Western Rail Corridor Thread - Greatest Hits.

westtip

Lads, Thought it might be an idea to resurect your very own greatest hits list from the thread we knew so well

The opening and quite innocent post came from a chap called Sligoliner - so firstly congrats to Sligoliner for creating what was over the years to become a legend of commentary not only on one of the greatest pieces of transport planning stupidity (IMO!), but also a general debate on some of the greater issues facing transport and commutting planning here in Ireland.

Well done SligoLiner - I am sure you had no idea just what you had created:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=930333&postcount=1

Born on 29th May 2003, at 11.07 a.m the thread very quickly went off subject - and nothing was said

With a debate in the first few pages about more generalities of rail use.

Ismael Whale introduced an article from the independent in this post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1431883&postcount=38 in which the whole credibility of the scheme was bought into quuesiton -

The thread was beginning to pick up on a general trend - WTF was this project all about good commuting transport planning, parish pump politics, the usual poor wesht stuff.

Questions were begining to be asked on Boards.ie - Why is this happening.

So folks trawl the thread and start to post links to your favourite posts - Lets think of it as an exercise in remembering an old friend at a wake...

Link to the opening post - to save you trawling as our friend sinks further without trace each day can be found at the link above

DWCommuter

This one from P11Comms (not me) on 5/4/04 - the beauty that got it all rolling!

Platform11 has withdrawn its support for the reopening of the entire Western Rail Corridor in favour of what we believe are more intelligent and deserving schemes around the country including Interconnector, Metro, Athlone-Mullingar, Dublin-Navan and Cork-Midleton. There is a heated and interesting exchange on our message board if any body would be interesting in coming over and adding their two cents.

cheers:

www.platform11.org

And this one from Ishmael Whale on the same date.

Platform 11 are to be congratulated on their responsible approach to the WRC. Too many lobby groups just blindly advocate any and all positions connected to their cause, however impractical. Clearly rail development should take place on the basis of where we see the greatest need.

Group opposed to Sligo rail network
Posted on April 6, 2004 at 06:43:55 AM by P11 Comms

Group opposed to Sligo rail network
Chris Ashmore - Irish Times

The national rail transport pressure group, Platform 11, is opposing the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor (WRC) linking Sligo with Galway and Limerick.

The group maintains that the estimated €300 million it would cost to reopen and upgrade the link along a mostly disused line could be better spent on other rail projects, such as the Cork-Midleton, Dublin-Navan and Athlone-Mullingar lines.

The group's spokesman, Mr Derek Wheeler, said €300 million would go a long way towards securing the future of existing regional rail routes such as the Limerick-Waterford line.

Mr Wheeler said that Dublin remained the only capital city in the EU still without a rail link of any kind to its airport.

Platform 11, he added, did not believe that the WRC would deliver value for money to Irish taxpayers. "Rail transport in the west of Ireland would benefit more from increasing the frequency of current services into the region, which would, by default, also create viable commuter services in the west and midlands."

He said there was no major population centre north of Tuam which was not currently served by rail.

Regarding road-traffic congestion, which may justify a WRC rail commuter service, he maintained that this currently exists only between Tuam and Galway city.

However, a spokesman for the West on Track campaign expressed surprise at the Platform 11 position.
He pointed out that the campaign to reopen the route was supported by three regional authorities and local-development and tourism groups.

From MG on the 10/11/04 - a real classic!

P11’s main problem has always been its communications and we have another example of it here in the wording of this question. It is neither the most important issue in rail nor a joke, but it is a hugely important issue for having an integrated rail network. P11 are always at their best when they keep their opinions to themselves and present the facts. The strange things is that after the amateurish PR and constant U turning when withdrawing their support for the WRC, they did finally present a very good plan for the WRC (praise where praise is due). Why they don’t actually support this plan is beyond me.

It seems to me that any lobby group worth their salt would have put their campaign in this context: Support the Interconnector as the value for money solution to Dublins problems and with the savings we can pay for the WRC as well. Then put the pressure on IE to have sensible timetables and an excellent service. That keeps everyone happy. Unfortunately, they have alienated the West (& south) with their campaign which gives the impression that the WRC and solving Dublins problems are mutually exclusive goals, an either/or scenario. Now, no one supporting the WRC would touch P11 with a bargepole.

P11, please stop campaigning for less and start campaigning for more.

Preceeded by this from Crossley (an loco engine name and definate trainspotter)

Agreed. It's a very strange rail lobby that spends more time advocating rail closures and service withdrawals and rubbishing non-GDA expansion plans than it does promoting existing or new services.

Cannot ever recall doing that when I was in P11.

And this piece of dynamite from an actual mod of this forum (Enterprise - name of a train service and probable trainspotter) in response to MGs attack on the P11 stance.

Anybody with sense wouldn't touch Platform 11 with a bargepole. To call themselves a "national rail lobby group" is a joke and actually false advertising!

And more bile from the heart of the same mod and trainspotter. Where is the poor thing now!

Another example showing how two faced Platform 11 are.

At this point in the thread it had degenerated into an attack on P11. Was it moderated? Eh no. Classic C&T tactics.:D

Westy you have opened a can of lovely worms that I'm happy to use as bait. Congrats!

dermo88

I'm going to have fun later ripping the balls off Irishrailwaynews, its members and its moderators. Because they are worth it. Because I have been itching at the trigger to expose them for the farce that they are. Because its Christmas time, and there is every need to be afraid, very afraid, and its time to bury the hatchet.

Where it belongs.

In Alan Helfners words.

westtip

I think this one was a good one from MarkoP11 in 2005 in response to a question from Nollaig: written on 27th April 2006, the thread was approaching its third birthday, most of the debate at that stage focussed on the futility of the project.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51279974&postcount=625

Originally Posted by nollaig
Marko, Are you in favour of any of the line being re-opened?

Athenry Ennis since there is a business case, it supports commuter services in Limerick and Galway and forms a regional link between two cities and its reasonably good value for the distance. This section is the only one to actually be formally recommended for reopening

Tuam Athenry is suspect and might be justified but beyond Tuam is just to keep the sheep entertained unless Mayo CC abandons its once off housing free for all and takes a leaf out of Corks book

The one thing that most people would like to see is a formal independent cost benefit analysis (as the Department of Finance will seek) to show once and for all the true costs (track only is quoted, not stations, trains etc) and the benefits that accrue

Value for money is needed not an monument, rail only really works on high density well planned development and that is certainly not Mayo. It must be remembered the line closed because there where no passengers and with the nice upgraded road going in the bus will be faster, cheaper and serve a greater area of population

Instead of seaking votes the money should be spent on where it can really make a difference, Galway Oranmore, more track more stations. Limerick Raheen, Nenagh etc. The worst thing that could be done is to build a line that will end up like Limerick Waterford where heaps of money will have to be spent propping it up for decades. Passenger numbers Limerick Junc Waterford are single digits despite a increase in frequency and Clonmel has a population of 16,000+

DWCommuter

westtip wrote: »

I think this one was a good one from MarkoP11 in 2005 in response to a question from Nollaig: written on 27th April 2006, the thread was approaching its third birthday, most of the debate at that stage focussed on the futility of the project.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51279974&postcount=625

Originally Posted by nollaig
Marko, Are you in favour of any of the line being re-opened?

Athenry Ennis since there is a business case, it supports commuter services in Limerick and Galway and forms a regional link between two cities and its reasonably good value for the distance. This section is the only one to actually be formally recommended for reopening

Tuam Athenry is suspect and might be justified but beyond Tuam is just to keep the sheep entertained unless Mayo CC abandons its once off housing free for all and takes a leaf out of Corks book

The one thing that most people would like to see is a formal independent cost benefit analysis (as the Department of Finance will seek) to show once and for all the true costs (track only is quoted, not stations, trains etc) and the benefits that accrue

Value for money is needed not an monument, rail only really works on high density well planned development and that is certainly not Mayo. It must be remembered the line closed because there where no passengers and with the nice upgraded road going in the bus will be faster, cheaper and serve a greater area of population

Instead of seaking votes the money should be spent on where it can really make a difference, Galway Oranmore, more track more stations. Limerick Raheen, Nenagh etc. The worst thing that could be done is to build a line that will end up like Limerick Waterford where heaps of money will have to be spent propping it up for decades. Passenger numbers Limerick Junc Waterford are single digits despite a increase in frequency and Clonmel has a population of 16,000+

Doubt he cares (wasnt worth caring about) as that response was the standard P11 one at the time. Personally, I don't think any of it should have reopened.

corktina

dermo88 wrote: »

I'm going to have fun later ripping the balls off Irishrailwaynews, its members and its moderators. Because they are worth it. Because I have been itching at the trigger to expose them for the farce that they are. Because its Christmas time, and there is every need to be afraid, very afraid, and its time to bury the hatchet.

Where it belongs.

In Alan Helfners words.

is there any proof they actually have balls?

westtip

DWCommuter wrote: »

Doubt he cares (wasnt worth caring about) as that response was the standard P11 one at the time. Personally, I don't think any of it should have reopened.

Derek, yes my views too but it is amazing to look back in that thread and what was been written back in 2003, 04, 05 and 06 and all of it still relevant -as a record of the thought process on the WRC it makes fascinating reading and you think those of us analysing the reality of this project were writing our views in boom times....we were the ones Bertie called the doom mongers.

Must trawl for a few more nuggets of the debate later on today.

dermo88

No corktina, I have seen transvestites on the Chow Kit Road with more balls, and you would'nt want to confront them. But just for your pleasure, a wee gem from 2006.

Transylvania on Track. Featuring the classic prayer to Todd Andrews. Its repetition, subsequently, on IRN finally got me banned, and I have been a happier man since.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055085688&highlight=Transylvania+track.

Transport21fan was the starter of the thread.

"Our Todd, who art in Heuston, hallowed be thine name
Thine branch lines gone, enthusiasts moan
In Ireland as it is in Britain
Give us this day our daily train
And deliver us from Beeching
And lead us into Phoenix Park
But deliver us not from Cravens"

Altogether now.......let us pray.

"You believe in Branch lines, carrying next to nothing
You believe in Maedhbh, the greatest of steam engines
Born of a broke nation, she arose through the gullet
Crucified with Turf, and buried under Bulleid
A Metrovick replaced thee and did Dublin to Cork in 2 1/2 hours
She spoke through EMB, and replaced by a 201
Scrapped in Hammond Lane and turned to useful razorblades
We believe in Multiple Units
High Speed Trains
The Metro
The Interconnector
Buses that link with trains
Integrated Transport, and the end of CIE.

Amen.

Deliver us Todd from CIE, and in your spirit, Slipthru and the ILDA. Grant us rail to Navan in our time, and peace from breakdowns on the Enterprise in your day. In your mercy, keep us free of Baby GM's and Cravens, and keep 2900's off Intercity. May the Rotems be utterly reliable on test and last 40 years.

We ask this through Transport21,

Amen.

In hindsight, this was all written back in May 2007. We knew there was an economic downturn coming, but not to the depths it is now.

However, we were mislead, and sadly, I was one of them, to be man, means putting up my hands and saying "I was wrong"

VOTE LABOUR – If you want to Replace the Luas and Metro with Buses Stuck in Gridlock in Order to Indulge the CIE Unions

VOTE FINE GAEL – If you want the Interconnector Scrapped and the Western Rail Corridor Completed in Order to Indulge the Mayo Enclave

Vote Either Fianna Fail, Greens or PDs if you want to save Transport 21
(brought to you by the good folks of Transport 21 Fan - Have a Nice Day!)

Other classics are the irrepressible "Sing us a song of the crayon man", the one and only.....Brian Guckian.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055576033&page=6&highlight=Transylvania+track

Brian is not the messiah, hes a very naughty boy. As for giving him publicity, or commenting, there is no choice. I think he is AA Roadwatch's best friend, simply because the levels of motor taxation required to support these projects would be unpopular.

Brian is 50 years behind the times, or 50 years ahead, but nowhere in between. Brian Guckian should consequently be proudly sponsored by the Motor Industry of Ireland and AA Roadwatch.