Socail Welfare Budget Cut Protest

Lunar_Wire

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Count Dooku

September 2009

ntlbell

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

We can't afford it anymore.

you didn't cause the mess.

we can't afford it anymore

you didn't get large loans

we can't afford it anymore

you didn't purchaase houses

we can't afford it anymore.

cson

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Maybe you didn't but the Government have decided to socialise debt through NAMA thus you don't have a say in it and as such you suffer along with everyone else. And tbh Social Welfare levels in this country are a disincentive to find work imo. There ~20% inflated in my own opinion and with the cost of living down by around 6% I personally reckon welfare should be capped at €150.

Dannyboy83

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Am I correct in assuming by your statement that you've been on social welfare for a long time?
If so, would you mind disclosing why?

NinjaTruncs

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Not having a job and relying on tax payers was irresponsible.

*i'm assuming from your post you're a long term benefit claimer.

Kensington

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

There is no other option to cutting social welfare. The money simply is not there. It doesn't matter if Fianna Fáil were booted out tomorrow morning, the new government would still be left with the fact the money to continue paying social welfare at current levels simply is not there.

The_Honeybadger

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

People get very worked up about banks & developers and so on but you must realise the fact that we are spending 400 million a week more than we take in is not because of banks & developers but because we have a low tax and high cost economy. Over half of all workers pay no tax at all, we have one of the most generous social welfare systems in the world, one of the highest paid and wasteful public services in the world, universal CB, I could go on but you get the picture. Much of this was put in place to buy votes in elections and is clearly unsustainable, add to this the fact that are now far fewer taxpayers and it really is a daunting situation. Until politics becomes about policy and not popularity we will not be able to sort our problems out. I cant think of any other country that has the freebies we get here, people want services but dont want to pay for them. Banks and developers behaved despicably but we cannot blame them for our current budget deficit, and we must realise that the party is over and we are all going to be worse off for it.

dsmythy

The dole was 185 a mere 3 years ago. Take it back to that amount i say.

Tipsy Mac

The UK rate is £70.35 (€77.93) per week, we are nearly 3 times this, no way can such rates continue.

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/stellent/groups/jcp/documents/websitecontent/dev_015666.pdf

alphapa

i have to say there are 2 sides to this, i found myself unemployed for the first time in years in the last few months and with a 6mth old baby and a girlfriend to support along with all my own bills and rent etc social welfare comes nowhere near what i can live on, so i went out and applied for every job imaginable and eventually got a partime min wage job that guaranteed at least 15 hrs a week so i signed up for x and os so in my first weeks it cost me money to work!!!!! but i got half welfare for the 2 weeks eventually!! but the system is stupid they use if u work 3 days(no matter what the hours u get half if u work a 4th u get nuthin last week i done 5 days(not wanting to rock the boat as i had just started and it was 32hrs so i worked nearly a whole week for 80euro so when u look at it in relation to the min wage the welfare is grossly high! but i think they should leave it at that rate for people that arent longterm unemployed that have paid taxes for years and found themselves out of work but really target the long term unemployed with no intention of finding work as they are getting so many benefits that it would not be worth there while to work! and i know loads of fellas in that boat! as for me i hav no problem working for my money even if it means im doin it for a extra 50 quid at least i feel i earned it and dont have that poxy government looking down on me!!!!!

rant over!

meoklmrk91

Is as simple as this we are living in an arse backwards country, we were the first to go into recession in the economic downturn and considering our global position we are probably the worst off.

While every other country in the world is spending their way out the recession Cowen and co. insist on making cuts, which means in IMO this will be a much harder and longer recession.

The lack of creativity in our Government is astounding. We could be spending money building hospitals, schools and roads and actually use Irish workers instead of bringing in foreign company's to do the job, less people would be sitting at home on the dole and they would have more money to spend which would undoubtedly good for the economy and the country.

In Germany instead of having people sit at home on the dole they have a program where they are supplementing employees pay packet so their employers don't have to fire them.

Why are people who are on the dole sitting at home anyway, why aren't they on courses, or back in college, learning skills that will help them get a job in the future. Because Cowen and co. refuse to invest in education, how can we expect to compete on Global scale if we don't have a well educated people.

Quite frankly I think that cutting social welfare payments is disgusting, the money that people are expected to live on is downright disgraceful as is. I think you can tell a lot about a state on how they treat their dependents [disabled, elderly, children, those who can't find a job etc.], the way Brian Cowen and the rest of the government is treating our dependents is despicable and the lack of outrage is frightening.

Lunar_Wire

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Not having a job and relying on tax payers was irresponsible.

Was it? Oh well.
Perhaps I shouldn't have taken the government to court as part of my responsibility to society, leaving myself liable to being millions of euros of debt.
Do you mean that I didn't pay for the taxes that pay for the politians and banking regulators? Or the taxes that have not built schools or funded hospitals?
Your right, I should have worked and got a huge mortgage and bought property in Bulgeria.

Maebh

mickeyk wrote: »

we have one of the most generous social welfare systems in the world

How would you say our social welfare system is "generous"?

Personally, I think that paying everyone the same amount regardless of the earnings you had previously or the time you have spent working in the country is exceptionally unfair. Certainly, I would say that France's system, which takes both of these things into account and pays a % of your previous income is far more generous.

However, the attitude that social welfare is "generous" at all is mistaken, in my view. Mature and equal societies have it so that if you become unemployed you don't starve or go homeless. Is that really such a generous view?

Lunar_Wire

Kensington wrote: »

There is no other option to cutting social welfare. The money simply is not there. It doesn't matter if Fianna Fáil were booted out tomorrow morning, the new government would still be left with the fact the money to continue paying social welfare at current levels simply is not there.

I fully accept that welfare be cut, but on the condition that the government go.

mikemac

A protest will do very little.
The pensioners protest was well organized and very effective.

I realy doubt a comparable protest could be organized by the unemployed. And if it's decided it's in Dublin aren't the Galway/Sligo/Letterkenny etc protesters supposed to be out job hunting?

jhegarty

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Was it? Oh well.
Perhaps I shouldn't have taken the government to court as part of my responsibility to society, leaving myself liable to being millions of euros of debt.

There was also the option of getting a job.

Lunar_Wire

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

In Germany instead of having people sit at home on the dole they have a program where they are supplementing employees pay packet so their employers don't have to fire them.
Why are people who are on the dole sitting at home anyway

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

ntlbell

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

5% reduction won't make much of a difference so.

call off the protests!

meoklmrk91

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

Hey your preaching to the choir I am attending a Youth Reach to get my LCA.

Kristopherus

alphapa wrote: »

i have to say there are 2 sides to this, i found myself unemployed for the first time in years in the last few months and with a 6mth old baby and a girlfriend to support along with all my own bills and rent etc social welfare comes nowhere near what i can live on, so i went out and applied for every job imaginable and eventually got a partime min wage job that guaranteed at least 15 hrs a week so i signed up for x and os so in my first weeks it cost me money to work!!!!! but i got half welfare for the 2 weeks eventually!! but the system is stupid they use if u work 3 days(no matter what the hours u get half if u work a 4th u get nuthin last week i done 5 days(not wanting to rock the boat as i had just started and it was 32hrs so i worked nearly a whole week for 80euro so when u look at it in relation to the min wage the welfare is grossly high! but i think they should leave it at that rate for people that arent longterm unemployed that have paid taxes for years and found themselves out of work but really target the long term unemployed with no intention of finding work as they are getting so many benefits that it would not be worth there while to work! and i know loads of fellas in that boat! as for me i hav no problem working for my money even if it means im doin it for a extra 50 quid at least i feel i earned it and dont have that poxy government looking down on me!!!!!

rant over!

Be thankful you,re not paying tax on those earnings as well !!!

alphapa

Kristopherus wrote: »

Be thankful you,re not paying tax on those earnings as well !!!

not till next week prob!!!!!!!!!

The_Honeybadger

Maebh wrote: »

How would you say our social welfare system is "generous"?

Personally, I think that paying everyone the same amount regardless of the earnings you had previously or the time you have spent working in the country is exceptionally unfair. Certainly, I would say that France's system, which takes both of these things into account and pays a % of your previous income is far more generous.

However, the attitude that social welfare is "generous" at all is mistaken, in my view. Mature and equal societies have it so that if you become unemployed you don't starve or go homeless. Is that really such a generous view?

Good point about france, the more you pay in over the years the more you get when you lose your job, where would that leave career dolers who make a living off the state and have no intention of getting a job. Our welfare rate is treble the rate of the UK, without taking into account CB for those with children, the reason many people are finding it hard to get by is debt. I was on welfare myself for a few months in the last year and got by fine, I didnt have any loans of any sort and had a good amount of savings (which i didnt have to dip into), luckily I didnt buy a house when I could have. 200 euro a week is enough to live on, those who are renting also get rent allowance and people with mortgages can apply for mortgage interest relief, I read lately somewhere that an unemployed couple with two kids can draw the equivelent of a 40k wage off the state, Id call that very generous, if people have high levels of debt thats their problem and not the states.

Lemondrop kid

mickeyk wrote: »

Good point about france, the more you pay in over the years the more you get when you lose your job, where would that leave career dolers who make a living off the state and have no intention of getting a job. Our welfare rate is treble the rate of the UK, without taking into account CB for those with children, the reason many people are finding it hard to get by is debt. I was on welfare myself for a few months in the last year and got by fine, I didnt have any loans of any sort and had a good amount of savings (which i didnt have to dip into), luckily I didnt buy a house when I could have. 200 euro a week is enough to live on, those who are renting also get rent allowance and people with mortgages can apply for mortgage interest relief, I read lately somewhere that an unemployed couple with two kids can draw the equivelent of a 40k wage off the state, Id call that very generous, if people have high levels of debt thats their problem and not the states.

Sigh, i shouldn't bother, but...

1/Try to remember, the unemployment rate was less than 3% - (regarded as the equivalent to nil)when jobs were available (won't bore you with the nature of accounting in employment terms) so when the jobs are there people will work.
2/ try it for a year or so, get back to me

The_Honeybadger

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Sigh, i shouldn't bother, but...

1/Try to remember, the unemployment rate was less than 3% - (regarded as the equivalent to nil)when jobs were available (won't bore you with the nature of accounting in employment terms) so when the jobs are there people will work.
2/ try it for a year or so, get back to me

Cant really see what your point is, of course I know people will work when there are jobs, nearly everyone on the dole is genuinely out of work through no fault of their own and deserve to be treated with respect. I have no issue with people who are on the dole, the question was "is the sytem generous?". Personally I dont think its too bad in Ireland. The two points you have made have nothing to do with my post. I would hope to never have to be on it for a year so I wont be getting back to you i am afraid.

PeakOutput

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Do you mean that I didn't pay for the taxes that pay for the politians and banking regulators? Or the taxes that have not built schools or funded hospitals?

well if you havnt been working for a long itme you havnt contributed to any taxes in a long time

also you 'social responsibility' was probbaly somewhat massaged by a potentialy large settlement which maybe you deserved and maybe you didnt

luckily you dont get to dictate terms to the goverment. even if i do like the idea of them being out of power immedietely

NinjaTruncs

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Your right, I should have worked and got a huge mortgage and bought property in Bulgeria.

What kind of stupid comment is that, not everyone who works took out a mortgage, but everyone who works does pay tax to fund your life.

bean na gaeilge

Social Welfare has to take a cut - between the income levy and the pension levy I have taken two cuts - Im a teacher in my second year out of college - I have friends on the social and between the dole and rent allowence and fuel etc they are earning more than my take home pay a week - if social welfare does not take a cut there will be no incentive to work..... :mad:Thats my opinion anyway!

Lunar_Wire

PeakOutput wrote: »

also you 'social responsibility' was probbaly somewhat massaged by a potentialy large settlement which maybe you deserved and maybe you didnt

Just to correct that factual error. There was zero possible gain to me, only risk. Man of straw and all that. Totally taken ( and won ) on behalf of Irish citizens, during a time of rampant capitalism and privatisation.

PeakOutput

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Just to correct that factual error. There was zero possible gain to me, only risk. Man of straw and all that. Totally taken ( and won ) on behalf of Irish citizens, during a time of rampant capitalism and privatisation.

so your not in debt to millions then?

Dannyboy83

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

You are not very forthcoming with the info, so apologies if my opinion is overly-assumptive.

I think many of us could equally sit at home and have a modest & full life, but we would not feel comfortable having other people pay for us.
If you can support yourself, independently, then knock yourself out.

But if you are claiming social welfare, because you are choosing not to work, do you honestly believe you have any moral ground to argue when it is being reduced, because those of us who are taxed to pay for your lifestyle no longer can afford to do so?

I find that insulting.