Stop child benefit to middle/high income parents?

oh well

some schools will leave you off if don't pay voluntary contribs but other schools will hound you time and again and embarrass your childen. They send out reminders that you haven't paid your voluntary contrib, they ask your children "to tell your parents we are still waiting your contrib".


The point about nobody should have kids if the child benefit is that crucial to them is true... ..... all well and good but no one knows when they might become unemployed or maybe injured so that they can't work anymore, etc and may have to rely on welfare.

mikemac

oh well wrote: »

some schools will leave you off if don't pay voluntary contribs but other schools will hound you time and again and embarrass your childen. They send out reminders that you haven't paid your voluntary contrib, they ask your children "to tell your parents we are still waiting your contrib".

The Dept of Education has a budget of nine billion or so. And they hassle parents for more??

Oh I'm no fan of Joe Duffy but there is a call and a discussion waiting to be made.

Makes me mad just reading your post :mad:
Of course the school secretary can write letters to the parents but the children should never be involved or dragged into this!

old boy

ninty9er wrote: »

What makes you think Child Benefit facilitates this?

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, the poor are entitled to some pleasure.

ninty9er

old boy wrote: »

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, the poor are entitled to some pleasure.

That's your children, what I'm saying is just because people are getting this money doesn't mean that they spend it on their kids.

old boy

ninty9er wrote: »

That's your children, what I'm saying is just because people are getting this money doesn't mean that they spend it on their kids.

so please enlighten the populance

Lemondrop kid

Facinating, the tone on this thread compared to the thread on social welfare cuts;)

ninty9er

old boy wrote: »

so please enlighten the populance

It doesn't take a genius to work out that there are thousands of neglected kids in this country whose parents can still afford to smoke and have a few pints down the local.

This is what child benefit is paying for in a lot of cases, I'm not going to say a majority or anywhere near, but a significant number in any case.

Clown Shoes

Why do you think our govt keeps handing out social welfare and child benefit money to dead beats who just sit around in pubs drinking and smoking all day?

Probably because they take most of it back in excise and VAT. I tink the tax is at more than 6e on a packet of cigs!

tudlytops

old boy wrote: »

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, .

"clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework" - I don't know how much you getting but mine when i was getting it would never pay for all of these.


"my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online)"

What's wrong with the library, they have internet and its free, what happen to books, etc.

"the poor are entitled to some pleasure",

I hear a lot about the so called poor, i have friends in places like Moyross, so called desavanteged areas, get real, they have creches for €20 a week, they have play grounds, free courses, they pay the kids to go to school cause they won't go otherwise, etc, etc.

i was living and working in Shannon town, there were no child care places for anyone, there was no playground for years, etc.

I could not afford Sky, but my so called poor friends could.

look around, Ireland poor, why are they poor, where are they spending their money?

Low income families, what's so wrong with the min wage in ireland, it's not that low.

If people stick to what they can afford, save for what they want, instade of wanting what their neighbours have, they'll be fine.

How many so call poor families have flat screen TV's, cars, go on holidays, i mean why should a family on welfare be entitled to go on holidays aboard, you want holidays work for them.

Oh and by the way, i was made redundant and just had back surgery and it will be along time before i can go back to work, so i know what's like to be on welfare, but i worked for my welfare since i was 18 and paid to go to night school out of my pocket while raising my children.

Clown Shoes

We need to find ways to tax welfare, albeit in a most cunning way...

As a good proportion of the unemployed lounge around in their abode most of the day, I propose a VAT Rate of 50% on pyjamas.

50% VAT rate also to apply to curry sauce and battered sausages

A 50% cut in child benefit to be replaced by Scratch Cards.

Anybody got any other proposals?

tudlytops

oh and lets not forget, when i had children i had to buy the cot, pram, etc, but had i been on social welfare, well all i had to do was go down to the clinic and ask for money for one.

And things like, a girl i know, no names here, was living in a council 2 bed bungalow, then for some reason that was no suitable for her and her child so she was moved to a 2 bed house and because she moved she was given money for beds, curtains, cooker, fridge, etc, witch she already had, so she spent in to getting sky, internet, cloths, concerts, etc.

Great spending from the social welfare.

tudlytops

Clown Shoes wrote: »

We need to find ways to tax welfare, albeit in a most cunning way...

As a good proportion of the unemployed lounge around in their abode most of the day, I propose a VAT Rate of 50% on pyjamas.

50% VAT rate also to apply to curry sauce and battered sausages

A 50% cut in child benefit to be replaced by Scratch Cards.

Anybody got any other proposals?

lol

tudlytops

if i knew then what i know now, i wouldn't have gone to work, i just would have had children.;) loads of children and stayed at home.

small ones
Big ones
fat ones
Skinney ones

and of course a few with ADDH and ADD

bored_senseless

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm in receipt of it and would much prefer it went to a much better cause, I decided to have children, I'll support them, I don't expect anyone else to.

Then may I suggest not claiming it. I know a few people who also do not want or need it and they contacted someone to cancel it.
Or if that doesn't work donate it, there are plenty of needy charities out there.

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

Then may I suggest not claiming it. I know a few people who also do not want or need it and they contacted someone to cancel it.
Or if that doesn't work donate it, there are plenty of needy charities out there.

And if you don't claim it, where does it go, back to the government and not to those who supposedly needed it.

As for charities, do you know that some years back there was a study done and it turned out that in average only 20p out of every pound (yes it was still in pounds) donated actually reached the ones the charities were asking for.

Once a charity come to my door asking for money to buy blankets for the homeless, so i said " i do not give money, but i will have 2 blankets for you tomorrow if you want, i still have the blankets, they didn't want blankets, only the money to buy them.


My father now retired worked for a charity, he had a really nice wage, great sick pay and holidays, that's where the money was going.



But you can do things with it, my daughter, she's a student, buys a small meal every day for a homeless guy, and the other day she bought him, a hat, gloves and a scarf, small but it makes someone's live a little bit better.

bored_senseless

tudlytops wrote: »

thats in the perents hands to change, get together and refuse to buy new books. I don't think the schools are going to send all the children home.

I remember being in school and teacher saying open the new books on page .... and the old ones on pag ..., what was wrong with that?

People have to get together and do something about it and stop talking, act not moan

Exactly, people need to stand up to this and schools should be responsible too. Setting new books on the booklist every year makes them very expensive to buy and hard to trade in afterwards. When I was in school a certain teacher ordered new books every year for 4 years and some of them just new editions. My dad refused to buy new ones cos I had the old ones from a cousin and they were eventually forced to stop putting new books on the list after all the parents went mental.

Another school near us had a scheme where you paid 20 and rented your books for the year from them. Only had to pay full price for any book if it was not returned or was damaged etc. Do any schools do this now?

tudlytops

People have to learn to stick together and stand up for what they believe.

Some time back i remember receiving this email at work, asking people to not buy petrol on any Texaco or Sheild's garages, the idea was that these 2 big petrol producers would have to lower their prices, forcing the other's in turn to lower their prices.

It was a good idea, but people come back with stuff like " But i always go to the one next door to me", or " I'll forget", so the idea died and petrol continues to go up.

It's the same with everything else, if we don't get together, nothing will change.

max 73

Some middle class workers would even be paying for their own child benefit:)
It should be treated as a charity contibution because thats what it is.
Just to recap, its for the kids, not the parents.

yes, i agree fully its for the kids.....its not even 1/5th of childcare costs, gp visits & prescriptions when necessary, etc etc.....we would be considered middle class income workers but when mortgage, cars (loan, service, tax, fuel, insurance), utilities, health insurance, savings(not a huge sum)etc are paid out of each months wages there is not a whole pile left for luxuries, like a lot of folks on here if the child benefit was removed or lowered to a point where it really hurts - then it would force us to decide for one of us to cease working and seek full state benefits, thereby, adding to the states woos - something we dont fancy having to do but unfortunately, its a very very thin line!!!

gcgirl

If any body can bank their cb they clearly should not be getting it means testing it is the only way forward and it should be only for the kids !

cson

gcgirl wrote:

If any body can bank their cb they clearly should not be getting it means testing it is the only way forward and it should be only for the kids !

Won't someone please think of the children

To be fair I'd say a nicely sized proportion of child benefit winds its way back to the exchequer through excise and duties on Alcohol and Cigarettes and more of it through the Betting Tax.

tudlytops

The benefit system as a whole needs to be looked at.

From unemployment benefit to pensions.

The way money is spent on medical care, needs to be looked at, there is money savings to be done there.

The grants available to the so called poor have to be revised and only given when indeed they're needed.

There are to much discrimination between the poor renting from the council and the poor renting private, for instance if you get a council house you get money for furniture, carpets, bedding, etc, but if you rent a privet unfurnished place, you get nothing.

I know this for sure, because we had a house fire last Xmas on the 20/12, lost everything we had, moved into a flat (very nice landlord took us in and helped us) with nothing and all we got was €400 emergency money to buy ALL essentials for 3 people, we them moved into an unfurnished privately rented house and we were not entitled to any help., even though I am on disability recovering from a back surgery and my partner is on Invalidity pension.

gcgirl

if we had of thought of creating like in other european countrys state run playschools which would combined with what tax you pay bring down the cost of childcare ! If you wanna drink or smoke don't use your kids money to do so, if you can't afford to then don't i gave up smoking and i rarely drink the cb is spent on the kids playschool fee's and clothes and other stuff they need ! i don't believe it is there for someones social life and off topic the whole social welfare should be revised ! There is one thing in this country that completely sucks is the high cost of living it 's the highest in europe! You could fill your freezer in england for 15 pound france would not be too far behind where as ireland well living in this country makes being josef fritzil's daughter looks good !

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

The benefit system as a whole needs to be looked at.

From unemployment benefit to pensions.

The way money is spent on medical care, needs to be looked at, there is money savings to be done there.

The grants available to the so called poor have to be revised and only given when indeed they're needed.

There are to much discrimination between the poor renting from the council and the poor renting private, for instance if you get a council house you get money for furniture, carpets, bedding, etc, but if you rent a privet unfurnished place, you get nothing.

I know this for sure, because we had a house fire last Xmas on the 20/12, lost everything we had, moved into a flat (very nice landlord took us in and helped us) with nothing and all we got was €400 emergency money to buy ALL essentials for 3 people, we them moved into an unfurnished privately rented house and we were not entitled to any help., even though I am on disability recovering from a back surgery and my partner is on Invalidity pension.

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a longterm thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

bored_senseless

gcgirl wrote: »

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a longterm thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

Yes, I would not expect anyone to furnish my house if I rented it unfurnished. I understand that there was a fire and these people needed to move quickly but in general I think if you don't have all the furnishings then rent a house that does.

tudlytops

gcgirl wrote: »

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a long-term thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

Short term, there are people renting and waiting for council accommodation for years.

So what you saying is, if you rent from the council you get furniture etc, but if you are on the waiting list (still have to live somewhere) rent unfurnished, you seat, sleep and eat on the floor.

They aren't furnishing a privet house, they are furnishing accommodation for someone who needs it, when that someone moves, so does the furniture.

But in our case was different we lost it all, walked out with the cloths we were wearing and all we 3 people were given was €400, 3 days before xmas.

If we'd been in council accommodation we would have been able to claim for everything.

thecommander

If you cut child benefit to the top 10% of earners, how much would you save?

Do the top 10% of earners even claim it?

cson

thecommander wrote: »

If you cut child benefit to the top 10% of earners, how much would you save?

Do the top 10% of earners even claim it?

Yeah; except it's called the Fake Tan Allowance.

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

Yes, I would not expect anyone to furnish my house if I rented it unfurnished. I understand that there was a fire and these people needed to move quickly but in general I think if you don't have all the furnishings then rent a house that does.

I agree with that, but when there is an emergency one can't chose, we found a landlord willing to take us, just like that, being the 21/12 we didn't have much of a choice.

and even then, again you are not furnishing a privet house, you are giving people who need it in privet or council the same rights, they can take all their furniture with them when they move.

And have you seen some of this so called furnished houses, I rented a few over the years, trust me, those so called inspections aren't being done.

Go to a place like Jumbletown and you will see adverts of people giving away sofas or wardrobes with no doors and saying things like " suitable for rented accumulation"

The people that rent this type of accumulation can't afford any better, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve better.

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

Short term, there are people renting and waiting for council accommodation for years.

So what you saying is, if you rent from the council you get furniture etc, but if you are on the waiting list (still have to live somewhere) rent unfurnished, you seat, sleep and eat on the floor.

They aren't furnishing a privet house, they are furnishing accommodation for someone who needs it, when that someone moves, so does the furniture.

But in our case was different we lost it all, walked out with the cloths we were wearing and all we 3 people were given was €400, 3 days before xmas.

If we'd been in council accommodation we would have been able to claim for everything.

Any private dwelling i have rented have been furnished!
Any land lord i know have rented out their dwellings furnished!

tudlytops

Well the flat offered to us wasn't and there are plenty that aren't furnished.

We have a cottage but it's not habitable yet, so we renting unfurnished and my landlord as a few more properties unfurnished, he says he doesn't want to have to be responsible for furniture, appliances and their maintenance.

And you all well know that many landlords didn't accept rent allowance, leaving the people that needed rent allowance with no choice open to them.

SkepticOne

tudlytops wrote: »

Go to a place like Jumbletown and you will see adverts of people giving away sofas or wardrobes with no doors and saying things like " suitable for rented accumulation"

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

cson

SkepticOne wrote: »

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

Lol at The Albatross

tudlytops

SkepticOne wrote: »

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

Are you kidding me, try pretending you want to rent and that you have a low income, so go for cheaper properties, them come tell me about the furnishings.

I was chocked with some of the places I saw, luckily we had a choice.

Imallin9989

Once again attack the middle class people, how can anyone contimplate cutting the child benifit, People have morgages, college fees etc... Im a 20 year old lad and the fact I think that the goverment are going after the public sector,middle class is sick.


My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

Teacers, nurses etc.. should never be rich but they should never have to strive to make ends meat. I know cuts are nesseceary but come on its not fair

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Once again attack the middle class people, how can anyone contimplate cutting the child benifit, People have morgages, college fees etc... Im a 20 year old lad and the fact I think that the goverment are going after the public sector,middle class is sick.


My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

Teacers, nurses etc.. should never be rich but they should never have to strive to make ends meat. I know cuts are nesseceary but come on its not fair

no one's "going after" anyone.

the hands outs at the moment are too high.

we don't have enough tax intake to pay them all so they need to be adjusted.

no teacher or any other middle income earner would be struggling if they made well informed financial desicions with their wages.

ones that did will be fine, but will still whine.

ones who didn't will have it tough. but that's their own making.

Imallin9989

ntlbell wrote: »

no one's "going after" anyone.

the hands outs at the moment are too high.

we don't have enough tax intake to pay them all so they need to be adjusted.

no teacher or any other middle income earner would be struggling if they made well informed financial desicions with their wages.

ones that did will be fine, but will still whine.

ones who didn't will have it tough. but that's their own making.

But you don't see the point, the amount the government are cutting off the public wage is a lot more what they are taking off the private sector.

People have morgages, college fees, ect... My mother will loose about 400 euro every month. Justify that, when you think it has only happened in the last month.

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

But you don't see the point, the amount the government are cutting off the public wage is a lot more what they are taking off the private sector.

People have morgages, college fees, ect... My mother will loose about 400 euro every month. Justify that, when you think it has only happened in the last month.

because the goverment doesn't pay the private sector's wages?

people in the private sector don't have million euro pensions and rock solid job secuity.

private sector workers are losing their jobs all over the place.

the simple fact is we can't afford it anymore you can't get blood from a stone we don't have to give.

almostnever

Imallin9989 wrote: »

My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

Anyway,if you want to look at it like that....I think that the builders who grew accustomed to such inflated wages are probably suffering a lot more,especially when you consider that many of them can't find jobs at the moment.

Imallin9989

almostnever wrote: »

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

Anyway,if you want to look at it like that....I think that the builders who grew accustomed to such inflated wages are probably suffering a lot more,especially when you consider that many of them can't find jobs at the moment.

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

it also means you shouldn't pull down 10X your wage for a mortgage.

or buy an X5 on the drip.

as i keep saying, if middle income people are in trouble it's of their own design

almostnever

Imallin9989 wrote: »

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

I'm finding it difficult to understand the concept you're explaining...
I don't think there's a point to any class. That suggests that the "point" of lower/working class/whatever families is to struggle to make ends meet. Nobody should have to do this,but should is really the operative word here.

It's a very unfortunate situation we're in,but we're in it,and we aren't going to get out of it unless people start sucking it up. Sorry,but it's true.

The public sector wages are payed by the taxes that the private sector workers pay on their wages. It follows that if a lot of these people lose their jobs/take huge pay cuts etc, there won't be as much money to pay public sector workers. It's not a matter of being out to get anyone or punishing the public sector or targeting people in a recession,it's basic economics. Everybody is finding it hard and feeling the pinch to a certain extent,it's the nature of a recession. Needs must.

Imallin9989

ntlbell wrote: »

because the goverment doesn't pay the private sector's wages?

people in the private sector don't have million euro pensions and rock solid job secuity.

private sector workers are losing their jobs all over the place.

the simple fact is we can't afford it anymore you can't get blood from a stone we don't have to give.

Million euro pensions, don't know what country you are living in mate:D, they are taxing those aswell by the by.

BrownianMotion

Your mother will lose 400 a month? At a 6% cut that equates to her having a wage of over 6500k a month.

I'm guessing you meant between the pension levy and this impending cut she will have lost 400 a month but even assuming an overall cut of 13% that means she's still grossing over 3k a month.

If she's going to struggle on that she's doing something wrong. People like this claiming such a cut will cause their family hardship are either living in a dream world or have made some terrible financial decisions in the past few years.

Imallin9989

BrownianMotion wrote: »

Your mother will lose 400 a month? At a 6% cut that equates to her having a wage of over 6500k a month.

I'm guessing you meant between the pension levy and this impending cut she will have lost 400 a month but even assuming an overall cut of 13% that means she's still grossing over 3k a month.

If she's going to struggle on that she's doing something wrong. People like this claiming such a cut will cause their family hardship are either living in a dream world or have made some terrible financial decisions in the past few years.

Its more than six per cent, obvioulsy im taking everything into account including the Levy.

Dr Galen

almostnever wrote: »

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

+1

this isn't about blame. There will be plenty of that to go round, right now it's about stabilising the finances of the government. I don't want anyone to lose their job, or be forced into taking a paycut, but right now we really have no choice.

It's not about how the private sector creamed it or how the Public Sector have it handy. To bring it to that level, is nothing more than jealousy, petulance and as almostnever says childishness.

We have a huge issue with what we're spending as a country, regardless of who or why this was caused. It's need to be fixed, pronto. The only way to do this imho is through having a well thought out plan of action, one that has clear goals and reasoning, not the half arsed bull we've so far had from government.

Child benefit has to part of that. It's a massive SW cost, and is frankly not needed by large portions of society. I'm not in favour of means testing, not now anyway. It generally costs more to means test that you save short term, so its a non runner. When we get back on track, lets look at it. Right now, all we can do is have an across the board cut, with some protections in place for those that really need the payment

K-9

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Million euro pensions, don't know what country you are living in mate:D, they are taxing those aswell by the by.

With the tax exemption limits for over 65's, it would need to be a damn good pension to be taxed.

Pete4779

Child benefit should be stopped entirely, forever. The money should be put towards proper schools, properly staffed childcare facilities and no individual should ever get actual cash in place of this.

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

gcgirl

Pete4779 wrote: »

Child benefit should be stopped entirely, forever. The money should be put towards proper schools, properly staffed childcare facilities and no individual should ever get actual cash in place of this.

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

Something i have been saying for yrs but alas the Early child care was a massive waste of money but for some one working full time your talking 800 and some cases 1200 per month on chilcare charges!

Dr Galen

Pete4779 wrote: »

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

by this do you mean that where you have an area say like Blackrock in Dublin, they should get more money spent on resources than say Ballymun? Because the tax take from those living in the area is greater?

tudlytops

Just on the "poor" teachers, etc.

Even the lowest salary is a nice salary.

http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html#Common

Before tax and that's before over time, bonus, etc., for the lowest wage, what's so wrong with those wages.


http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

Private sector doesn't get this wages, have to pay for their own pensions, don't get to claim full wages while sick for in some cases years, don't have job security.

Plus when people get 5% raise or so they make jokes like, "oh how should i invest this huge raise" but when they lose the same amount, its "how am i going to pay my mortgage", so is % good or bad?