Parents allowing their children take up seats on buses/trains etc

rs

I find this thread amazing.

I would, never, ever, EVER insist that a child (especially a young child) be moved so I could sit down. I would consider it the absolute height of bad manners to do this. Ticket or no ticket, rules or no rules. Call me old fashioned, but women and children first, always.

Do you insist old people give up their seat to you to? They aren't paying either you know!

Making a mother and child significantly uncomfortable just so you can sit down. I seriously question how you were raised if this seems like appropriate behavior to you. I would gladly give up my seat for a small child.

Look kids, see that assh0le forcing that poor mother to carry her child on her lap just so he can sit down. That's exactly the kind of person I don't want you be when you grow up.

smelltheglove

amdublin wrote: »

Is there anything about free fares for children printed anywhere??? Conveniently you seem to be able to enjoy the free fare part but ignore the condition that it does not entitle you to take a seat from a fee paying adult.

That is fine that is your perogative not to move unless the driver instructed. If that happened I would just go to the driver and ask him/her to inform you about the rule.

No, I don't go out of my way to knowingly break rules which are there for a reason and are quite fair in my opinion. You have not paid for your child so please put him on your lap as per the condition of carriage.

I like how you direct your instructions to me, thankfully I do not use public transport so would not come across people like you asking me to move my children, what I was saying was if I did and to be honest I would quite enjoy the fact that the bus driver would need to ask me to put my child on my lap, it would then point out to the rest of the travellers that the man sitting next to me was happy to put myself and my child in an uncomfortable position quite selfishly.

Fire with fire and that.

amdublin

smelltheglove wrote: »

I like how you direct your instructions to me, thankfully I do not use public transport so would not come across people like you asking me to move my children, what I was saying was if I did and to be honest I would quite enjoy the fact that the bus driver would need to ask me to put my child on my lap, it would then point out to the rest of the travellers that the man sitting next to me was happy to put myself and my child in an uncomfortable position quite selfishly.

Fire with fire and that.

What instruction did I direct

Why do you think I am a man rather than a woman

What about my uncomfortable situation? You have not paid for a ticket for your child, and your child supposed to be on your lap. I have paid a lot of money for my ticket.

Enii

Wow I am amazed by some of the replies.

The OP is purely suggesting a way to accomodate the majority of people in the sitting position (albeit meaning that some children will actually *shock horror* have to sit on their mother's laps) on bus and train journeys.

What's the big deal? Do you not think about your fellow travellers? Or do you just care that you and yours have a seat and screw the rest of the suckers who happened to get on after you? I am shocked by people's lack of consideration for others.

chocgirl

amdublin wrote: »

The mother should buy a ticket for the child if she wishes him/her to sit on a seat rather than her lap.

Paying for the ticket is hardly the issue. Would you ask an elderly person to give up their seat as they had not paid for it? Or someone on a social welfare allowance? The issue as I see it is that you believe you deserve the seat more than the mother and child!

amdublin

rs wrote: »

but women and children first, always.

And this woman would like a seat.

And if that means asking someone to adhere to the rules of the railway well don't you think that's only fair?

amdublin

chocgirl wrote: »

Paying for the ticket is hardly the issue. Would you ask an elderly person to give up their seat as they had not paid for it? Or someone on a social welfare allowance? The issue as I see it is that you believe you deserve the seat more than the mother and child!

We've been through this already in previous posts. No, because there is no other option for them.

*Shock horror* I am asking a parent to place their child on their lap. (Which the parent should just do automatically under the conditions of carriage - I shouldn't have to ask!!!!)

Seriously people what is wrong with that?

smelltheglove

amdublin wrote: »

What instruction did I direct

On the previous page when you quoted my response and replied with this

amdublin wrote: »

Conveniently you seem to be able to locate and enjoy the free fare part but ignore the condition that it does not entitle your child to take a seat from a fee paying adult.

That is fine that is your perogative not to move unless the driver instructed. If that happened I would just go to the driver and ask him/her to inform you about the rule.

No, I don't go out of my way to knowingly break rules which are there for a reason and are quite fair in my opinion. You have not paid for your child so please put him on your lap as per the condition of carriage.

I assume you are a guy as I would never guess a woman or a mother to put another mother in this situation.

If you can sit comfortably with yourself after insisting a woman puts a heavy child on her lap fair play to ya as honestly I couldnt live with myself. I know if I was on a train or a bus and I was able to put my child on my lap for another traveller I would do it out of common courtesy, if I did not do it I would have a valid reason for it, sickness, child refusing to sit or whatever but being put in an embarrassing situation such as your request I would prefer to stand my ground to be honest.

As it goes on public transport first come first served, if you cant accept that buy a car.

shionnach

some of the mothers out there are too scary to ask them could their child sit on their lap so you could have the seat, it wouldn't be worth the hassle

amdublin

smelltheglove wrote: »

I know if I was on a train or a bus and I was able to put my child on my lap for another traveller I would do it out of common courtesy,

As it goes on public transport first come first served, if you cant accept that buy a car.

Oh you might do it sometimes would you? So it is just out of stubborness you wouldn't do it other times??? *sigh*

No, you are wrong. The first come first served scenario is not correct in this situation. Your child is only entitled to travel for free if it is not taking up a seat that a fee paying adult requires. So even I come second under the rules of the railway you are obligated to take your child out of the seat and provide me with the seat. (Which I have paid for and your child has not)

amdublin

shionnach wrote: »

some of the mothers out there are too scary to ask them could their child sit on their lap so you could have the seat, it wouldn't be worth the hassle

Tell me about it. Seriously if I ever go on like this about my child I need someone to shake me hard and tell me to cop on.

mikemac

amdublin wrote: »

Tell me about it. Seriously if I ever go on like this about my child I need someone to shake me hard and tell me to cop on.

So you ask easy targets to move?

rs

To me, a mother and child have more need for a seat than anyone other than the elderly or disabled.

If you happen to be that mother with a child, then that means you to. If you are by yourself then to me you are no different to anyone else on the train and should have less right to seat than a parent with children. The fact that you have paid is irrelevant, as is any stupid irish rail rulebook.

I personally would keep my kids on my lap if there was a shortage of seats. I can do this comfortably for both me and my kids. Not everyone can. I would never, ever insist on someone else doing the same.

smelltheglove

amdublin wrote: »

Oh you might do it sometimes would you? So it is just out of stubborness you wouldn't do it other times??? *sigh*

I like how you leave out the rest of the sentence, I would out of common courtesy unless I had valid reason such as illness but if in this instance I was confronted by someone citing rules, yes I would ask the driver to request me to do so as I said fire with fire, if you want to embarrass me you may as well embarrass yourself too.

efb

they should buy a ticket for their kid so

chocgirl

amdublin wrote: »

We've been through this already in previous posts. No, because there is no other option for them.

*Shock horror* I am asking a parent to place their child on their lap. (Which the parent should just do automatically under the conditions of carriage - I shouldn't have to ask!!!!)

Seriously people what is wrong with that?

As I've already said it is not pleasant having a child on your lap for a train journey, the mother or child may not be well and most children don't travel well and the lack of space doesn't help.

I don't have children so this doesn't impact on me but I do believe we have a social duty that extends beyond the "conditions of carriage". I wouldn't ask a mother to move her young child for me in the same way that I wouldn't ask an elderly person to give up her seat for me. Obviously not everybody feels the same way. This thread really is an eye-opener!

amdublin

mikemac wrote: »

So you ask easy targets to move?

Eh, yes, SHOCK HORROR, I ask a parent to put their child on their lap.

Oh what a bad person I am t......EEEEK.....to ask a parent to put their child on their lap.

mikemac

amdublin wrote: »

Eh, yes, SHOCK HORROR, I ask a parent to put their child on their lap.

Oh what a bad person I am t......EEEEK.....to ask a parent to put their child on their lap.

I only posted as you responded to this post:

some of the mothers out there are too scary to ask them could their child sit on their lap so you could have the seat, it wouldn't be worth the hassle

Anyway onto my other question.
Do you ask pensioners to move, they don't pay either you know

Enii

mikemac wrote: »

Anyway onto my other question.
Do you ask pensioners to move, they don't pay either you know

This isn't fair to the OP. You are dragging the thread way off topic. Read back to the original post. It only relates to children being taken on to their mothers laps.

amdublin

mikemac wrote: »

Anyway onto my other question.
Do you ask pensioners to move, they don't pay either you know

We've been through this already. No I don't ask pensioners to sit on peoples laps.

Also it is not in the terms of their pass that they have to travel with a fee paying adult and sit on the lap of the fee paying adult in order that other fee paying adults can sit.

It is with children however.

amdublin

efb wrote: »

they should buy a ticket for their kid so

Exactly.

If you want free fare you will have to give up seat if neccessary.

If you want seat buy a ticket.

mikemac

Enii wrote: »

This isn't fair to the OP. You are dragging the thread way off topic. Read back to the original post. It only relates to children being taken on to their mothers laps.

Fair enough, I've scanned through the thread and I've not read every post.

As I said, if I were the OP and paying over 100 euro a month I'd be mad to lose my seat to someone who didn't pay.
I'd have zero hesitation in bollocking a commuter with a sportsbag on a seat. But a child? I wouldn't do it.

But the OP would and as a paying customer they can and they are trying to get what they paid for.
Nothing wrong with that, just most people wouldn't do it, that's all

amdublin

mikemac wrote: »

I'd have zero hesitation in bollocking a commuter with a sportsbag on a seat. But a child? I wouldn't do it.

No bollocking. I politely asked. She didn't like it. I explained the rule. She moved the child.

cc-offe

On a bus where there are seat belts provided I will always belt my child in and it would be dangerous to wrap the belt around the 2 of us so no I would not sit my child on my knee.

If a seat isn't even guaranteed for someone who buys a ticket then why would I pay for a ticket for a small child?

Nevyn

Can we please keep this discussion civil as per the forum and site rules.

mikemac

Of course you politely asked. I've read your previous posts and never said you were anything less then courteous and assertive.

metrovelvet

If the parent is older than you do still ask them? Wouldnt that be disrespecting your elders?

What about grandparents travelling with their grandchild?

ToniTuddle

This thread is an eye opener. I never knew parents were suppose to take children out of their buggys...some safety regulation?

Anyway, I don't see why soo many posters are getting soo defensive.
If the option is there to put the child on their lap on a busy bus then I don't see why they wouldn't.
Yes some children don't travel well on long journeys but if it's only a 20 minute journey I'm sure the parent could handle having the kid on their lap.

Someone argued that the mother/father may be unwell and not want the child sitting on their lap. Well the person who is standing may be unwell and need a seat!!

Chinafoot

amdublin wrote: »

Even aside from the fact that the child is actually not entitled to the seat I was always brought up to "give my seat up for an adult". What sort of example are these parents setting for their child?

amdublin wrote: »

Nevertheless even if you didn't know, why would a parent let their child sit on a seat and leave an adult standinng instead of putting them on your lap (or if they were old enough telling them to stand)???

What kind of example is that for a child?

Don't you think children should be taught to respect elders (ie. offer them a seat)?

amdublin wrote: »

Don't you think that it is good for society that the "next generation" are taught to respect their elders and how to be good citizens by offering an adult a seat on the train.

Why should I, after a long day at work and having bought my monthly train ticket have to stand beside a mother and her 1.5 year old child taking up two seats after having paid for only one.

amdublin wrote: »

And also I would feel guilty as a citizen if my child was in a seat while there were adults standing. I just don't think that it is a good society to live in where age is not respected. When my children are older and I have paid for tickets for them I will still expect them to stand and offer their seat to any adults standing.

I'm absolutely amazed at your attitude that adults should always get a seat over a child. You will expect your fare paying children to give their seats to an adult. Are you for real? How old are you? Seriously, unless you're in your 60s you most certainly do not deserve a seat more than anyone else. If a 5/10/15/30 year old got a seat before you they most certainly should not feel obliged to hand it over to you because you're older than them. Thats an incredible thing to expect.

I pay for my annual ticket, I spend my long hard days in work on my feet but you know what? If those office men and women who have spent the day on their arses get a seat before I do, such is life.

The child didn't have a ticket, fair enough. You got your seat, well done. You should not, however, assume that being older than someone entitles you to anything.

fergalr

This thread is a bit sad.

Theres a few themes in it that are sad.

One is the idea that 'rules are rules' - as if the fact the rules allow you to move someone is a good enough reason to move them. That's a pity. Common sense and courtesy should tell you that just because CIEs rules allow you to demand something doesn't mean its ok too.

Another theme is this theme that the child didn't pay for the seat, so its ok to take it from them. Its all very materialistic. "I've paid for my 100euro monthly ticket, and I will have my pound of flesh seat". Yes, its awful to pay a lot of money and not get a seat. But that isn't the fault of the child. Its the fault of the transport company. The fact that you somehow paid a lot for your ticket doesn't provide you with some sort of moral license to remove a small child from their seat.


Lets put it another way.

What if the parent was dreadfully poor, and both child and parent were sick. The child was small, and the train was crowded.

Your two main arguments, (that you had paid for your ticket while the child hadn't, and that the rules say you get the seat) would still apply.


Would you therefore use this fact to demand the child be moved from the seat?

I'd hope you'd say "No, I'd use my common sense, and not demand the child be moved. I wouldnt force a sick child into the aisle, or onto a sick parents lap."
I think thats the right thing to say.
And it shows that your arguments don't really hold. Sometimes common sense, and courtesy, is more important than whether someone paid for a ticket, or what the rules are.

I just think that it applies in the case of small children, as well as sick ones, and tired parents, as well as sick ones.