PDs "Doctor Death" pushes Coalition to Tipping Point

Het-Field

The man credited with administering the final nail to the coffin of the Progressive Democrats, Noel Grealish TD, withdrew his support for the government on Friday. This is due to Grealish's interest in a Lowry, Helay-Rae, Gregory style deal, which will potentially enshire the safety of his seat in the next General Election

This has left Cowen with a "minority government", and unless a deal can be stuck, it could make for a very interesting day next Wednesday. Although, I am not planning to hold my breath, the numbers are now there to provide for a governmental fall.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/td-quits-coalition-as-pay-talks-collapse-1965205.html

Eliot Rosewater

I wondered why no one had replied to this, and then I realized Het-Field left out the mandatory "FF are pigs," "Brian Cowen is a wanker" and "**** the bankers" to get the discussion going. Irrationality seems to be the key to success here.

---

I always draw a thick thick line between TD's not in Fianna Fail and TD's not in the Whip. 3 of those not in the Whip - Jimmy Devins, Eamon Scanlon and Jim McDaid - are still members of Fianna Fail. There is every chance these 3 TD's will vote for the Government because they still want to be in Fianna Fail, on account of some election tactic.

I think a lot of it comes down to getting re-elected, plain and simple. TD's havent fled from FF because they are afraid of the losing the parties support, financially and otherwise, and they want security. Of those who have left only a small number had the courage to do it outright. The three aforementioned are trying to toe the middle line - attempting to woe the electorate by not being in the Whip yet still hanging onto the security of the party.

I held my breath for the Greens, and that didnt happen, so I wont be holding my breath for this. When is the actual vote, incidentally?

Victor

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

attempting to woe the electorate

"Woo the electorate"?

I held my breath for the Greens, and that didnt happen, so I wont be holding my breath for this. When is the actual vote, incidentally?

There will be some votes on budget day and that will be the headline items. The nitty-gritty awaits the Finance Act and Social Welfare Act which may take well into the new year.

Mr.Micro

Het-Field wrote: »

The man credited with administering the final nail to the coffin of the Progressive Democrats, Noel Grealish TD, withdrew his support for the government on Friday. This is due to Grealish's interest in a Lowry, Helay-Rae, Gregory style deal, which will potentially enshire the safety of his seat in the next General Election

This has left Cowen with a "minority government", and unless a deal can be stuck, it could make for a very interesting day next Wednesday. Although, I am not planning to hold my breath, the numbers are now there to provide for a governmental fall.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/td-quits-coalition-as-pay-talks-collapse-1965205.html

Yet another little man trying to save his skin, posturing for his constituents, pretending his outrage at FF led Government. The rats will hang on as there is more damage to be done to our economy and country, so deals will be done to ensure that the FF/Green debacle will survive

Eliot Rosewater

Victor wrote: »

"Woo the electorate"?

Perhaps a Freudian slip on my behalf :pac:

Victor wrote: »

There will be some votes on budget day and that will be the headline items. The nitty-gritty awaits the Finance Act and Social Welfare Act which may take well into the new year.

So do you think the crunch will come with these later bills, rather than the budget day vote itself?

Victor

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

So do you think the crunch will come with these later bills, rather than the budget day vote itself?

More likely on the day, unless extra measures are implemented.

Liam Byrne

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I wondered why no one had replied to this, and then I realized Het-Field left out the mandatory "FF are pigs," "Brian Cowen is a wanker" and "**** the bankers" to get the discussion going. Irrationality seems to be the key to success here.

Why do you view those perfectly logical statements as "irrational" ?

And if "irrationality" was indeed the "key to success", FF would be flying it by now; there isn't any much more appropriate word for bailing out a cesspit of a bank without reading reports or paying over the odds for assets or rolling over when a bank wants to pay their heads more than you've "suggested but refused to enforce in law".

Dirk Gently

As a PD he bears a lot of responsibility for what went on leading up to our crashed economy. Now he wants to play parish politics and sort out a few lamp posts and pot holes to hang onto his seat. The sooner the better him and the other parish pump parasites are banished from our national parliament the better for the country as a whole. They're nothing but hired mercenaries who'll vote whichever way once they get their deals. Let him run as a county councillor if he wants to help out on local issues, although something tells me he'd be unwilling to take a pay cut.

tenner says the people of Galway west will re-elect him if he gets a deal from FF

Eliot Rosewater

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why do you view those perfectly logical statements as "irrational" ?

Because

• Fianna Fail are a political grouping, not farm animals.
• There is no evidence Brian Cowen you know whats.
• There is no evidence Bankers are there for the ****ing, as it were.

On a serious note, there are plenty of issues with which to criticize Fianna Fail on in a thoughtful way. A lot of the posts in the Politics forum seem to be of the "asterisks" nature and don't really contribute anything other than noise.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And if "irrationality" was indeed the "key to success"

I said "key to success here," ie: the Politics board.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

there isn't any much more appropriate word for bailing out a cesspit of a bank

Thats your opinion and, while you may be right, posting those kind of words on a message board does nothing to foster good debate or discussion. It ends up being a communal rant, which is not productive or in any way interesting.

Liam Byrne

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Thats your opinion and, while you may be right, posting those kind of words on a message board does nothing to foster good debate or discussion. It ends up being a communal rant, which is not productive or in any way interesting.

But I would say - again - that the word "irrational" doesn't apply......"irrational" means that you don't look at the facts in forming an opinion.

A bit like not reading a report on the state of a bank before agreeing to invest someone else's money in it, or paying more than something is worth.

If you want to use the word "unproductive" for the opinions on that (and the posts), then you might have a point; but "irrational" describes FF's initial actions, not the reactions to them.

Dannyboy83

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I wondered why no one had replied to this, and then I realized Het-Field left out the mandatory "FF are pigs," "Brian Cowen is a wanker" and "**** the bankers" to get the discussion going. Irrationality seems to be the key to success here.

Same topic here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055761244

The_Minister

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Yet another little man trying to save his skin, posturing for his constituents, pretending his outrage at FF led Government. The rats will hang on as there is more damage to be done to our economy and country, so deals will be done to ensure that the FF/Green debacle will survive

Eh, he isn't pretending to take a moral stance at all, he just wants stuff for his locality.
How abouts you actually read the article, there isn't anything there other than naked parochialism.

BlueLepreachaun

The_Minister wrote: »

Eh, he isn't pretending to take a moral stance at all, he just wants stuff for his locality.
How abouts you actually read the article, there isn't anything there other than naked parochialism.

Indeed, Grealish is well known for being a for sale whore of the highest order, the only one I know of who out-whored him was Parlon.
Biffo will stuf some local pork barrel money in his mouth and that will be the end of this.

Anyone who thinks the govts going to fall is doing to be dissapointed.

As a PD he bears a lot of responsibility for what went on leading up to our crashed economy

I head this a lot and it annoys me, because its just not accurate.
The economic policies of FF and the PDs were one in the same, in fact FG and Labour weren't proposing anything radically diffrent (though they did warn about over-reliance on property taxes)


If Irish people want someone to blame for the crash they can look at themselves for voting a TD back in because "ah sure Billys a good lad" rather than focusing on the policies Billy was blindly voting "Ta" to every week in the Dail.

Mr.Micro

The_Minister wrote: »

Eh, he isn't pretending to take a moral stance at all, he just wants stuff for his locality.
How abouts you actually read the article, there isn't anything there other than naked parochialism.

Where did I mention morals? Is there such a thing as morals with Politicians? Don't make me laugh. If he was so worried about his locality as you put it so so eloquently "stuff for his locality", why now and not long before this? His conscience got the better of him? I think you had better actually read between the lines.

BlueLepreachaun

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Where did I mention morals? Is there such a thing as morals with Politicians? Don't make me laugh. If he was so worried about his locality as you put it so so eloquently "stuff for his locality", why now and not long before this? His conscience got the better of him? I think you had better actually read between the lines.

Because he thinks theres an election close, and the local rabble will remember any pork he gets for them now more than anything else, he senses the writing on the wall and wants to be seen to take a stand for the local area.
It's the same reason TDs intentionally break the rules of the Dail and get themselves thrown out of the chamber on purpose, because they know it will get on the news and all the locals will remark at how hard he's fighting for them.
I've seen people admire this sorta thing many times in the past, people are idiots, easily fooled, Noel knows this, and he knows if he pushes the right buttons he'll ride a tide of idiot votes right back to the next Dail.

Mr.Micro

I agree entirely Blue Lepreachaun, and what an opportune time for the little man to do it.

Het-Field

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

Because he thinks theres an election close, and the local rabble will remember any pork he gets for them now more than anything else, he senses the writing on the wall and wants to be seen to take a stand for the local area.
It's the same reason TDs intentionally break the rules of the Dail and get themselves thrown out of the chamber on purpose, because they know it will get on the news and all the locals will remark at how hard he's fighting for them.
I've seen people admire this sorta thing many times in the past, people are idiots, easily fooled, Noel knows this, and he knows if he pushes the right buttons he'll ride a tide of idiot votes right back to the next Dail.

And Grealish is no idiot. He successfully engineered the demise of the PDs, to the benefit of his Galway West/Galway East Councellors. He knew it was a busted flush, and would be a major hindrance in he locals.

BlueLepreachaun

Ah now they were doomed long before him! Their vote share was declinging every election since their foundation, and they were personality based with no real grassroots organization.

The_Minister

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Where did I mention morals? Is there such a thing as morals with Politicians? Don't make me laugh. If he was so worried about his locality as you put it so so eloquently "stuff for his locality", why now and not long before this? His conscience got the better of him? I think you had better actually read between the lines.

No, but his leverage is higher than ever now. The upcoming vote means he can get more now than ever before. Even if an election wasn't close, now would be the time to act

Victor

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

with no real grassroots organization.

While this was indeed the PD's flaw and cost them dearly in elections, surely as TDs their job was to run the country, not to pander to the grassroots?

galwayrush

Claregalway by pass at last perhaps?