Stop child benefit to middle/high income parents?

tudlytops

The benefit system as a whole needs to be looked at.

From unemployment benefit to pensions.

The way money is spent on medical care, needs to be looked at, there is money savings to be done there.

The grants available to the so called poor have to be revised and only given when indeed they're needed.

There are to much discrimination between the poor renting from the council and the poor renting private, for instance if you get a council house you get money for furniture, carpets, bedding, etc, but if you rent a privet unfurnished place, you get nothing.

I know this for sure, because we had a house fire last Xmas on the 20/12, lost everything we had, moved into a flat (very nice landlord took us in and helped us) with nothing and all we got was €400 emergency money to buy ALL essentials for 3 people, we them moved into an unfurnished privately rented house and we were not entitled to any help., even though I am on disability recovering from a back surgery and my partner is on Invalidity pension.

gcgirl

if we had of thought of creating like in other european countrys state run playschools which would combined with what tax you pay bring down the cost of childcare ! If you wanna drink or smoke don't use your kids money to do so, if you can't afford to then don't i gave up smoking and i rarely drink the cb is spent on the kids playschool fee's and clothes and other stuff they need ! i don't believe it is there for someones social life and off topic the whole social welfare should be revised ! There is one thing in this country that completely sucks is the high cost of living it 's the highest in europe! You could fill your freezer in england for 15 pound france would not be too far behind where as ireland well living in this country makes being josef fritzil's daughter looks good !

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

The benefit system as a whole needs to be looked at.

From unemployment benefit to pensions.

The way money is spent on medical care, needs to be looked at, there is money savings to be done there.

The grants available to the so called poor have to be revised and only given when indeed they're needed.

There are to much discrimination between the poor renting from the council and the poor renting private, for instance if you get a council house you get money for furniture, carpets, bedding, etc, but if you rent a privet unfurnished place, you get nothing.

I know this for sure, because we had a house fire last Xmas on the 20/12, lost everything we had, moved into a flat (very nice landlord took us in and helped us) with nothing and all we got was €400 emergency money to buy ALL essentials for 3 people, we them moved into an unfurnished privately rented house and we were not entitled to any help., even though I am on disability recovering from a back surgery and my partner is on Invalidity pension.

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a longterm thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

bored_senseless

gcgirl wrote: »

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a longterm thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

Yes, I would not expect anyone to furnish my house if I rented it unfurnished. I understand that there was a fire and these people needed to move quickly but in general I think if you don't have all the furnishings then rent a house that does.

tudlytops

gcgirl wrote: »

↲There is a difference between renting off the council which for the many is a long-term thing where private renting is short term and most private homes are furnished ! I don't think it's up to the sw to furnish a private dwelling !

Short term, there are people renting and waiting for council accommodation for years.

So what you saying is, if you rent from the council you get furniture etc, but if you are on the waiting list (still have to live somewhere) rent unfurnished, you seat, sleep and eat on the floor.

They aren't furnishing a privet house, they are furnishing accommodation for someone who needs it, when that someone moves, so does the furniture.

But in our case was different we lost it all, walked out with the cloths we were wearing and all we 3 people were given was €400, 3 days before xmas.

If we'd been in council accommodation we would have been able to claim for everything.

thecommander

If you cut child benefit to the top 10% of earners, how much would you save?

Do the top 10% of earners even claim it?

cson

thecommander wrote: »

If you cut child benefit to the top 10% of earners, how much would you save?

Do the top 10% of earners even claim it?

Yeah; except it's called the Fake Tan Allowance.

tudlytops

bored_senseless wrote: »

Yes, I would not expect anyone to furnish my house if I rented it unfurnished. I understand that there was a fire and these people needed to move quickly but in general I think if you don't have all the furnishings then rent a house that does.

I agree with that, but when there is an emergency one can't chose, we found a landlord willing to take us, just like that, being the 21/12 we didn't have much of a choice.

and even then, again you are not furnishing a privet house, you are giving people who need it in privet or council the same rights, they can take all their furniture with them when they move.

And have you seen some of this so called furnished houses, I rented a few over the years, trust me, those so called inspections aren't being done.

Go to a place like Jumbletown and you will see adverts of people giving away sofas or wardrobes with no doors and saying things like " suitable for rented accumulation"

The people that rent this type of accumulation can't afford any better, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve better.

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

Short term, there are people renting and waiting for council accommodation for years.

So what you saying is, if you rent from the council you get furniture etc, but if you are on the waiting list (still have to live somewhere) rent unfurnished, you seat, sleep and eat on the floor.

They aren't furnishing a privet house, they are furnishing accommodation for someone who needs it, when that someone moves, so does the furniture.

But in our case was different we lost it all, walked out with the cloths we were wearing and all we 3 people were given was €400, 3 days before xmas.

If we'd been in council accommodation we would have been able to claim for everything.

Any private dwelling i have rented have been furnished!
Any land lord i know have rented out their dwellings furnished!

tudlytops

Well the flat offered to us wasn't and there are plenty that aren't furnished.

We have a cottage but it's not habitable yet, so we renting unfurnished and my landlord as a few more properties unfurnished, he says he doesn't want to have to be responsible for furniture, appliances and their maintenance.

And you all well know that many landlords didn't accept rent allowance, leaving the people that needed rent allowance with no choice open to them.

SkepticOne

tudlytops wrote: »

Go to a place like Jumbletown and you will see adverts of people giving away sofas or wardrobes with no doors and saying things like " suitable for rented accumulation"

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

cson

SkepticOne wrote: »

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

Lol at The Albatross

tudlytops

SkepticOne wrote: »

A lot of Irish landlords shop here for good value furniture.

Are you kidding me, try pretending you want to rent and that you have a low income, so go for cheaper properties, them come tell me about the furnishings.

I was chocked with some of the places I saw, luckily we had a choice.

Imallin9989

Once again attack the middle class people, how can anyone contimplate cutting the child benifit, People have morgages, college fees etc... Im a 20 year old lad and the fact I think that the goverment are going after the public sector,middle class is sick.


My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

Teacers, nurses etc.. should never be rich but they should never have to strive to make ends meat. I know cuts are nesseceary but come on its not fair

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Once again attack the middle class people, how can anyone contimplate cutting the child benifit, People have morgages, college fees etc... Im a 20 year old lad and the fact I think that the goverment are going after the public sector,middle class is sick.


My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

Teacers, nurses etc.. should never be rich but they should never have to strive to make ends meat. I know cuts are nesseceary but come on its not fair

no one's "going after" anyone.

the hands outs at the moment are too high.

we don't have enough tax intake to pay them all so they need to be adjusted.

no teacher or any other middle income earner would be struggling if they made well informed financial desicions with their wages.

ones that did will be fine, but will still whine.

ones who didn't will have it tough. but that's their own making.

Imallin9989

ntlbell wrote: »

no one's "going after" anyone.

the hands outs at the moment are too high.

we don't have enough tax intake to pay them all so they need to be adjusted.

no teacher or any other middle income earner would be struggling if they made well informed financial desicions with their wages.

ones that did will be fine, but will still whine.

ones who didn't will have it tough. but that's their own making.

But you don't see the point, the amount the government are cutting off the public wage is a lot more what they are taking off the private sector.

People have morgages, college fees, ect... My mother will loose about 400 euro every month. Justify that, when you think it has only happened in the last month.

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

But you don't see the point, the amount the government are cutting off the public wage is a lot more what they are taking off the private sector.

People have morgages, college fees, ect... My mother will loose about 400 euro every month. Justify that, when you think it has only happened in the last month.

because the goverment doesn't pay the private sector's wages?

people in the private sector don't have million euro pensions and rock solid job secuity.

private sector workers are losing their jobs all over the place.

the simple fact is we can't afford it anymore you can't get blood from a stone we don't have to give.

almostnever

Imallin9989 wrote: »

My mother or father wasn't earning 1500 euro laying brick every week for the last 10 years why are they held responsible and the ones who have to suffer.

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

Anyway,if you want to look at it like that....I think that the builders who grew accustomed to such inflated wages are probably suffering a lot more,especially when you consider that many of them can't find jobs at the moment.

Imallin9989

almostnever wrote: »

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

Anyway,if you want to look at it like that....I think that the builders who grew accustomed to such inflated wages are probably suffering a lot more,especially when you consider that many of them can't find jobs at the moment.

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

ntlbell

Imallin9989 wrote: »

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

it also means you shouldn't pull down 10X your wage for a mortgage.

or buy an X5 on the drip.

as i keep saying, if middle income people are in trouble it's of their own design

almostnever

Imallin9989 wrote: »

I know I feel sorry for buildres who can't find jobs! But I probably will find it extremly hard to find a job as a primary teacher when I qualify.

The whole point of middle class is that you shouldnt be rich yet you shouldnt be struggling to make ends meat and with these cuts young teachers with families will find it hard!!

I'm finding it difficult to understand the concept you're explaining...
I don't think there's a point to any class. That suggests that the "point" of lower/working class/whatever families is to struggle to make ends meet. Nobody should have to do this,but should is really the operative word here.

It's a very unfortunate situation we're in,but we're in it,and we aren't going to get out of it unless people start sucking it up. Sorry,but it's true.

The public sector wages are payed by the taxes that the private sector workers pay on their wages. It follows that if a lot of these people lose their jobs/take huge pay cuts etc, there won't be as much money to pay public sector workers. It's not a matter of being out to get anyone or punishing the public sector or targeting people in a recession,it's basic economics. Everybody is finding it hard and feeling the pinch to a certain extent,it's the nature of a recession. Needs must.

Imallin9989

ntlbell wrote: »

because the goverment doesn't pay the private sector's wages?

people in the private sector don't have million euro pensions and rock solid job secuity.

private sector workers are losing their jobs all over the place.

the simple fact is we can't afford it anymore you can't get blood from a stone we don't have to give.

Million euro pensions, don't know what country you are living in mate:D, they are taxing those aswell by the by.

BrownianMotion

Your mother will lose 400 a month? At a 6% cut that equates to her having a wage of over 6500k a month.

I'm guessing you meant between the pension levy and this impending cut she will have lost 400 a month but even assuming an overall cut of 13% that means she's still grossing over 3k a month.

If she's going to struggle on that she's doing something wrong. People like this claiming such a cut will cause their family hardship are either living in a dream world or have made some terrible financial decisions in the past few years.

Imallin9989

BrownianMotion wrote: »

Your mother will lose 400 a month? At a 6% cut that equates to her having a wage of over 6500k a month.

I'm guessing you meant between the pension levy and this impending cut she will have lost 400 a month but even assuming an overall cut of 13% that means she's still grossing over 3k a month.

If she's going to struggle on that she's doing something wrong. People like this claiming such a cut will cause their family hardship are either living in a dream world or have made some terrible financial decisions in the past few years.

Its more than six per cent, obvioulsy im taking everything into account including the Levy.

Dr Galen

almostnever wrote: »

It doesn't come down to who is in the wrong or at fault. It's a sad fact of life that we have to deal with the consequences of things that we didn't cause or were ever directly involved in,it's childish to assume otherwise.

+1

this isn't about blame. There will be plenty of that to go round, right now it's about stabilising the finances of the government. I don't want anyone to lose their job, or be forced into taking a paycut, but right now we really have no choice.

It's not about how the private sector creamed it or how the Public Sector have it handy. To bring it to that level, is nothing more than jealousy, petulance and as almostnever says childishness.

We have a huge issue with what we're spending as a country, regardless of who or why this was caused. It's need to be fixed, pronto. The only way to do this imho is through having a well thought out plan of action, one that has clear goals and reasoning, not the half arsed bull we've so far had from government.

Child benefit has to part of that. It's a massive SW cost, and is frankly not needed by large portions of society. I'm not in favour of means testing, not now anyway. It generally costs more to means test that you save short term, so its a non runner. When we get back on track, lets look at it. Right now, all we can do is have an across the board cut, with some protections in place for those that really need the payment

K-9

Imallin9989 wrote: »

Million euro pensions, don't know what country you are living in mate:D, they are taxing those aswell by the by.

With the tax exemption limits for over 65's, it would need to be a damn good pension to be taxed.

Pete4779

Child benefit should be stopped entirely, forever. The money should be put towards proper schools, properly staffed childcare facilities and no individual should ever get actual cash in place of this.

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

gcgirl

Pete4779 wrote: »

Child benefit should be stopped entirely, forever. The money should be put towards proper schools, properly staffed childcare facilities and no individual should ever get actual cash in place of this.

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

Something i have been saying for yrs but alas the Early child care was a massive waste of money but for some one working full time your talking 800 and some cases 1200 per month on chilcare charges!

Dr Galen

Pete4779 wrote: »

More of the money should be spent in areas where people pay more taxes.

by this do you mean that where you have an area say like Blackrock in Dublin, they should get more money spent on resources than say Ballymun? Because the tax take from those living in the area is greater?

tudlytops

Just on the "poor" teachers, etc.

Even the lowest salary is a nice salary.

http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html#Common

Before tax and that's before over time, bonus, etc., for the lowest wage, what's so wrong with those wages.


http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

Private sector doesn't get this wages, have to pay for their own pensions, don't get to claim full wages while sick for in some cases years, don't have job security.

Plus when people get 5% raise or so they make jokes like, "oh how should i invest this huge raise" but when they lose the same amount, its "how am i going to pay my mortgage", so is % good or bad?