Stop child benefit to middle/high income parents?

oh well

I could go without child benefit if free education was free and the medical services we pay our taxes and levies for actually worked. Why cannot everyone get their school books and uniforms provided by the school and paid for centrally by Dept Ed is beyond me. We have to pay voluntary contributions for basics - lighting & heating, insurances, soap and towels, rubbish collection, etc on top of the books and uniforms, etc.

The back to school allowance wouldn't be needed in any format then - plus its ridiculous that back to school is paid for kids aged from 2yr upwards.

If education and medical were actually free, then I'd let my CB go but until then - sorry, its needed.

Amazing isn't it how Dept of Finance keeps underestimating VAT/Revenue amounts - when they got more than they expected in numerous years and now when they keep getting less than they expect. Seriously, is there anyone up there in the Dail who really knows anything about finances.

K-9

oh well wrote: »

I could go without child benefit if free education was free and the medical services we pay our taxes and levies for actually worked. Why cannot everyone get their school books and uniforms provided by the school and paid for centrally by Dept Ed is beyond me. We have to pay voluntary contributions for basics - lighting & heating, insurances, soap and towels, rubbish collection, etc on top of the books and uniforms, etc.

The back to school allowance wouldn't be needed in any format then - plus its ridiculous that back to school is paid for kids aged from 2yr upwards.

If education and medical were actually free, then I'd let my CB go but until then - sorry, its needed.

Amazing isn't it how Dept of Finance keeps underestimating VAT/Revenue amounts - when they got more than they expected in numerous years and now when they keep getting less than they expect. Seriously, is there anyone up there in the Dail who really knows anything about finances.

About 77% of the education budget goes on pay so there isn't much left for everything else.

Traumadoc

There are hundreds of women receiving child benefit who earn over 200k a year. That is wrong.
Child benefit was set up in an era when women had difficulty earning while married.

dvpower

Iolar wrote: »

I firmly believe all benefit should be means tested

CHB should be scrapped.
Merge it in with the standard social welfare payments (including Family Income Supplement). Save a fortune on administration.

doc_17

CB should be axed and replaced with vouchers instead. Vouchers for childrens clothes, nappies, food, school books etc. Then the government could negotiate with some of these much talked anbout efficient private sector companies to save further by adding incentives to lower costs ie the gov might hand out 2.5 bil in vouchers but only pay 2bil. All this nonsense about administrative difficulties with taxing it could then be bypassed.

invincibleirish

Child benefit in Ireland exposes the sham of our welfare state. Instead of it been given to those who most need it, it is given to anyone who has a child irregardless of income. It disgusts me to see liberal middle Ireland using the cloak of universality to defend this undeserved subsidy.

Todays broadsheets mention the likelihood that there will be a 10% cut in CB, this is good politics but highlights the selfishness of the politicians and those who will defend the payment of CB to everyone without taking their income into account. A 10% cut means a lot more hardship to families on SW then middle Ireland.

97i9y3941

benefit is going to be cut anyway,i dont have kids so i dont know how much this will affect people with them,anyways heres the story

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-to-take-836457000-pay-cut-1965694.html

Independent.ie
Taoiseach to take €57,000 pay cut

Social welfare cut 4.1%, child benefit 10%, set against a backdrop of falling prices

By DANIEL McCONNELL Chief Reporter
Sunday December 06 2009

Drastic cuts of up to 20 per cent in top ministerial and civil servants' pay will form a central platform of Finance Minister Brian Lenihan's Budget speech on Wednesday, as he also prepares to cut child benefit, social welfare and public sector pay, the Sunday Independent can reveal.

In the wake of the pay talks collapse on Friday, Mr Lenihan is to plough ahead with an aggressive programme of pay cuts and expenditure reductions in the most eagerly anticipated Budget in history.

Taoiseach Brian Cowen is to have his salary slashed by over €57,000, while all lower-level workers in the public sector will be hit with cuts of up to 6 per cent.

The Government is set to inflict some pain on all sectors of society, but it has decided to lead from the front with significant pay cuts for cabinet members, top civil servants, university heads and semi-state body CEOs.

Mr Cowen will see his salary reduced by €57,117, or 20 per cent, to €228,466, bringing him back into line with average salaries paid to other European leaders.

Ministerial salaries will be reduced by €33,779 or 15 per cent to €191,417.

However, the impact of the cuts for cabinet members is cushioned by the fact that part of the reduction of their salaries -- a 10 per cent cut -- was introduced in the October 2008 budget, and the impact of the pay cuts on their pensions has not yet been finalised, according to senior government sources.

As a result of the pay talks collapse on Friday, there will now definitely be pay cuts of up to 6 per cent for all public sector workers other than the senior grades covered by the Review Body. The Government has restated its aim to protect the most vulnerable from the worst of the cuts, but said everyone must shoulder some pain.

It has been confirmed to this newspaper that child benefit payments are to be cut by 10 per cent -- €16 a month for those with one child.

Given the huge spend of €21bn on social welfare, the unemployed are also to see their benefits cut from Wednesday. There is to be an €8.50 per week or 4.1 per cent cut in social welfare payments, it has emerged.

Sources close to the government pointed out yesterday that this will happen against the backdrop of falling prices, and that social welfare spending increased by 3.5 per cent in 2009.

The overall burden of taxation is to remain unchanged, but there are to be certain changes within bands, while the only new tax to be introduced is the carbon tax, at the insistence of the Green Party.

Speaking to the Sunday Independent yesterday, Mr Lenihan said: "The €4bn in savings will be achieved in a credible, realistic and fair way. That's it. The €1.3bn expenditure reductions will be also done fairly."

Sources close to the minister said yesterday that he was greatly heartened by the backbench revolt, saying the deal "blew up in the faces of the union leaders".

Mr Lenihan was impressed by many of the comments made to him at the parliamentary meeting on Thursday. One of the strongest contributions came from Tipperary South TD Mattie McGrath, who said he was "tired of the bearded heads of the unions calling the shots all the time.

"They came out of government buildings looking like Santa Claus".

While Mr Lenihan received the report from the Review Body on Higher Remuneration several weeks ago, he has kept it under lock and key as it will form a central part of his speech. He has vowed to implement the report in full, and it is expected to achieve €300m in savings, which have already been factored into final budget calculations.

The review body found that in comparison with other European countries, the higher up the salary scale in the Irish system, the greater the inequality with similar positions elsewhere.

Top level secretaries general like Dermot McCarthy and David Doyle will see their pay cut by €42,801 to €242,540, while lower grade SGs will have their pay reduced by €38,045 to €215,590.

UCD President Dr Hugh Brady and TCD Provost John Hegarty will see their pay reduced by €35,668 to €202,117, while county managers will take a hit of €12,005, making their new salary €138,064. The Government was right to reject the 12 days' unpaid leave deal proposal, according to the vast majority of the public, a Sunday Independent/ Quantum Research nationwide poll conducted yesterday has revealed.

Three out of four voters feel Mr Cowen has performed less than capably over the past week. Sixty-one per cent thought that Mr Cowen was right to walk away from talks, saying the proposal was merely a fudge by the unions on the issue of public sector pay and pensions.

- DANIEL McCONNELL Chief Reporter


©Independent.ie

ninty9er

stainluss wrote: »

S
The parents may not deserve it, but the kids deserve a certain standard of living.

What makes you think Child Benefit facilitates this?

mikemac

oh well wrote: »

We have to pay voluntary contributions for basics - lighting & heating, insurances, soap and towels, rubbish collection, etc on top of the books and uniforms, etc.

What happens if you don't pay the voluntary contributions, they are voluntary after all.

Idbatterim

Should their not be a cap on the amount of child benefit one can claim? i.e say up to 3 kids. Realistically no segment of society here that you actually want having kids is having more than 3! You want to promote the middle and upper classes having kids! not the ones who will leech off they system their entire lives... The point about nobody should have kids if the child benefit is that crucial to them is true...

oh well

some schools will leave you off if don't pay voluntary contribs but other schools will hound you time and again and embarrass your childen. They send out reminders that you haven't paid your voluntary contrib, they ask your children "to tell your parents we are still waiting your contrib".


The point about nobody should have kids if the child benefit is that crucial to them is true... ..... all well and good but no one knows when they might become unemployed or maybe injured so that they can't work anymore, etc and may have to rely on welfare.

mikemac

oh well wrote: »

some schools will leave you off if don't pay voluntary contribs but other schools will hound you time and again and embarrass your childen. They send out reminders that you haven't paid your voluntary contrib, they ask your children "to tell your parents we are still waiting your contrib".

The Dept of Education has a budget of nine billion or so. And they hassle parents for more??

Oh I'm no fan of Joe Duffy but there is a call and a discussion waiting to be made.

Makes me mad just reading your post :mad:
Of course the school secretary can write letters to the parents but the children should never be involved or dragged into this!

old boy

ninty9er wrote: »

What makes you think Child Benefit facilitates this?

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, the poor are entitled to some pleasure.

ninty9er

old boy wrote: »

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, the poor are entitled to some pleasure.

That's your children, what I'm saying is just because people are getting this money doesn't mean that they spend it on their kids.

old boy

ninty9er wrote: »

That's your children, what I'm saying is just because people are getting this money doesn't mean that they spend it on their kids.

so please enlighten the populance

Lemondrop kid

Facinating, the tone on this thread compared to the thread on social welfare cuts;)

ninty9er

old boy wrote: »

so please enlighten the populance

It doesn't take a genius to work out that there are thousands of neglected kids in this country whose parents can still afford to smoke and have a few pints down the local.

This is what child benefit is paying for in a lot of cases, I'm not going to say a majority or anywhere near, but a significant number in any case.

Clown Shoes

Why do you think our govt keeps handing out social welfare and child benefit money to dead beats who just sit around in pubs drinking and smoking all day?

Probably because they take most of it back in excise and VAT. I tink the tax is at more than 6e on a packet of cigs!

tudlytops

old boy wrote: »

well people on lower income use this as a means of providing clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework, (my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online) that normally would not be provided, mabe a family night out to the cinema one a month or say every two months, .

"clothing, shoes, heating even internet connection for kids homework" - I don't know how much you getting but mine when i was getting it would never pay for all of these.


"my grandaughter aged 11 calls 3 night a week to our place to do home work, as most of it has to be researched online)"

What's wrong with the library, they have internet and its free, what happen to books, etc.

"the poor are entitled to some pleasure",

I hear a lot about the so called poor, i have friends in places like Moyross, so called desavanteged areas, get real, they have creches for €20 a week, they have play grounds, free courses, they pay the kids to go to school cause they won't go otherwise, etc, etc.

i was living and working in Shannon town, there were no child care places for anyone, there was no playground for years, etc.

I could not afford Sky, but my so called poor friends could.

look around, Ireland poor, why are they poor, where are they spending their money?

Low income families, what's so wrong with the min wage in ireland, it's not that low.

If people stick to what they can afford, save for what they want, instade of wanting what their neighbours have, they'll be fine.

How many so call poor families have flat screen TV's, cars, go on holidays, i mean why should a family on welfare be entitled to go on holidays aboard, you want holidays work for them.

Oh and by the way, i was made redundant and just had back surgery and it will be along time before i can go back to work, so i know what's like to be on welfare, but i worked for my welfare since i was 18 and paid to go to night school out of my pocket while raising my children.

Clown Shoes

We need to find ways to tax welfare, albeit in a most cunning way...

As a good proportion of the unemployed lounge around in their abode most of the day, I propose a VAT Rate of 50% on pyjamas.

50% VAT rate also to apply to curry sauce and battered sausages

A 50% cut in child benefit to be replaced by Scratch Cards.

Anybody got any other proposals?

tudlytops

oh and lets not forget, when i had children i had to buy the cot, pram, etc, but had i been on social welfare, well all i had to do was go down to the clinic and ask for money for one.

And things like, a girl i know, no names here, was living in a council 2 bed bungalow, then for some reason that was no suitable for her and her child so she was moved to a 2 bed house and because she moved she was given money for beds, curtains, cooker, fridge, etc, witch she already had, so she spent in to getting sky, internet, cloths, concerts, etc.

Great spending from the social welfare.

tudlytops

Clown Shoes wrote: »

We need to find ways to tax welfare, albeit in a most cunning way...

As a good proportion of the unemployed lounge around in their abode most of the day, I propose a VAT Rate of 50% on pyjamas.

50% VAT rate also to apply to curry sauce and battered sausages

A 50% cut in child benefit to be replaced by Scratch Cards.

Anybody got any other proposals?

lol

tudlytops

if i knew then what i know now, i wouldn't have gone to work, i just would have had children.;) loads of children and stayed at home.

small ones
Big ones
fat ones
Skinney ones

and of course a few with ADDH and ADD

bored_senseless

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm in receipt of it and would much prefer it went to a much better cause, I decided to have children, I'll support them, I don't expect anyone else to.

Then may I suggest not claiming it. I know a few people who also do not want or need it and they contacted someone to cancel it.
Or if that doesn't work donate it, there are plenty of needy charities out there.

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

Then may I suggest not claiming it. I know a few people who also do not want or need it and they contacted someone to cancel it.
Or if that doesn't work donate it, there are plenty of needy charities out there.

And if you don't claim it, where does it go, back to the government and not to those who supposedly needed it.

As for charities, do you know that some years back there was a study done and it turned out that in average only 20p out of every pound (yes it was still in pounds) donated actually reached the ones the charities were asking for.

Once a charity come to my door asking for money to buy blankets for the homeless, so i said " i do not give money, but i will have 2 blankets for you tomorrow if you want, i still have the blankets, they didn't want blankets, only the money to buy them.


My father now retired worked for a charity, he had a really nice wage, great sick pay and holidays, that's where the money was going.



But you can do things with it, my daughter, she's a student, buys a small meal every day for a homeless guy, and the other day she bought him, a hat, gloves and a scarf, small but it makes someone's live a little bit better.

bored_senseless

tudlytops wrote: »

thats in the perents hands to change, get together and refuse to buy new books. I don't think the schools are going to send all the children home.

I remember being in school and teacher saying open the new books on page .... and the old ones on pag ..., what was wrong with that?

People have to get together and do something about it and stop talking, act not moan

Exactly, people need to stand up to this and schools should be responsible too. Setting new books on the booklist every year makes them very expensive to buy and hard to trade in afterwards. When I was in school a certain teacher ordered new books every year for 4 years and some of them just new editions. My dad refused to buy new ones cos I had the old ones from a cousin and they were eventually forced to stop putting new books on the list after all the parents went mental.

Another school near us had a scheme where you paid 20 and rented your books for the year from them. Only had to pay full price for any book if it was not returned or was damaged etc. Do any schools do this now?

tudlytops

People have to learn to stick together and stand up for what they believe.

Some time back i remember receiving this email at work, asking people to not buy petrol on any Texaco or Sheild's garages, the idea was that these 2 big petrol producers would have to lower their prices, forcing the other's in turn to lower their prices.

It was a good idea, but people come back with stuff like " But i always go to the one next door to me", or " I'll forget", so the idea died and petrol continues to go up.

It's the same with everything else, if we don't get together, nothing will change.

max 73

Some middle class workers would even be paying for their own child benefit:)
It should be treated as a charity contibution because thats what it is.
Just to recap, its for the kids, not the parents.

yes, i agree fully its for the kids.....its not even 1/5th of childcare costs, gp visits & prescriptions when necessary, etc etc.....we would be considered middle class income workers but when mortgage, cars (loan, service, tax, fuel, insurance), utilities, health insurance, savings(not a huge sum)etc are paid out of each months wages there is not a whole pile left for luxuries, like a lot of folks on here if the child benefit was removed or lowered to a point where it really hurts - then it would force us to decide for one of us to cease working and seek full state benefits, thereby, adding to the states woos - something we dont fancy having to do but unfortunately, its a very very thin line!!!

gcgirl

If any body can bank their cb they clearly should not be getting it means testing it is the only way forward and it should be only for the kids !

cson

gcgirl wrote:

If any body can bank their cb they clearly should not be getting it means testing it is the only way forward and it should be only for the kids !

Won't someone please think of the children

To be fair I'd say a nicely sized proportion of child benefit winds its way back to the exchequer through excise and duties on Alcohol and Cigarettes and more of it through the Betting Tax.