Socail Welfare Budget Cut Protest

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I never stated that I was too good to work in McD's in fact I stated that I had applied for minimum wage jobs and had been rejected, I have no want to be on social welfare, but I feel that to be told that waht I am getting is generous when it is not in dorect comparison to the rest of the EU is an insult to me.
I am emigrating so I am not sitting on my backside, far from it and that is a very broad assumation to make, but emigrating doesnt happen overnight.

What so wrong with min wage jobs, people make it sound like those doing this work are somehow less important.

There is a place for everyone in this world, imagine what it would be like without cleaners?

Every job is important in its own right, and what you do for a living does not say what you are.

I know plenty of very intelligent people in lower paid jobs, because the hours suit them, because of personal circumstances, they cannot or are not able to get a better job, but that does not make them any less valuable members of society.

life is not all about money and position.

gcgirl

ntlbell wrote: »

who's kicking anyone?

seems to be most people are just trying to throw a bit of perspective to the reality of the situation.

others just bawl in self pitty and give out that the world doesn't understand them.

there's so much good advice given out in these various threads if those people who are "down" actually listened to what people were saying they might just realise how lucky they're and get out and do something about it instead of whining about what people are not doing for them

not you personally, in general.

Education should be pushed but its hard to tell someone who is in their late 40's early 50's who have been working the same job for the last 30 to 40 yrs plus i have an awful lot of praise for someone who can get back in to education at that age, any person under the age of 25 on the JSA without a college education should go to college i don't see many people with degees/masters under that age staying in Ireland, there are so many things we could of invested a lot of money in proper state run childcare facilates in during our boom time we pissed a lot of money away (early child care allowance) they should have done like other country's and then we would not have needed an increase in CB!

masteroftherealm

Crosspost of mine but relevant to this thread and above questions:

We are so far back in the stone age in attitude and technology we are going backwards at this stage. Lowering the minimum wage, trying to get manufacturing and farming jobs. We are a First World economy, we are not a country who should be focusing on the Primary and Secondary industries, we are a country who should be moving into a majority tertiary income base yet we are still stuck in the dark ages. Ireland will not recover until we realize that things cant just stay the same, progress is whats needed, highly payed skilled jobs are whats needed to recover this economy not someone working for five euro an hour, that is whats wrong with this country, we are focusing on the entirely wrong thing, low wages is not what we can compete on, highly paid skilled educated workers are.

gcgirl

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Crosspost of mine but relevant to this thread and above questions:

We are so far back in the stone age in attitude and technology we are going backwards at this stage. Lowering the minimum wage, trying to get manufacturing and farming jobs. We are a First World economy, we are not a country who should be focusing on the Primary and Secondary industries, we are a country who should be moving into a majority tertiary income base yet we are still stuck in the dark ages. Ireland will not recover until we realize that things cant just stay the same, progress is whats needed, highly payed skilled jobs are whats needed to recover this economy not someone working for five euro an hour, that is whats wrong with this country, we are focusing on the entirely wrong thing, low wages is not what we can compete on, highly paid skilled educated workers are.

Totally agreed there!!

Maebh

I'm a spoilt insecure child because I don't think people should have to work in degrading jobs if they're better qualified? My view that the government should be trying to help the unemployed, not hurt them, is childish? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

tudlytops

gcgirl wrote: »

Education should be pushed but its hard to tell someone who is in their late 40's early 50's who have been working the same job for the last 30 to 40 yrs plus i have an awful lot of praise for someone who can get back in to education at that age, any person under the age of 25 on the JSA without a college education should go to college i don't see many people with degees/masters under that age staying in Ireland, there are so many things we could of invested a lot of money in proper state run childcare facilates in during our boom time we pissed a lot of money away (early child care allowance) they should have done like other country's and then we would not have needed an increase in CB!

I know what you saying not everyone is able to just go back to school.

I would say though, try, start with something on the simple side of things and go from there, whatever you do, don't let yourself down, but fears of starting again.

there are courses especially designed for people like you, grab one, you'll see its not as hard as you may think.

i do understudy its harder with children, but there are loads of families and single perents in or not on the min wages that manage, there is always away, but people have to help themselves no wait for the government to do it for them.

I am not super women, super cleaver and I worked, put myself through school, while raising a child, did not have family members to help me, just a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work.

gcgirl

We have the talent to make this country good we just need the means!! but as long as we're bailing sean dunne out we're fcuked

Maebh

cson wrote: »

Er, they are helping the economy - less welfare to pay out along with more PRSI coming in. And they're helping themselves too - more money than being on Welfare and in most cases a damn good experience to boot.

Most of the people I know who are unemployed, and I know a few, lol, really do not need the "experience" they would supposedly gain from a minimum wage job. Most of them have become unemployed in the last year, are over 30, and would really rather there was something being done about job creation in this country, instead of being told they should just get a minimum wage job. (By the way, the area I live in has higher than the national average unemployment, there really aren't any jobs going, minimum wage or no)...

ntlbell

gcgirl wrote: »

Education should be pushed but its hard to tell someone who is in their late 40's early 50's who have been working the same job for the last 30 to 40 yrs plus i have an awful lot of praise for someone who can get back in to education at that age, any person under the age of 25 on the JSA without a college education should go to college i don't see many people with degees/masters under that age staying in Ireland, there are so many things we could of invested a lot of money in proper state run childcare facilates in during our boom time we pissed a lot of money away (early child care allowance) they should have done like other country's and then we would not have needed an increase in CB!

I'm in full agreement, but I'm not really sure how it's all relevant?

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

I know what you saying not everyone is able to just go back to school.

I would say though, try, start with something on the simple side of things and go from there, whatever you do, don't let yourself down, but fears of starting again.

there are courses especially designed for people like you, grab one, you'll see its not as hard as you may think.

i do understudy its harder with children, but there are loads of families and single perents in or not on the min wages that manage, there is always away, but people have to help themselves no wait for the government to do it for them.

I am not super women, super cleaver and I worked, put myself through school, while raising a child, did not have family members to help me, just a lot, a lot, a lot of hard work.

sorry i was actually talking about my step father i am a career for 3 people in my family at the moment !

Rev. BlueJeans

Maebh wrote: »

I'm a spoilt insecure child because I don't think people should have to work in degrading jobs if they're better qualified? My view that the government should be trying to help the unemployed, not hurt them, is childish? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Degrading?

Just as well we had all those Poles here in the good times, to do all those demeaning jobs so that our circa 200k unemployed or unemployable at the time wouldn't have to stoop to the level of an honest days graft!

Sometimes, Irish people make me sick to my stomach.

tudlytops

Maebh wrote: »

I'm a spoilt insecure child because I don't think people should have to work in degrading jobs if they're better qualified? My view that the government should be trying to help the unemployed, not hurt them, is childish? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

Degrading jobs, tell me a job that's degrading.

What's degrading is not working when there are jobs, what's degrading is to be told you not employable because you have a disability.

there is no such thing as a degrading job.

This is excly what i mean about making people go to work.

masteroftherealm

gcgirl wrote: »

We have the talent to make this country good we just need the means!! but as long as we're bailing sean dunne out we're fcuked

Well soon enough if things continue as they are we will not have the talent, I am leaving, many of my friends are leaving, I know of at least 2 familys are leaving, one with a family income of over 250,000.
The country is pushing out its future and driving us away. I loved this country, but its unsustainable for me to stay here.

Kensington

Maebh wrote: »

You wanna bet that no one's too qualified for a minimum wage job? You wanna say that someone who's qualified to post-grad and has run their own business should work in McDo's? My God, get a brain!

So you want to tell me that I should work for a pittance, or feck off and emigrate?

Someone who goes on a training scheme or works minimum wage when they're better qualified than the monkeys they work for is being degraded, plain and simple. Sometimes I think this country has no respect for education.

When you work a minimum wage job you have no time or energy to look for a better job. This is not a good use of our graduates.

If you had a bit of forward thinking, then yes you would work for pittance. Qualifications are not the primary factor for an employer when choosing to hire someone for a job.

Imagine you're an employer in four of five years time and you're looking for potential employees to take on. Let's imagine you have two potential CVs.

CV#1 is qualified in the particular area and since leaving college, has held three years continuously in a permanent, full time position in Burger King.
CV#2 is also qualified in the particular area, perhaps even more qualified than CV#1, but has been on the social welfare for three years. Has not held a job of any description since college.

Who do you think they're going to hire?

masteroftherealm

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm in full agreement, but I'm not really sure how it's all relevant?

We were taking about minimum wage jobs. This country needs to move away from minimum wage jobs. This country cannot survive on minimum wage earners. People need to get this into their heads.

ntlbell

Maebh wrote: »

I'm a spoilt insecure child because I don't think people should have to work in degrading jobs if they're better qualified? My view that the government should be trying to help the unemployed, not hurt them, is childish? I'm sorry, I don't follow.

degrading?

Do you look down on people who do low skilled jobs?

do you stick your nose up at cleaner? a guy taking your bins?

is he being demeaned?

it's degrading to you because you have some delusions of granduar.

your not your job, your not your pay packet.

ntlbell

masteroftherealm wrote: »

We were taking about minimum wage jobs. This country needs to move away from minimum wage jobs. This country cannot survive on minimum wage earners. People need to get this into their heads.

someone has to do them tho?

masteroftherealm

Kensington wrote: »

If you had a bit of forward thinking, then yes you would work for pittance. Qualifications are not the primary factor for an employer when choosing to hire someone for a job.

Imagine you're an employer in four of five years time and you're looking for potential employees to take on. Let's imagine you have two potential CVs.

CV#1 is qualified in the particular area and since leaving college, has held three years continuously in a permanent, full time position in Burger King.
CV#2 is also qualified in the particular area, perhaps even more qualified than CV#1, but has been on the social welfare for three years. Has not held a job of any description since college.

Who do you think they're going to hire?

We are not always talking about people who have never worked.
What about CV3: Highly qualified, 6 years experience in the sector and unemployed for 8 months. I would take CV3 in my professional opinion.

gcgirl

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Well soon enough if things continue as they are we will not have the talent, I am leaving, many of my friends are leaving, I know of at least 2 familys are leaving, one with a family income of over 250,000.
The country is pushing out its future and driving us away. I loved this country, but its unsustainable for me to stay here.

The amount of graduates that Ireland are losing highly educated and highly skilled its unbelievable! Though cheap places to stay with friends when on holiday !!

masteroftherealm

ntlbell wrote: »

someone has to do them tho?

Yes but having a highly qualified person doing them is a waste of a resource and a waste of potential tax income. Someone earning 75k is going to pay more in tax in a year than a BK employee will earn let alone pay in tax.

Stimulate the economy and get the qualified people jobs so that they can pay tax!

tudlytops

No point moaning about the jobs that aren't there.

So now one has to do a lesser well paid job, so what, that's life, up and down.

No one is to qualified to work, if you can get what you want, take what you get and keep looking for what you want.

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Yes but having a highly qualified person doing them is a waste of a resource and a waste of potential tax income. Someone earning 75k is going to pay more in tax in a year than a BK employee will earn let alone pay in tax.

Stimulate the economy and get the qualified people jobs so that they can pay tax!

But if the 75K job is not there, they can take the 12K and stop moaning about being on the welfare

ntlbell

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Yes but having a highly qualified person doing them is a waste of a resource and a waste of potential tax income. Someone earning 75k is going to pay more in tax in a year than a BK employee will earn let alone pay in tax.

Stimulate the economy and get the qualified people jobs so that they can pay tax!

Yes that's all well n good, but untill that happens (if it does) there's no reason not to be doing some form of work.

what's a more wasted resource? sitting on the scratch pulling from the public coffers or earning a few quid?

As I said there can be a lot of lower paid jobs where you can learn something, learn a skill more importantly learn something about yourself.

the bottom line is not always the bank balance, there's far more important things.

Maebh

"There's nothing so degrading as the constant anxiety about one's means of livelihood" - W. Somerset Maugham

I've been in jobs where I would say I felt looked down upon and lesser (maid), and been constantly abused just for doing my job (call-centre)...so yeah, I would call those jobs degrading.

I don't think the people doing them actually are of less worth, just that they are made to feel that they are. And people do look down on the people who do the more everyday things. Personally, I try to be nice to everyone in RL, no matter what their circumstances, but that doesn't mean I want to clean hotels again.

I don't think someone should just sit around all day and do nothing while they're unemployed, but I don't think there are any opportunities for unemployed people, either. Which is largely the fault of the government and the banks for f*cking this country up to this extent.

masteroftherealm

No because thats not what happens, whats happens in those people leave.
And the Irish State loses out of all future tax revenue.

Multiply that by eightly thousand and this country is in a very very bad place.

Its called a Brain Drain.

tudlytops

in recension times, they were here before and will be again, it's not about what people want or not want, its about taking what's there.

I for one treat people the way i like to be treated, regardless of there job, income or status.

I don't have anytime for people that think just because they have a better job, they are somehow better and more important then the rest.

gcgirl

tudlytops wrote: »

But if the 75K job is not there, they can take the 12K and stop moaning about being on the welfare

but what tax is that person paying? nil
Where as a person earning 75 k a yr is paying a lot of tax!(giving different circumstances) they are the jobs we should be getting in somehow we have the people!

irish_bob

tudlytops wrote: »

I don't think it should be cut, it should be reviewed, everyone on benefits should be reviewed.

And all benefits means tested, all of them.

id like to ask you something , the perception in ireland among a large percentage of the people and nearly all of the media is that those on low incomes and wellfare are not well looked after in ireland , what is your opinion on this

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

No because thats not what happens, whats happens in those people leave.
And the Irish State loses out of all future tax revenue.

Multiply that by eightly thousand and this country is in a very very bad place.

Its called a Brain Drain.

I think that's a lot of drama and i don't think Ireland is in any serious risk of losing all their "important, valuable people" to the point that the country wont be able to recover,

Ireland like many other countries is going through a recession, nothing more, nothing less, it will recover and eventual it will happen again

masteroftherealm

tudlytops wrote: »

in recension times, they were here before and will be again, it's not about what people want or not want, its about taking what's there.

I for one treat people the way i like to be treated, regardless of there job, income or status.

I don't have anytime for people that think just because they have a better job, they are somehow better and more important then the rest.

It will recover, in maybe ten years.
Have fun in the meantime, this country is in need of an attitude shift and a government shift.
Until then this country will not recover.