail to see the value of real leadership, we listen to the surface argument all the time and fail to probe and subject to proper scrutiny, those that put themselves up for leadership positions in this country...

Thankfully this crisis we are in, might make us change our attitude in this regard...

irish_bob

Barker wrote: »

So we should have paid more for the bankers over the last few years and we wouldn't be in this mess, is that what you infer?

the banking crisis only compounds our problems , it is not the reason we are short revenue , nor is it the reason public sector wages and wellfare must be cut , the collapse of the property boom which employed thousands and which taxes funded the highest paid public sector in europe , is the reason we are where we are , many countries have a banking crisis , only ireland had a one trick pony economy and a gargantuan public spending bill to fund with this now dead pony

Darragh29

irish_bob wrote: »

the banking crisis only compounds our problems , it is not the reason we are short revenue , nor is it the reason public sector wages and wellfare must be cut , the collapse of the property boom which employed thousands and which taxes funded the highest paid public sector in europe , is the reason we are where we are , many countries have a banking crisis , only ireland had a one trick pony economy and a gargantuan public spending bill to fund with this now dead pony

The thing is, this problem is actually resolved easily enough. We just need to go back to before the boom (I think we are already there), and start creating new jobs, there is plenty of money in this economy, people are just not spending it because they are terrified out of their wits...

There is no leadership so nothing happens, because our leaders are so weak, what we need to do now is get rid of this government, and start working on a new political entity that represents those out there that have hope and that want to trade their way out of this absolute mess...

hinault

Darragh29 wrote: »

The source of this problem is that our people and country are inherently corrupt. We have all probably worked in a job where those that got into management positions are related to the business owner or play golf with the decision makers.

Think about this, humans are the most complex entities on the universe, we wouldn't let an unqualfiied pilot take a 737 out of Dublin airport, but we allow people with no qualification whatsoever get into management and leadership positions in this country, without question or concern to our own welfare.

Leadership is something that we don't take seriously in this country, we fail to see the value of real leadership, we listen to the surface argument all the time and fail to probe and subject to proper scrutiny, those that put themselves up for leadership positions in this country...

Thankfully this crisis we are in, might make us change our attitude in this regard...

................but you seem to be focussing solely on the politicians.
Are you seriously trying to suggest that the CEO's of the banks, fulfill any leadership criteria?
Banks that were supposedly making billions in profits between 2000-2008 suddenly turned to dust!


What about the dearth of leadership at the top of the HSE, Dept of Finance, AIB, Anglo Irish?

The politicians are culpable..............but so are the people at the top of the Dept of Finance, HSE, FAS, AIB.

Barker

irish_bob wrote: »

the banking crisis only compounds our problems , it is not the reason we are short revenue , nor is it the reason public sector wages and wellfare must be cut , the collapse of the property boom which employed thousands and which taxes funded the highest paid public sector in europe , is the reason we are where we are , many countries have a banking crisis , only ireland had a one trick pony economy and a gargantuan public spending bill to fund with this now dead pony

I totally agree. The inefficiencies of the public sector/services need to be addressed and sorted out, and wake people up, but at the same time the major issue is not what has been lost in terms of money, but how we have any chance of creating the jobs that are so desperately needed - not only to get people off the social welfare but to give this government an income from income tax.

It's not all about cuts, it's about creating jobs. This is the major failing of all parties since the recession started - that they have had no imiagination regarding job creation. The budget needs to address this, but I doubt we'll see much money going towards upskilling the unemployed or funds put aside to encourage people to go self-employed etc. There need to be incentives here somewhere for people to stay in this country, otherwise people are just going to try and make a life elsewhere. Who's going to pay the wages of the public sector then? It'll just mean more cuts.

hinault

Darragh29 wrote: »

The thing is, this problem is actually resolved easily enough. We just need to go back to before the boom (I think we are already there), and start creating new jobs, there is plenty of money in this economy, people are just not spending it because they are terrified out of their wits...

There is no leadership so nothing happens, because our leaders are so weak, what we need to do now is get rid of this government, and start working on a new political entity that represents those out there that have hope and that want to trade their way out of this absolute mess...

There is no leadership in industry either.

that's not to exonerate the politicans.....................all sides were culpable in this mess.

And don't be under any illusions the mess is of guargantuan proportions.

Drumpot

Just playing the devils advocate here but are there many GOOD leaders around the world at the moment ?

One could argue that all Obama has done is look good on TV and live off the goodwill that he still has . .

Brown and Cowen were dropped into a Sh*tstorm by their "whiter then white" very popular public predecessors.

A good leader in my opinion would go further with the public service cuts and increase income tax (and reduce VAT, to reduce reliance on consumption). .

I would make an address to the nation and basically say that the next 3 years are going to be crippling tough for us all, but if we take substantially more pain now , we will come out better in the longer term. .

Easy for me to say . . But at least I have some sort of vision . . The one thing worse then making the wrong decisions, is procrastinating while the country rips itself apart and hemorrhages money . .

Darragh29

Drumpot wrote: »

Just playing the devils advocate here but are there many GOOD leaders around the world at the moment ?

One could argue that all Obama has done is look good on TV and live off the goodwill that he still has . .

Brown and Cowen were dropped into a Sh*tstorm by their "whiter then white" very popular public predecessors.

A good leader in my opinion would go further with the public service cuts and increase income tax (and reduce VAT, to reduce reliance on consumption). .

I would make an address to the nation and basically say that the next 3 years are going to be crippling tough for us all, but if we take substantially more pain now , we will come out better in the longer term. .

Easy for me to say . . But at least I have some sort of vision . . The one thing worse then making the wrong decisions, is procrastinating while the country rips itself apart and hemorrhages money . .

Part of the problem here I think is that we don't know where the top of the pay scale is for the public sector in this country... There should be a ceiling put on salaries this budget day to draw a line under the madness that has middle ranking civil servants on 70K plus a year... You should not be able to earn more than 150K a year while in public employment, exceptions NONE.

As an example, Cowen should draw his own salary back down to this ceiling and stop making ineffective token gestures on income. Bump it back down to 150K and feel some fu*king pain like the rest of us. Then you will be in a position to tell others to take a SUBSTANTIAL cut.

The 4 billion savings will be eliminated by those addded to the dole queue this year and next, and also the 1.8 billion in tax shortfalls that we have witnessed this year.

Fannying around with 4-7% pay cuts will not do anywhere near enough to sort this out, those on the massive salaries need to be defaulted down to a new maximum salary for the public sector. If people want to leave their jobs as a consequence of that decision, if they want to turn their noses up at a 150K a year salary, then we should not just tell them to FU*K OFF, we should buy them a one way Ryanair ticket out of the state and let them see how they fare out elsewhere...

What is needed here is pure surgery, no fannying around with checking for reflexes and looking for wax in the ear, take out the scalpel Lenihan and cut deep and hard...

Barker

Darragh29 wrote: »

Cowen...Bump it back down to 150K and feel some fu*king pain like the rest of us. ..

Sorry, agree with your post but that bit is funny.

PeakOutput

Barker wrote: »

So we should have paid more for the bankers over the last few years and we wouldn't be in this mess, is that what you infer?

i believe the system needs changing cutting the legs out from under them before they begin to change it by not letting them get the top talent in is ****ing retarded.

jetsonx wrote: »

while they p1ss away 28 Billion to Anglo-Irish and 24 Billion to AIB. This is the real issue.

give us an alternative please

Funny how Nama never went to referendum.

why would it? the goverment that was elected has made the decision to fix the country, thats their job

As the fighting continues the bankers, developers, legal profession, "consultants" are all planning their next feast from the giant NAMA coffers. They all must get up in the morning and laugh to themselves as a complete monkey has been made of the average-wage, 3 bedroom-semi working person in Ireland.

The circus will continue.

the only circus is people like you going on like they know what they are talking about. do you actually understand how nama is going to work or did you just read a headline 50+billion been given to bankers and then flew off the handle about it?

Daithinski wrote: »

No, but it might stop the us peasants revolting if we see the people that caused this mess, having to take a proportionate dose of pain.

dont make me laugh there wont be a revolt either way the public service is going to kick up a stink but when they see the general public is against them it will be shortlived everyone else is happy to have their jobs and the people on the dole have no organisation. the only revolt will the be satisfaction of decimating ff in the next election. please god that wont result in labour being in power

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you realise that even if we nationalised the banks,we'd end up with their liabilities? so no way out really.
Not that that has anything to do with the totally independent problem that we spend almost 500 million more than we earn to pay for our public service.
That has to stop.

+1 argue with those two facts please

Barker

PeakOutput wrote: »

cutting the legs out from under them before they begin to change it by not letting them get the top talent in is ****ing retarded.

You don't think two years of recession is enough time to have implemented some changes?

PeakOutput

Barker wrote: »

You don't think two years of recession is enough time to have implemented some changes?

im talking about gutting out all the old people bringing in new ones and letting them decide on the best leaders to carry the business forward

this hasnt been done its the same people that are there using the same methodologies

this must change

it wont change unless the goverment firstly force it to happeb but secondly allow them the means to do it ie paying the ceos what they are worth

namenotavailablE

I think it's worth noting the example offered by CEO's on the other side of the pond- Alan Mullaly [Ford], Vikram Pandit [Citigroup], Larry Ellison [Oracle], Rick Wagoner [GM], Bob Nardelli [Chrysler].

All of these CEO's have agreed to work for $1 per year until their companies return to profitability. With the exception of Larry Ellison (and possibly Alan Mullaly- not sure about that), all of the companies under their stewardship received significant US government aid. Larry Ellison agreed his salary reduction in light of the weak economy.

Obviously, all of these CEO's are very wealthy from their careers so they won't starve due to their straitened circumstances. However, the same could surely be said about our own bank executives (whose companies are also receiving enormous sums of state cash).

Worth remembering....

RGS

Most Public servants are married or have family in the private sector and are not immune to the job losses etc. As a family i work in the private sector an my wife in the public sector.

Its amazing that a proposal of unpaid leave in the public service is dismissed as a stunt when its use in the private sector is deemed good management of resources and prudent salary savings.

Public sector are asked to look at the private sector and copy their work practices but when they copy the private sector they are scoffed at and accused of living in lala land.

The suggestion that overtaxing high earners will mean these high earners will go and work elsewhere is utter rubbish--where will they go and who will employ them? Our overpaid bankers are non an employment currency.

I accept the need for prudent management of the public finances and pay cuts are required but our top earners need to lead.
The proposal that Cowen will reduce his salary to €220,000 is a total joke, he will still be close to the top of the league table for european leaders.