Privatize FAS

seclachi

T-Square wrote: »

That is a rhetorical question, right?

Of course, people should pay for their education.

But I'm sure a lot of your don't realize that apprentices
already pay for the education indirectly.

Apprentice mechanics for example, are ~payed~ 200/300 quid a week
but they are actually quite productive and earn their employer
a lot of money.

If working for 300 quid a week, when they should be getting
five times that amount, isn't paying for your education, I don't know what is!

Thats a first year apprentice though right ? Nobody in this world walks into the working world and gets paid the same as somebody with 4 years worth of experience. A first year apprentice is green and has to be thought, and will slow down things for the 6 moths at least, paying him 50k a year at the start would be ludicris and wouldn't happen anywhere else.

djsomers

Poeple you are losing the plot here. There should be no charge to individuals for training.

Iwasfrozen

djsomers wrote: »

Poeple you are losing the plot here. There should be no charge to individuals for training.

Then would you kindly explain you proposed system in a post of more then 3 sentences ?

TJJP

djsomers wrote: »

Poeple you are losing the plot here. There should be no charge to individuals for training.

See my post above. Who should pay then?

Bye-bye HP, Intel, IBM, GSK, StateStreet, ...

djsomers

Government pay private business for running FAS, providing training based on an agreed SLA. Government pay a bonus to new FAS for finding jobs for unemployed persons (less than the cost of Social Welfare) when they have been employed for more than a year. That's a start and in three sentences.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

TJJP

djsomers wrote: »

Government pay private business for running FAS, providing training based on an agreed SLA. Government pay a bonus to new FAS for finding jobs for unemployed persons (less than the cost of Social Welfare) when they have been employed for more than a year. That's a start and in three sentences.

Government pay private business for running FAS ≠ Privatize FAS (sic)

This model already operates. Many of the problems you seem to refer to are a precise result of such a model.

djsomers

Great Moderator you are. Everyone has a different situation, do not discredit someone who may seem to be in a desperate situation because you do not believe them.:mad:

TJJP

Sorry, and your thread was about what?

djsomers

Donegalfella Great Moderator you are. Everyone has a different situation, do not discredit someone who may seem to be in a desperate situation because you do not believe them.:mad:

TJJP this was not directed at you.

Iwasfrozen

Government pay private business for running FAS, providing training based on an agreed SLA. Government pay a bonus to new FAS for finding jobs for unemployed persons (less than the cost of Social Welfare) when they have been employed for more than a year. That's a start and in three sentences.

I said more then three sentences and to be honest I don't really like your attitude, but nevertheless I will respond to your post.

What advantages does this have over the current system ? If the government is already paying for training, providing profits for this company and giving a bonus to the company for finding jobs then where is the benifites for the tax payer.

Also what is stopping the set up of company cartels to extract money out of the government ?

TJJP

I know, so what's the thread about, refuting pro and anti Fás reconstruction or a post by someone who mods an altogether different forum?

djsomers

IwasFrozen. I did read your post and that is why I said in three sentences. It comes down to proper regulation. And we know that this is a problem in government agencies, let the private sector handle it.

TJJP

djsomers wrote: »

IwasFrozen. I did read your post and that is why I said in three sentences. It comes down to proper regulation. And we know that this is a problem in government agencies, let the private sector handle it.

Sentence 1 - Anglo
Sentence 2 - AIB
Sentence 3 - BoI

The private sector has done a great job.

Dirk Gently

djsomers wrote: »

IwasFrozen. I did read your post and that is why I said in three sentences. It comes down to proper regulation. And we know that this is a problem in government agencies, let the private sector handle it.

self regulation?

djsomers

TJJP, I think this thread has gone so far off topic and back with a lot of animosity flying around.. Jesus you can't have a proper debate or a mad idea without someone spitting fire at you. God help Ireland!

djsomers

Clown Bag, of course not self-regulation, we'd be in for a ride. Of course Government regulation.

Iwasfrozen

djsomers wrote: »

IwasFrozen. I did read your post and that is why I said in three sentences. It comes down to proper regulation. And we know that this is a problem in government agencies, let the private sector handle it.

If you read my post then why did you give me three sentences when I asked for more then three sentences ?

djsomers

Iwasfrozen, I did not know it was a test and I was getting marks for every sentence more than three?

Iwasfrozen

djsomers wrote: »

Clown Bag, of course not self-regulation, we'd be in for a ride. Of course Government regulation.

So let me get this straight:
1) You want to privatize FÁS, by which the government gets money from some company.
2) You want the Government to pay back the money it got from the sale of FÁS as profits to the company.
3) You want the Governemnt to pay back more money if the company finds people jobs in a company that it may be in cartel with.
4) You want the government to employ more people, which will cost more money, to regulate this business.
5) You want the Government to provide the training, recruitment and basically cover the cost of everthing that has to do with the actual training itself.

To be honest, I'm just not feeling the idea.

Dirk Gently

djsomers wrote: »

TJJP, I think this thread has gone so far off topic and back with a lot of animosity flying around.. Jesus you can't have a proper debate or a mad idea without someone spitting fire at you. God help Ireland!

to be fair you haven't helped yourself much. You lobbed out an idea and didn't really elaborate on how it would work. I'm open to any ideas on cleaning up fas and getting a better return for my tax money but at a glance privatising it merely opens it up for much more abuse on a massive scale.

Maybe think about it a bit and come back tomorrow and post up a detailed plan of how it would work. People can then debate it on its merits, good points and bad.

TJJP

No, it hasn't really. You proposed a privatisation of state assets, such as they are, as an alternative to public ownership - in the public good. The public good is likely better served by non-gougers running the state training agency in the public good.

If trainees wish to seek alternatives then there are many, most of which do a reasonable job. Higher education isn’t for all it seems (thought I think it probably is) and in the meantime Fás fills a gap on the road to a knowledge economy. We won’t be constructing PCs in twenty years, I’ll tell you that. Have a look at Ireland's educational profile, age 20-35 fine, age 35-55 and technical skills, educational levels in a knowledge based economy. Someone has to fill to the gap, perhaps Fás could?

djsomers

No on all points.

djsomers

Yes that is the problem with just lobbing out an idea, you expect that you will get some semblance of creativity back, but alas..

Dirk Gently

djsomers wrote: »

Yes that is the problem with just lobbing out an idea, you expect that you will get some semblance of creativity back, but alas..

so in effect you were asking if it was possible to privatise fas, as opposed to promoting an actual model for privatisation?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Anyone not prepared for a bit of critical thought shouldn't really start a thread anywhere on the Internet. This is a discussion forum. Not a cheerleading forum.

Offer something more substantial as a proposal and there might be a discussoin worth having but in the absence of a working model, there's very little to discuss.

Lirael

djsomers wrote: »

Yes that is the problem with just lobbing out an idea, you expect that you will get some semblance of creativity back, but alas..

DJ I think they may have a better idea when u explain to them how Polish "FAS" operates or shall I do that?

I do know what your point is, but still privatization of FAS in case of Ireland (and any other country) is not good as that kind of "business" cannot be in private hands

it may operate way better that gvrt run one but it would then mean that the gvrt would have to pay twice for same - once to the privately run FAS and for the second time the company that would hire the employee and there would never be any assurance that this employee will stay there for the period of time that he would somehow pay the grt back the money that were paid for him

Dirk Gently

actually what do you think donegal? As the champion of all things private do you think djsomers idea a runner? I'm failing to see the benefit and can see it becoming a massive cartel tbh.

TJJP

Alas my ass. This subject isn't a joke. We're fine (well maybe not) now, but what will the future hold? Do you understand the likes of this in our current predicament?