Darron Gibson - "the new Scholes"?

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Boggles, were Utd dominated by Wolfsburg last night?

No.

Mr Alan wrote: »

did the result flatter Utd?

No.

As advised Al. STOP....

Headshot

alan go to spec savers

Im not gibson's biggest fan but even i can admit he had a good game

Ush1

Unbiased here and admittedly was flicking between this game and the Bayern Juve one. It looked like United dominated for long periods in the first half, then Wolfsburg in the 2nd. Wolfsburg looked far less threatening in possession I thought though, just didn't have that cutting edge really despite all the hype round Dzeko and Grafite.

All in all considered, United done well away from home with a mental back line. Gibson worked hard without being outstanding.

PHB

Boggles wrote: »

So?

All that proves is your both wrong.

Gibson was decent last night.

Absolutely. All it proves is you both utterly missed the game last night. I've been fairly sceptical of Gibson as a United player personally, and his first two games while the goals have been impressive, the rest has been by in large poor imo.

Gibson was better last night for United imo than he has been in any of the games so far. It was his best game. Goals are great and all, but they are only a part of the game. Passing and Tackling is at the core of what a midfielder does and Gibson was excellent at it. His passing was fantastic, 3 beautiful 40 yard balls to a winger in space. Outstanding pass made to Nani on the ground about 20 yards, when Nani was like 5 feet away from his defender. Great link up play with Scholes with a driving run creating space for the pass. And most importantly, great small little passes to maintain possession, especially in the first half.
Beyond that, he tracked back and got stuck in a lot, which was very important, especially with Scholes in the team. This was best evidenced by his end of game tracking back stopping a certain equaliser goal.

In conclusion, it's just utterly stupid to claim that Gibson played poor last night. It was probably his best game in a United shirt. But because he doesn't score 30 yard screamers nobody takes notice, watching him in the highlights reel is just silly. His game last night was solid, composed, and did the job of a central midfielder at a level that United beat the German Champions 3-1, while playing with the most attacking central midfielder in the squad, in front of a back 4 that included 3 midfielders.

kida

PHB wrote: »

Absolutely. All it proves is you both utterly missed the game last night. I've been fairly sceptical of Gibson as a United player personally, and his first two games while the goals have been impressive, the rest has been by in large poor imo.

Gibson was better last night for United imo than he has been in any of the games so far. It was his best game. Goals are great and all, but they are only a part of the game. Passing and Tackling is at the core of what a midfielder does and Gibson was excellent at it. His passing was fantastic, 3 beautiful 40 yard balls to a winger in space. Outstanding pass made to Nani on the ground about 20 yards, when Nani was like 5 feet away from his defender. Great link up play with Scholes with a driving run creating space for the pass. And most importantly, great small little passes to maintain possession, especially in the first half.
Beyond that, he tracked back and got stuck in a lot, which was very important, especially with Scholes in the team. This was best evidenced by his end of game tracking back stopping a certain equaliser goal.

In conclusion, it's just utterly stupid to claim that Gibson played poor last night. It was probably his best game in a United shirt. But because he doesn't score 30 yard screamers nobody takes notice, watching him in the highlights reel is just silly. His game last night was solid, composed, and did the job of a central midfielder at a level that United beat the German Champions 3-1, while playing with the most attacking central midfielder in the squad, in front of a back 4 that included 3 midfielders.

well said - in fairness it was proably better than you could expect someone playing their 20th game to be.

Dont be at yourself

Gibson is the new Lucas.

Maligned by rival fans, defended to the hilt by his own.

kida

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Gibson is the new Lucas.

Maligned by rival fans, defended to the hilt by his own.

don't be so hard on him

Mitch Connor

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Gibson is the new Lucas.

Maligned by rival fans, defended to the hilt by his own.

I disagree. He deserves to be defended from people bashing last nights performance - easily his best performance for United. That doesn't mean, and has not meant that United fans have defended him blindly. We have given out about aspects of his game, such as his passing and tackling, general mobility, as much as anyone else (all aspects of his game that were much improved last night)

I have been one of his biggest critics, but i'll give him credit where it is due, and it is certainly due for his performance last night.

Dont be at yourself

Mitch Connor wrote:

I disagree. He deserves to be defended from people bashing last nights performance - easily his best performance for United. That doesn't mean, and has not meant that United fans have defended him blindly. We have given out about aspects of his game, such as his passing and tackling, general mobility, as much as anyone else (all aspects of his game that were much improved last night)

I have been one of his biggest critics, but i'll give him credit where it is due, and it is certainly due for his performance last night.

I know. But the above post reads almost exactly like a post about Lucas by Mr. Alan and company.

United fans feel obliged to defend him when he comes in for unfair criticism, and then the notion propagates that they think he's the best midfielder in the world, which further fuels the criticism.

Otacon

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

United fans feel obliged to defend him when he comes in for unfair criticism.

Shouldn't any football fan do the same!?

eagle eye

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Gibson is the new Lucas.

Maligned by rival fans, defended to the hilt by his own.

Eh Lucas got booed by his own fans iirc. I'm not a Liverpool fan but I think he is decent. Deffo better than Gibson.

cournioni

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Gibson is the new Lucas.

Maligned by rival fans, defended to the hilt by his own.

Lucas has played far more games and thus has more experience in the first team. Gibson is only breaking into the first team now, once he has more experience we will be better judges of the lads talent. You cannot compare the two. But so far Gibson looks good.

kida

eagle eye wrote: »

Eh Lucas got booed by his own fans iirc. I'm not a Liverpool fan but I think he is decent. Deffo better than Gibson.

not comparable - come back when Gibson gets the same extended run in the team. He has shown he can do 2 things that Lucas canno though - score and ping long range passses so not sure you can ever compare them as obviously way different players

eagle eye

kida wrote: »

not comparable - come back when Gibson gets the same extended run in the team. He has shown he can do 2 things that Lucas canno though - score and ping long range passses so not sure you can ever compare them as obviously way different players

At this time Lucas is a better player, I didn't say that Gibson has no chance of becoming a top player but I doubt it tbh. I can't see him ever getting an extended run in the United team for a start.

Mars Bar

The Setanta Sports Commentary Award for not knowing what he is talking about shall go to...

wait for it...

Mr. Alan!

I said it last night and I'll say it again, Gibson could thread the ball through the eye of a needle. If you know anything about football, you know that what you do off the ball is as important as what you do on the ball. He tracked back and stopped an almost certain equaliser in our own 6 yard box. Definitely his best game in a red shirt yet...

UnitedIrishman

PHB wrote: »

Absolutely. All it proves is you both utterly missed the game last night. I've been fairly sceptical of Gibson as a United player personally, and his first two games while the goals have been impressive, the rest has been by in large poor imo.

Gibson was better last night for United imo than he has been in any of the games so far. It was his best game. Goals are great and all, but they are only a part of the game. Passing and Tackling is at the core of what a midfielder does and Gibson was excellent at it. His passing was fantastic, 3 beautiful 40 yard balls to a winger in space. Outstanding pass made to Nani on the ground about 20 yards, when Nani was like 5 feet away from his defender. Great link up play with Scholes with a driving run creating space for the pass. And most importantly, great small little passes to maintain possession, especially in the first half.
Beyond that, he tracked back and got stuck in a lot, which was very important, especially with Scholes in the team. This was best evidenced by his end of game tracking back stopping a certain equaliser goal.

In conclusion, it's just utterly stupid to claim that Gibson played poor last night. It was probably his best game in a United shirt. But because he doesn't score 30 yard screamers nobody takes notice, watching him in the highlights reel is just silly. His game last night was solid, composed, and did the job of a central midfielder at a level that United beat the German Champions 3-1, while playing with the most attacking central midfielder in the squad, in front of a back 4 that included 3 midfielders.

What he said.

Some of his passes last night were superb. His work-rate was decent. About the only two faults I could find in him are that he finds himself surrounded at times by getting himself into a poor position and that he lacks that bit of sharpness at the top level - but that will come with time.

Definitely his best game thus far and hopefully he'll keep improving.

He's looks like more of Lampard-style player (I'm not in anyway comparing the two - just their style - Lampard is a million lightyears ahead at the minute) in that he doesn't control the tempo of a game like Scholes but creates more higher up the field.

therokerroar

He'll be a Coca-Cola Championship plodder in 5 years time.

He'll end up at a side like Watford or Reading, he's not that good at all IMO, he has a decent strike on him but that's about it.

I wouldn't have him anywhere near Scholes' ability, when Scholes was Gibson's age he was a permanent fixture in the Manchester United side.

eagle eye

mars bar wrote: »

The Setanta Sports Commentary Award for not knowing what he is talking about shall go to...

wait for it...

Mr. Alan!

I said it last night and I'll say it again, Gibson could thread the ball through the eye of a needle. If you know anything about football, you know that what you do off the ball is as important as what you do on the ball. He tracked back and stopped an almost certain equaliser in our own 6 yard box. Definitely his best game in a red shirt yet...

I love when people use this to support their argument.:rolleyes:

~Rebel~

I think Gibson's Ireland appearances have somewhat gone against him, in terms of public perception. Being an international automatically changes peoples view of him and raises expectation.

IMO had he not had those appearances and had instead remained a player who, until recently, was only really known to ManU fans, I think we'd all be looking at him as a very good prospect who has shown glimpses of each facet required to be a good midfield player and who just needs to put it altogether to make a proper breakthrough.

Having said that I'm not sure how confident I am he'll make it to being united regular standard, but I do think he definitely has it in him to be a premier league regular for someone decent, with a bit more experience.

If I were Ferguson, I'd be looking to loan him out for the second half of the season to get him plenty of much needed first team football so he can really start finding his feet.

Mars Bar

eagle eye wrote: »

I love when people use this to support their argument.:rolleyes:

Enlighten me please as to how else I should have put it...

dRNk SAnTA

I'm a United fan and thought last night was by far his best performance so far.

It's ridiculous to be talking him up or talking him down yet. He's young and he's only 3 games into his first ever run in the united team.

I thought he showed more confidence on the pitch last night, it was a massive improvement by him. Forget his shooting ability because that will have nothing to do with whether he makes it or not, but last night he looked like a good player - and putting my GREEN tinted glasses on for a moment, the way he's currently developing could be a real boost for Ireland's next qualifying campaign.

Sort of looks like some on here want him to fail.

Liam O

therokerroar wrote: »

He'll be a Coca-Cola Championship plodder in 5 years time.

He'll end up at a side like Watford or Reading, he's not that good at all IMO, he has a decent strike on him but that's about it.

I wouldn't have him anywhere near Scholes' ability, when Scholes was Gibson's age he was a permanent fixture in the Manchester United side.

Scholes didn't become a permanent fixture in United's team until he was older than Gibbo is now. Maybe look at the facts before making statements like that next time :rolleyes: There was also a lot less competition when Scholes broke through. You say 'he's not that good at all' can you give us examples of the games that you've watched him in that prove this?

Smegball

I thought Gibson was very good last night, sprayed some beautiful cross field balls, tracked back to make some excellent tackles also, including clearing the ball which ended up giving Owen his hat trick

Gibson reminds me of Fletcher from around the same age although Gibson has one thing over the Fletcher of then, which is a tremendous shot.

If he develops well he could become a fixture in our midfield over the next few years, Fergie obviously believes in him and I think we should trust his judgement.

Athough atm the comparison with Scholes seems ridiculous, different kind of midfielders imo, a comparison with Lampard seems more apt.

Kirby

While I can see the "likes a shot from outside the box" similarities, Lampard has much better feet. Gibson has that kind of Carrick Clumsiness when he is in possession.

Having said that, he has potential. He can shoot and can pass. As long as he keeps showing for the ball and not hiding, he could turn into a very good player.

eagle eye

Liam O wrote: »

Scholes didn't become a permanent fixture in United's team until he was older than Gibbo is now. Maybe look at the facts before making statements like that next time :rolleyes: There was also a lot less competition when Scholes broke through. You say 'he's not that good at all' can you give us examples of the games that you've watched him in that prove this?

Maybe you should check your facts, Scholes was a regular fixture in the United team late in 94/95 and was a starter in 95/96 at 21 years of age. He was 23 when he became a permanent fixture in midfield, he played up front before that.

Gibson is 22.

PHB

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

I know. But the above post reads almost exactly like a post about Lucas by Mr. Alan and company.

United fans feel obliged to defend him when he comes in for unfair criticism, and then the notion propagates that they think he's the best midfielder in the world, which further fuels the criticism.

I may have missed it, but I can't see any United fan suggesting he's top class, or suggesting he's actually in Scholes league yet, or anything of the sort.
I've seen United fans say he's got real potential because of his shooting. I've seen United fans, such as myself, be wary of judging him on goals alone, be who were impressed by last night in terms of passing. And I've seen some United fans right him off.

Infact, throughout this thread, lots of United fans have been very careful with their words, so as to not imply that they think he's the next amazing thing. Just that he's doing well, and let's hope he can continue and push on.

TonyD79

Xavi6 wrote: »

Indeed, just like that William Prunier fella

Prunier played 1 / 2 games while on trial and was never signed!! Hardly bad judgement.

Now selling Richard Dunne and keeping Lescot and Toure is !!!!!!

Dont be at yourself

PHB wrote: »

I may have missed it, but I can't see any United fan suggesting he's top class, or suggesting he's actually in Scholes league yet, or anything of the sort.
I've seen United fans say he's got real potential because of his shooting. I've seen United fans, such as myself, be wary of judging him on goals alone, be who were impressed by last night in terms of passing. And I've seen some United fans right him off.

Infact, throughout this thread, lots of United fans have been very careful with their words, so as to not imply that they think he's the next amazing thing. Just that he's doing well, and let's hope he can continue and push on.

Read my post again.

My point is that because Man Utd fans defend him from unfair criticism, it gives the impression that they all rate him highly - even though they're not raving about him. It's the exact same with Lucas. People think Liverpool fans rate him highly, but by in large they're just responding to over the top criticism.

therokerroar

Liam O wrote: »

Scholes didn't become a permanent fixture in United's team until he was older than Gibbo is now. Maybe look at the facts before making statements like that next time :rolleyes: There was also a lot less competition when Scholes broke through. You say 'he's not that good at all' can you give us examples of the games that you've watched him in that prove this?

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but a simple search for 'Paul Scholes Statistcs' will lead you to http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/profile?id=8860&cc=5739 which is a very reliable source for statistics on footballers, they state:

He made his League debut against Ipswich Town on September 24, 1994, scoring twice in a 3-2 defeat. Scholes became a regular player during the 1994-95 term as Alex Ferguson blooded his 'fledglings' as United made a failed bid for the Double.

So that would have made Scholes 20 years of age, 21 during the season as his birthday is in November, when he became 'a regular player'.

Gibson is now 22 and I certainly wouldn't call him 'a regular player'.

May I suggest that you actually look at the facts mate :rolleyes:

flahavaj

therokerroar wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but a simple search for 'Paul Scholes Statistcs' will lead you to http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/profile?id=8860&cc=5739 which is a very reliable source for statistics on footballers, they state:



So that would have made Scholes 20 years of age when he became 'a regular player'. Gibson is now 22.

May I suggest that you actually look at the facts mate :rolleyes:

He wasn't a regular player in 1994/5. Butt and Keane were first choice centre midfielders, Scholes was seen as a second striker in those days but Cantona was obviously ahead of him in that department.

Scholes also had a few medical problems around this age, I think it was asthma he had, and he used top struggle to complete 90 minutes of a match. There were genuine worries he wouldn't make it as a top class footballer for a while because of it. He only really nailed down a proper first team regular place a couple of years later.

Ush1

PHB wrote: »

I may have missed it, but I can't see any United fan suggesting he's top class, or suggesting he's actually in Scholes league yet, or anything of the sort.
I've seen United fans say he's got real potential because of his shooting. I've seen United fans, such as myself, be wary of judging him on goals alone, be who were impressed by last night in terms of passing. And I've seen some United fans right him off.

Infact, throughout this thread, lots of United fans have been very careful with their words, so as to not imply that they think he's the next amazing thing. Just that he's doing well, and let's hope he can continue and push on.

I beg to differ, someone above said he can thread a ball "through the eye of a needle" no less. United fans are often hype machines. He's done okay, but don't get carried away, he's not quite Xavi or Pirlo just yet.:)

therokerroar

flahavaj wrote: »

He wasn't a regular player in 1994/5. Butt and Keane were first choice centre midfielders, Scholes was seen as a second striker in those days but Cantona was obviously ahead of him in that department.

He played 25 games that season, which is much more than Gibson managed at that age, and in fact much more than Gibson will manage in an injury hit Manchester United side this season.

25 games isn't a bad return for someone you claim 'wasn't a regular player'.

flahavaj

therokerroar wrote: »

He played 25 games that season, which is much more than Gibson managed at that age, and in fact much more than Gibson will manage in an injury hit Manchester United side this season.

25 games isn't a bad return for someone you claim 'wasn't a regular player'.

He wasn't first choice. As I said he had medical issues that meant he wouldn't be first choice for a few years yet.

Thats all, fundamentally I don't disagree with your point.

Boggles

therokerroar wrote: »

He played 25 games that season, which is much more than Gibson managed at that age, and in fact much more than Gibson will manage in an injury hit Manchester United side this season.

25 games isn't a bad return for someone you claim 'wasn't a regular player'.

Scholes only started 6 league games in his first season.

Mars Bar

Ush1 wrote: »

I beg to differ, someone above said he can thread a ball "through the eye of a needle" no less. United fans are often hype machines. He's done okay, but don't get carried away, he's not quite Xavi or Pirlo just yet.:)

That would have been me. It was clear to see from the match last night that he can really pick out a good pass. Some of those long passes he had were spot on, ones I wouldn't have even thought doable. Does that mean that I think he is going to be a Xavi or a Pirlo in regards to being a great, great all round footballer? No. Absolutely essential to a team? No. He will never be a great, but he will do okay. Perhaps better in a mid table team...

Can I see him having a long career at United? If he wants to play football week in, week out, then no.

Liam O

therokerroar wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong now, but a simple search for 'Paul Scholes Statistcs' will lead you to http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/profile?id=8860&cc=5739 which is a very reliable source for statistics on footballers, they state:



So that would have made Scholes 20 years of age, 21 during the season as his birthday is in November, when he became 'a regular player'.

Gibson is now 22 and I certainly wouldn't call him 'a regular player'.

May I suggest that you actually look at the facts mate :rolleyes:

Yeah but if you read your OP you will see that you said 'a permanent fixture' and 25 games (most of them were sub appearances) doesn't indicate 'permanent' to me. Bit part player is the best you could convince me of.