Shane Lowry - 2019 Champion Golfer of The Year (note first post please for posting guidance)

techdiver

Is he going to play the web.com playoffs?

Derek Zoolander

AGC wrote: »

If he is capable of winning a WGC when on form he could do a major. Should have won the US Open so yes I would not be surprised if he won one, not because he is Irish.

Same can be said for plenty of other golfers though who on form can win a major. Look at some of the 1 hit wonders that have won majors. Lowry would certainly be well ahead of them.

how should he have won a US Open - DJ was clearly the best golfer that week even allowing for the rule F up...

abff

techdiver wrote: »

Is he going to play the web.com playoffs?

Good question. If he's serious about making it on the PGA Tour, then he should take part in the playoffs. It's either that or throw his hat at it and return to the Europeantour full time.

techdiver

abff wrote: »

Good question. If he's serious about making it on the PGA Tour, then he should take part in the playoffs. It's either that or throw his hat at it and return to the Europeantour full time.

Surely he should...

That's how Power got his card back last year.

GreeBo

AGC wrote: »

If he is capable of winning a WGC when on form he could do a major. Should have won the US Open so yes I would not be surprised if he won one, not because he is Irish.

Same can be said for plenty of other golfers though who on form can win a major. Look at some of the 1 hit wonders that have won majors. Lowry would certainly be well ahead of them.

Equally though, there are plenty of players who are far better than Lowry who havent won a major.

charlieIRL

I’d say he’ll come back to live in Europe and play few few PGA tour events next year.

slave1

We've had a great summer, great summer for golf, that's what Florida residents get every "winter", how you could walk away from that and back to ****e Euro weather is beyond me, it's what Poults/GMac and others live there

downthemiddle

GreeBo wrote: »

Equally though, there are plenty of players who are far better than Lowry who havent won a major.

And far worse who have.

AGC

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

how should he have won a US Open - DJ was clearly the best golfer that week even allowing for the rule F up...

4 clear going into the last round, getting it to -7 he should be winning.

davo10

AGC wrote: »

ILook at some of the 1 hit wonders that have won majors. Lowry would certainly be well ahead of them.

Until he wins a major, he clearly isn't.

OEP

I don't see how Lowry can be someone who you consider will win a major. Of course any player can win a major, but if he was to win it he would be a surprise winner. As a professional he has only 2 wins and hasn't been inside the top 50 since the end of 2016. For someone to be in the category of potential winner, I think they need to be in the top 20, or be a player that has be in or around the top of the game for a long time. That said, in golf anyone can have a great 4 days and win and that's where Lowry comes in at the moment I think.

AGC

davo10 wrote: »

Until he wins a major, he clearly isn't.

I would disagree massively there. Lowry is a far better player then Shaun Micheel or Rich Beem

davo10

AGC wrote: »

I would disagree massively there. Lowry is a far better player then Shaun Micheel or Rich Beem

They have both won majors, hard to see what you are basing your opinion on.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

FixdePitchmark

I know it is a bad year. But not sure why people have such little faith in an Irish golfer who just finished 12 in the last major.

The fact he is Irish is part of it - are we not supporters of Irish golf ?

It is not like this is blind faith. He has won on all main tours and would be a strong candidate to win a major imo. That would be a massive achievement - but if people here think that is not in Shane's mind - they seriously underestimate him

I am a bit perplexed by his poor performance in The Open Championship - but it is one I would have in mind for him.

Golf careers are about phases - there are very few out there that don't have ups and downs. Yes obviously guys lose form and end up off tour etc. But if you follow golf you know it has phases.

Likes of Nick Faldo , Lee Westwood, , Ernie Ells , Phil Mickelson, Garcia - all have different periods of their career.
And they are guys at the top top of the sport.

I can see him bounce back fairly quick.

We need Irish golfers at the top - we don't have too many.

OEP

Of course we support him, but it doesn't mean it has to be blind support. Graeme McDowell only has one major, Darren Clarke one major - they have 14 and 21 wins respectively. Shane has 3 wins, one as an amateur. He is not at the level they were at at the same age, and it's not like they were raging hot favourites to win majors either. 12th is a good finish but there's such a massive difference to 12th and winning. Anyone in the field is capable of 12th, but it's a different story when it comes to winning.

I hope he does win a major, but his game needs to improve quite a bit or he needs to have a hot streak during one of them.

OEP

Of course we support him, but it doesn't mean it has to be blind support. Graeme McDowell only has one major, Darren Clarke one major - they have 14 and 21 wins respectively. Shane has 3 wins, one as an amateur. He is not at the level they were at at the same age, and it's not like they were raging hot favourites to win majors either. 12th is a good finish but there's such a massive difference to 12th and winning. Anyone in the field is capable of 12th, but it's a different story when it comes to winning.

I hope he does win a major, but his game needs to improve quite a bit or he needs to have a hot streak during one of them.

Pogue eile

davo10 wrote: »

AGC wrote: »

I would disagree massively there. Lowry is a far better player then Shaun Micheel or Rich Beem

They have both won majors, hard to see what you are basing your opinion on.

So you would solely rank golfers on majors won and nothing else? Were you not on another thread, incidently also about an Irish golfer, claiming that  Koepka, Johnson and Spieth and god know who else were all better than a golfer who has won 4 majors?

You seem to move the goalposts depending on your arguement with the only consistency being your need to belittle all Irish golfers.

AGC

davo10 wrote: »

They have both won majors, hard to see what you are basing your opinion on.

My opinion is Shane is a better player than they are.

Micheel and Beem better players than Fowler, Monty etc...?

davo10

Pogue eile wrote: »

So you would solely rank golfers on majors won and nothing else? Were you not on another thread, incidently also about an Irish golfer, claiming that  Koepka, Johnson and Spieth and god know who else were all better than a golfer who has won 4 majors?

You seem to move the goalposts depending on your arguement with the only consistency being your need to belittle all Irish golfers.

No, I am saying that it is hard to agree that one golfer who has lost his card, has 2 wins in 10 years as a pro is a "far better" golfer that 2 pros were at the time they won majors.

If you ask me do I think Koepka, Speith, Thomas and Johnson are better golfers than McIllroy, now, yes I think they are. McIllroy's game has regressed.

I don't care if they are Irish, couldn't care less, it amazes me that you think they deserve more praise just because of where they were born, what difference does that make to them as golfers?

davo10

AGC wrote: »

My opinion is Shane is a better player than they are.

Micheel and Beem better players than Fowler, Monty etc...?

How can you possibly compare them as golfers?, they are from different eras. Did you see Beem or Micheel's play week in week out like we do now with all the TV coverage? Did you see either of them when they won their majors? How would Lowry have faired on 2002 or Beem/Micheels fair now if they were young golfers?

I think that based on his career, Monty is better than Beem, Micheels, Lowry and so far, Fowler. Wasn't he the top golfer on European Tour for something like 7 years?

Pogue eile

davo10 wrote: »

Pogue eile wrote: »

So you would solely rank golfers on majors won and nothing else? Were you not on another thread, incidently also about an Irish golfer, claiming that  Koepka, Johnson and Spieth and god know who else were all better than a golfer who has won 4 majors?

You seem to move the goalposts depending on your arguement with the only consistency being your need to belittle all Irish golfers.

No, I am saying that it is hard to agree that one golfer who has lost his card, has 2 wins in 10 years as a pro is a "far better" golfer that 2 pros were at the time they won majors.

If you ask me do I think Koepka, Speith, Thomas and Johnson are better golfers than McIllroy, now, yes I think they are. McIllroy's game has regressed.

I don't care if they are Irish, couldn't care less, it amazes me that you think they deserve more praise just because of where they were born, what difference does that make to them as golfers?

Please dont make stuff up, it makes you look desperate and foolish.

AGC

davo10 wrote: »

How can you possibly compare them as golfers?, they are from different eras. Did you see Beem or Micheel's play week in week out like we do now with all the TV coverage? Did you see either of them when they won their majors? How would Lowry have faired on 2002 or Beem/Micheels fair now if they were young golfers?

I watched both their major wins and didn’t see them week in week out before or after that because they were not in the TV coverage because they were freak winners.

Lowry made it inside the top 20 in the world. Has been consistently been in the top 100/50 over the last few years. I highly doubt either of the above made it to that level on a consistent basis.

You sound like Peter Lawrie on the Newstalk podcast.

davo10

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I know it is a bad year. But not sure why people have such little faith in an Irish golfer who just finished 12 in the last major.

The fact he is Irish is part of it - are we not supporters of Irish golf ?

We need Irish golfers at the top - we don't have too many.

I rest my case.

Pogue eile

:ermm: You're finally loosing it I think davo, have a lie down for yourself there

davo10

Pogue eile wrote: »

:ermm: You're finally loosing it I think davo, have a lie down for yourself there

Why not add something to the discussion instead of snide comments? You posted about belittling Irish golfers, this is a thread about the golfer Shane Lowry, does the fact that he is Irish make him a better or worse golfer? No it doesn't, so why the condescension?

Russman

OEP wrote: »

Of course we support him, but it doesn't mean it has to be blind support. Graeme McDowell only has one major, Darren Clarke one major - they have 14 and 21 wins respectively. Shane has 3 wins, one as an amateur. He is not at the level they were at at the same age, and it's not like they were raging hot favourites to win majors either. 12th is a good finish but there's such a massive difference to 12th and winning. Anyone in the field is capable of 12th, but it's a different story when it comes to winning.

I hope he does win a major, but his game needs to improve quite a bit or he needs to have a hot streak during one of them.

I like this ^^

Unfortunately Shane is probably still in the “potentially great” category (yes, even with a WGC). We might not like that, but his body of work just doesn’t support anything else at the moment.
I like him a lot, and know for a fact he’s one of the nicest guys you could come across, but there’s something missing from the jigsaw imo. Whether that’s drive, commitment, fitness, hard nosed-ness, short game, long game, I’ve no idea. Maybe you do need to be a bo11ox to be successful (I hope not though).
For someone with such a renowned short game, he sure seems to drop a lot of shots around the greens. I haven’t looked at stats but I guess the question would be, is his long game putting him into positions where it’s not realistic to get up and down, or is his poor putting causing him to miss out on bread and butter ups and down ?
I’m not going to knock someone who’s won €10m in his career, is still young, healthy and has a young family, but something needs to change if he’s to make that leap to consistent contender in tournaments. I know all players can’t be grinders, and for the more talented or “feel” based players (which I think Shane is), grinding it out of the dirt rarely works, the answer lies elsewhere. Maybe the change of caddie will do the trick.

That and he needs to play more golf, 19 events this season is a f—king disgrace, even with a new baby.

davo10

AGC wrote: »

I watched both their major wins and didn’t see them week in week out before or after that because they were not in the TV coverage because they were freak winners.

Lowry made it inside the top 20 in the world. Has been consistently been in the top 100/50 over the last few years. I highly doubt either of the above made it to that level on a consistent basis.

You sound like Peter Lawrie on the Newstalk podcast.

According to his bio, his win help to establish Beem in the top 20 of world rankings, I can't find confirmation of how long he was there though.

https://tvnewsroom.org/biography-images/rich-beem-146658/

FixdePitchmark

davo10 wrote: »

I don't care if they are Irish, couldn't care less, it amazes me that you think they deserve more praise just because of where they were born, what difference does that make to them as golfers?

We have had a fairly golden period of Irish performance in majors.

But in the 80s and 90s - a full 2 decades we had little or nobody at the top top of the game.

We had golfers like Christy O'Connor, Eamon Darcy , Des Smyth - winning events and in majors - top 10s etc. But they were not at the same level as Shane - and Shane by the end of his career will have had a far more significant impact. (IMO)

You are unusual that you seem to lack national pride. But for most Irish golf fans an Irish man near the top in events - brings so much more to it. Even the likes of the Ryder cup is not the same.

So yes, it does matter to most that he is Irish - we don't get too many players to the top of the game. Shane is one of our few hopes at present. Cherish them when they are there.

davo10

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

We have had a fairly golden period of Irish performance in majors.

But in the 80s and 90s - a full 2 decades we had little or nobody at the top top of the game.

We had golfers like Christy O'Connor, Eamon Darcy , Des Smyth - winning events and in majors - top 10s etc. But they were not at the same level as Shane - and Shane by the end of his career will have had a far more significant impact. (IMO)

You are unusual that you seem to lack national pride. But for most Irish golf fans an Irish man near the top in events - brings so much more to it. Even the likes of the Ryder cup is not the same.

So yes, it does matter to most that he is Irish - we don't get too many players to the top of the game. Shane is one of our few hopes at present. Cherish them when they are there.

I think Lowry has a bit to go before he will be held in the same regard as those three.

FixdePitchmark

davo10 wrote: »

I think Lowry has a bit to go before he will be held in the same regard as those three.

but he is 31.

I'll ask you a straight question .

Do you think he will achieve more than the golfers mentioned ?

AGC

davo10 wrote: »

According to his bio, his win help to establish Beem in the top 20 of world rankings, I can't find confirmation of how long he was there though.

https://tvnewsroom.org/biography-images/rich-beem-146658/

Just had a quick look, 18th his highest after a good finish at northern trust open but doesn’t look like he stayed for longer than a week.

AGC

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

but he is 31.

I'll ask you a straight question .

Do you think he will achieve more than the golfers mentioned ?

For me that would be a no, I can’t see Shane getting near Christy’s record for starters and no where near impact.

davo10

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

but he is 31.

I'll ask you a straight question .

Do you think he will achieve more than the golfers mentioned ?

They have 51 pro wins between them, COCJr is remembered world wide for one of the most stunning shots ever played in the Ryder Cup, so he has a hell of a lot to do to top those three, and he ain't looking good at the moment.

FixdePitchmark

AGC wrote: »

For me that would be a no, I can’t see Shane getting near Christy’s record for starters

What part of Christy's record ?

His senior wins ?

Russman

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

but he is 31.

I'll ask you a straight question .

Do you think he will achieve more than the golfers mentioned ?

You could argue that, with a WGC, he already has.
Personally I think he’s a way better player, BUT he still has to prove it.
Christy and Eamonn in fairness are mostly remembered for hitting iconic shots in the Ryder Cup. Great players as they were in their day, it’s an apples and oranges comparison.

AGC

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What part of Christy's record ?

His senior wins ?

Impact on the game.

For the 3 names you picked they possibly have 10 Ryder Cups between them, granted some as GB&I and no idea how many pro wins.

I do not disagree with you on Shane being good enough to win a major and that would separate him from who you named but to be held in the names above Shane certainly needs Ryder Cup, otherwise in the future Harrington, Clarke, McGinley, Gmac, Rory will be held in a different league as major winners( McGinley apart) and multiple Ryder cup players.

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But not sure why people have such little faith in an Irish golfer who just finished 12 in the last major.

So when the player is Irish, finishing 12th in a major is a sign of greatness, but when they are a US player like Micheel or Beem, winning it means nothing?

Stop this bus, I want to get off.

Russman

davo10 wrote: »

They have 51 pro wins between them, COCJr is remembered world wide for one of the most stunning shots ever played in the Ryder Cup, so he has a hell of a lot to do to top those three, and he ain't looking good at the moment.

51 pro wins is a bit misleading though, in the context of the debate, isn’t it ?
I mean, 15 were domestic Irish tournaments, 13 senior events, and 6 fourball events.

Des Smyth’s 8 wins alone on the main tour would be a far better benchmark re Shane. If he was to pick up 6 or 7 wins in the next decade he’d have done well.

FixdePitchmark

AGC wrote: »

Impact on the game.

For the 3 names you picked they possibly have 10 Ryder Cups between them, granted some as GB&I and no idea how many pro wins.

I do not disagree with you on Shane being good enough to win a major and that would separate him from who you named but to be held in the names above Shame certainly needs Ryder Cup, otherwise in the future Harrington, Clarke, McGinley, Gmac, Rory will be held in a different league as major winners( McGinley apart) and multiple Ryder cup players.

I know this is controversial - but I personally don't rate Ryder cup appearances. Going over to the US and winning an a event there - a WGC is streets ahead of that (IMO).

Players like Mark Roe - Chris Wood - Stephen Gallacher - Donaldson have played at Ryder cups - and they are some of the good ones I could have picked players who couldn't clean Shane's shoes.

If Shane returned to European tour he would have multiple wins and be pushing a Ryder Cup place. But he had more ambition and backed himself in the states - it paid off with a win. But he has had a dip in form.

Some of these vaulted Irish wins mentioned by Irish golfers are little more than regional events. Shane got to 21st in the OWGR - in an era when it is a true global game of incredible standard

He will learn from this - the hard way. I'd say he will come back stronger and better.

To be honest the Ryder cup thing is a load of bull**** (IMO).

I wouldn't dream of using a Ryder Cup - a fake team match play event as a KPI for a golfer.

FixdePitchmark

GreeBo wrote: »

So when the player is Irish, finishing 12th in a major is a sign of greatness, but when they are a US player like Micheel or Beem, winning it means nothing?

Stop this bus, I want to get off.

I don't know why you are quoting me - I never mentioned Micheel or Beem

FixdePitchmark

Russman wrote: »

51 pro wins is a bit misleading though, in the context of the debate, isn’t it ?
I mean, 15 were domestic Irish tournaments, 13 senior events, and 6 fourball events.

Des Smyth’s 8 wins alone on the main tour would be a far better benchmark re Shane. If he was to pick up 6 or 7 wins in the next decade he’d have done well.

Yes Shane is running back to Europe to be in the

Sumrie-Bournemouth Better-Ball (with Eamonn Darcy)

AGC

GreeBo wrote: »

So when the player is Irish, finishing 12th in a major is a sign of greatness, but when they are a US player like Micheel or Beem, winning it means nothing?

Stop this bus, I want to get off.

Did anyone say their major wins mean nothing?

FixdePitchmark

AGC wrote: »

Did anyone say their major wins mean nothing?

No - Just, he was on the wrong bus.

AGC

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If Shane returned to European tour he would have multiple wins and be pushing a Ryder Cup place. But he had more ambition and backed himself in the states - it paid off with a win. But he has had a dip in form.

Some of these vaulted Irish wins mentioned by Irish golfers are little more than regional events. Shane got to 21st in the OWGR - in an era when it is a true global game of incredible standard

He will learn from this - the hard way. I'd say he will come back stronger and better.

I could be wrong but Shane has only dedicated 1 block of time to the PGA Tour and that was this year?

So saying returning to Europe or being in Europe would lead to multiple wins is a bit off, he’s only been away 1 year and before that mixed it up as much as any player with a high enough ranking would

GreeBo

AGC wrote: »

Did anyone say their major wins mean nothing?

Well I dont know quite what else to take from a sample of your dismissive posts below?

AGC wrote: »

I would disagree massively there. Lowry is a far better player then Shaun Micheel or Rich Beem

AGC wrote: »

My opinion is Shane is a better player than they are.

AGC wrote: »

Look at some of the 1 hit wonders that have won majors. Lowry would certainly be well ahead of them.

GreeBo

downthemiddle wrote: »

And far worse who have.

One of those lists is FAR longer than the other though, I know which one I'd rather be on.

AGC

GreeBo wrote: »

Well I dont know quite what else to take from a sample of your dismissive posts below?

Yeah I would rate him as a better player, taking world ranking for example would prove that but you’ll be a while finding a quote where I said their majors mean nothing

Pogue eile

Jaysus will someone stop the bus!

GreeBo

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The fact he is Irish is part of it - are we not supporters of Irish golf ?

We need Irish golfers at the top - we don't have too many.

Whats any of that got to do with anything that anyone on here is saying?:rolleyes:

His ability as a golfer is not related to where he is from, so (most) people can be both from the same country as he is AND be objective about him.

You don't seem to be able to be objective about any Irish golfers, so frankly its pretty pointless trying to talk to you about it.