Stop child benefit to middle/high income parents?

stainluss

nipplenuts wrote: »

So, what you are saying is: If I sit at home and breed I should get child benefit, but if I work my ass off and earn a decent living I should be penalised?

Is that what you are saying?

First off, youre not being penalised. You are living a normal life and able to provide for your children.

Secondly, if you sit at home and breed, doing **** all work, your kids should get child benefit, because their parents are lazy and unable to provide, the children should not be penalized (as you put it)
(That said, most who need child benfit work hard, they just arent getting paid very well.
Though it happens, many middle class cling to the perception of all people on lower income who need these benfits as lazy people who just keep producing kids. In most cases, the people who get it are trying there best but need a little help)

Pete4779

stainluss wrote: »

I understand that children can't work and get an allowance because of this, but i dont think all families (esp. the rich) should get it.

To make it extra fair, also stop making the "rich" familes from paying it for everyone else.

Where do you think money comes from? The magic money tree?

stainluss

eamon234 wrote: »

You obviously don't have kids. It involves slightly more than feeding and clothing them.

I use those two essentials as an example, you know what i mean.:rolleyes:

I mean all essentials for children

And no, i dont.

My name is URL

SLUSK wrote: »

Scrap child benefits, privatize education altogether. If you can't afford kids, don't get them.

Sure lets go all out and introduce a One-child Policy like communist China :rolleyes:

If people don't have kids because they can't support them then who will support the childless couples in their old age?

It's a very simplistic view to have on the whole thing tbh, and easy to picture when you're not in a position where conceiving is likely.. ie single or whatever

RealityCheck

Pete4779 wrote: »

To make it extra fair, also stop making the "rich" familes from paying it for everyone else.

Where do you think money comes from? The magic money tree?

God theres an awful amount of liberal right wingers on here tonight .

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

CeNedra

The reason for child benefit is to encourage people to have children. The reality is that without a reproductive % of more than 2.x per couple (x = some number that I can't remember off the top of my head) we will be in trouble i.e. we won't have enough working people in the coming years to support pensions etc etc. Declining birthrates are not something Govts want, you want a thriving birth rate ..... hence an encouragement to people to have kids i.e. child benefit, long maternity leave etc etc etc.

It may be something that we can no longer afford ... but then again we can't afford a declining birth rate ............

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ntlbell

stainluss wrote: »

I mean all essentials for children

Like gripe water

(in house parents joke, you won't get it ner ner ner ner ner)

My name is URL

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Catch 22 much?

The people referred to are too 'poor' to have kids, so saving for retirement wouldn't be so easy presumably

ntlbell

My name is URL wrote: »

Catch 22 much?

The people refereed to are too 'poor' to have kids, so saving for retirement wouldn't be so easy presumably

It's grand, they can sponge around in the state nursing home's

what's the biggie?

stainluss

Pete4779 wrote: »

To make it extra fair, also stop making the "rich" familes from paying it for everyone else.

Where do you think money comes from? The magic money tree?

I understand your feelings, but where else would the get the money.

Some middle class workers would even be paying for their own child benefit:)
It should be treated as a charity contibution because thats what it is.
Just to recap, its for the kids, not the parents.

At the moment, youre taxes are paying for child benefit for those who dont deserve it and probably use it to pay a butler.:P

How does this make you feel?
Yes, its in Frankfurt:p

jhegarty

stainluss wrote: »

and probably use it to pay a butler.:P

So your idea of a middle/high earner is someone who has a butler ?

ntlbell

jhegarty wrote: »

So your idea of a middle/high earner is someone who has a butler ?

I think the hint was in the :P <--- ?

Mr. Presentable

stainluss wrote: »

First off, youre not being penalised. You are living a normal life and able to provide for your children.

Secondly, if you sit at home and breed, doing **** all work, your kids should get child benefit, because their parents are lazy and unable to provide, the children should not be penalized (as you put it)
(That said, most who need child benfit work hard, they just arent getting paid very well.
Though it happens, many middle class cling to the perception of all people on lower income who need these benfits as lazy people who just keep producing kids. In most cases, the people who get it are trying there best but need a little help)

If I am not getting the benefit, why would I contribute to you getting it? I'd sooner spend it on birth control or sterilisation for those who can't live and breed within their means.........

tudlytops

I totally get you, i was a financial analyst and entitled to children allowance, but if I'm to be honest I didn't need it.

Children allowance should be means tested as should all other benefits, all of them.

People like moaning, to me is simple if you can't afford to have children, then don't have them.

We live in a nanny state, whatever happens there will be a benefit for it, claim for this or that, social welfare will sort it out.

Mr. Presentable

stainluss wrote: »

I understand that children can't work and get an allowance because of this, but i dont think all families (esp. the rich) should get it.

I believe this because children in middle/high income families will get plenty off their parents, but those whose parents can only earn enough to take care of themselves should get some money for their children.

Now would be a good time to impose this as the economy is leaking money and we need to think of simple ways to cut govt. expenditure.

Thoughts?

If you only want thoughts that agree with your own, why bother starting the thread? It comes across as mealy-mouthed and agendaist.

And let's call a spade a spade here: Those who don't provide for their children are not using the child benefit to provide for them either. If it is truly to be for the benefit of the child it should be in the form of clothing and food etc where required. Not cash.

tudlytops

And another thing if they want people to go to work, its simple, make all those on benefit, do a course or attend a job centre from 9am to at least 4PM, if they don't show up don't pay them their benefits, children or no children.

they would so get a job, because they could make more money working 9 to 4 then they would on benefits.

And don't tell me people with children can't, I have children and have always worked, when i had my frist baby i was working 12 hour days as a security guard, all I could get, paid 2 child minders, yes it was hard but my children will never think money comes from the post office.

tudlytops

If it is truly to be for the benefit of the child it should be in the form of clothing and food etc where required. Not cash.[/quote]


Yes what a great idea

ntlbell

tudlytops wrote: »

Yes what a great idea

the problem is the cost to admin it.

deafeats the purpose.

stainluss

nipplenuts wrote: »

If you only want thoughts that agree with your own, why bother starting the thread? It comes across as mealy-mouthed and agendaist.

I wanted to see what people thought about my idea.

I dont have an agenda, im not a politician, it just seems that saving money for the govt. is on everybodys lips, i had some thoughts of my own.

I argue back because some people didnt understand what i meant and how it would help (people who thought i meant people wouldnt be able to afford raising kids,i just meant cutting it for the wealthier.)

HollyB

What about abolishing child benefit altogether and compensating by introducing refundable tax credits for children? People on low incomes would get the full benefit that way. The allowance for child dependants for people on social welfare could be raised to compensate for the fact that they're not getting child benefit as a separate payment.

stainluss

tudlytops wrote: »

And another thing if they want people to go to work, its simple, make all those on benefit, do a course or attend a job centre from 9am to at least 4PM, if they don't show up don't pay them their benefits, children or no children.

they would so get a job, because they could make more money working 9 to 4 then they would on benefits.

And don't tell me people with children can't, I have children and have always worked, when i had my frist baby i was working 12 hour days as a security guard, all I could get, paid 2 child minders, yes it was hard but my children will never think money comes from the post office.

What about those who do work and recieve child benefit due to poor wages?

RealityCheck

tudlytops wrote: »

And another thing if they want people to go to work, its simple, make all those on benefit, do a course or attend a job centre from 9am to at least 4PM, if they don't show up don't pay them their benefits, children or no children.

they would so get a job, because they could make more money working 9 to 4 then they would on benefits.

And don't tell me people with children can't, I have children and have always worked, when i had my frist baby i was working 12 hour days as a security guard, all I could get, paid 2 child minders, yes it was hard but my children will never think money comes from the post office.

The problem with that however is we have rocketing unemployment with very little employment opportunities. If things steadied it might hold more potential.

However, the way I see it is, with the country in the present hole there is'nt a hope in hell of the perceived welfare state surviving with the cuts required to keep the country afloat. So I suspect all these arguments about fairness and equality will be futile at best. We can only afford to spend what we take in in tax after all.

tudlytops

ntlbell wrote: »

the problem is the cost to admin it.

deafeats the purpose.

Only on the short-term, as people went back to work Ireland would actually save money.

There are many ways, take Medical cards, why does one have to go to the doc to get a prescription for head lice treatment, when can't you just go to the chemist show your card and get it, it would save by not having to pay the doc visit, there are meny items that people go to the doctors just to get a medical card prescription with no need.

I was once made to go to hospital just to be told the tests were clear, all fine, this could have been done by letter, a lot cheaper.

there's so much they could do.

Clamp down on people working and claiming, making them go to a job centre would also stop this.

And help people with disabilities get jobs, most of them actually want to work.

RealityCheck

tudlytops wrote: »

Only on the short-term, as people went back to work Ireland would actually save money.

But we need the savings now.

tudlytops wrote: »

There are many ways, take Medical cards, why does one have to go to the doc to get a prescription for head lice treatment, when can't you just go to the chemist show your card and get it, it would save by not having to pay the doc visit, there are meny items that people go to the doctors just to get a medical card prescription with no need.

I was once made to go to hospital just to be told the tests were clear, all fine, this could have been done by letter, a lot cheaper.

there's so much they could do.

Clamp down on people working and claiming, making them go to a job centre would also stop this.

And help people with disabilities get jobs, most of them actually want to work.

You make good points there. We need to remove the red tape culture which keeps many of the administrators cripppling our resources in a job.

tudlytops

RealityCheck wrote: »

The problem with that however is we have rocketing unemployment with very little employment opportunities. If things steadied it might hold more potential.

However, the way I see it is, with the country in the present hole there is'nt a hope in hell of the perceived welfare state surviving with the cuts required to keep the country afloat. So I suspect all these arguments about fairness and equality will be futile at best. We can only afford to spend what we take in in tax after all.

The welfare situation in Ireland is nothing new, its always been far to easy to stay on benefits.

Now the ones that for a reason or another really can't work will pay the price.

tudlytops

RealityCheck wrote: »

But we need the savings now.



You make good points there. We need to remove the red tape culture which keeps many of the administrators cripppling our resources in a job.

I understand we need the savings now, but there are no quick fixes and running a country is no easy job, we should invest in the future, so the next recession won't hit us as hard.

Cutting benefits now even if needed is wrong.

If they really wanted to all they needed to do is what the French do, tax 1% a year to every one with over 1 million euro, in cash or invested, on second homes, luxury cars, etc., they would soon make their money, but it would hit the politicians and their friends, we can't have that can we.

PatrickD32

They should stop issuing child allowance to foreigners with residency here, who get it even though their children are not and have never been in this county.


Giving money over to foreigners to spend and add to their own economy, doesnt make sense.

tudlytops

i was wondering when the foreign issue would pop up.

I think there is a system that if you don't claim children allowance in your country you can claim in the country you working, after all they are paying taxes here, not back in their country.


Foreigners aren't the problem, remember that there arre also many Irish abroad helping the economy here.

Not long ago on the news they were talikng about Irish living in the UK and coming here once a month to sign on, say yes I'm looking for a Job, that's fine here is your money, and then they return to the UK to claim there to.

Organization Ireland is so disorganized.