Socail Welfare Budget Cut Protest

ntlbell

gcgirl wrote: »

but what tax is that person paying? nil
Where as a person earning 75 k a yr is paying a lot of tax!(giving different circumstances) they are the jobs we should be getting in somehow we have the people!

they're _not_ taking 204 in jsa payments. rent allowance, medical cards and everything else

the 75k a year job isn't there why keep going on about it

salarys in this country were getting rediclous and I include my own.

Stupid's amount of money at times for fluff and fresh air.

it's not sustainable.

land of leather sales men pulling out 80k a year?

it just went crazy and if you were part of that madness, the thoughts of getting a lot less for the same job now is not an attractive prospect.

but considering the whole ecnomoy was based on pretend money that never really existed there wasn't much hope for it continuing.

now a reality check is needed.

masteroftherealm

tudlytops wrote: »

Ireland like many other countries is going through a recession, nothing more, nothing less, it will recover and eventual it will happen again

I wint to single out this statemtent.
This is strong wording on my part but I will say it anyway.

That is a very very ill-informed and grossfully ignorant statement showing that you have NO realization of the situation.

masteroftherealm

ntlbell wrote: »

they're _not_ taking 204 in jsa payments. rent allowance, medical cards and everything else

the 75k a year job isn't there why keep going on about it

salarys in this country were getting rediclous and I include my own.

Stupid's amount of money at times for fluff and fresh air.

it's not sustainable.

land of leather sales men pulling out 80k a year?

it just went crazy and if you were part of that madness, the thoughts of getting a lot less for the same job now is not an attractive prospect.

but considering the whole ecnomoy was based on pretend money that never really existed there wasn't much hope for it continuing.

now a reality check is needed.

The jobs aint here but they are abroad.

gcgirl

ntlbell wrote: »

they're _not_ taking 204 in jsa payments. rent allowance, medical cards and everything else

the 75k a year job isn't there why keep going on about it

salarys in this country were getting rediclous and I include my own.

Stupid's amount of money at times for fluff and fresh air.

it's not sustainable.

land of leather sales men pulling out 80k a year?

it just went crazy and if you were part of that madness, the thoughts of getting a lot less for the same job now is not an attractive prospect.

but considering the whole ecnomoy was based on pretend money that never really existed there wasn't much hope for it continuing.

now a reality check is needed.

Jees i am not talking land of leather sales men here i talking i talking highly qualified people in their fields 1 person earning 60 k upwards is gonna be better that 5 people earning 12 k each? is it not?

tudlytops

irish_bob wrote: »

id like to ask you something , the perception in ireland among a large percentage of the people and nearly all of the media is that those on low incomes and wellfare are not well looked after in ireland , what is your opinion on this

Ok people will always want more, we like to take when the going is good but we don't like to give back when the going gets tough.

I'm on Disability allowance and my partner is on Invalidity benefit, our youngest just left home for college, we renting privately and I can tell you, what we have is enough, with a head on your shoulders you can live quite comfortable.

We have no luxuries, like holidays, breaks away, or sky, but we do have internet, a roof over our heads, cloths and food, since we not somehow especial i would say the welfare is quite generous. We actually have much more then my sister (in Portugal) who is working.

As for the media, the media loves nothing more then to stair, it sells papers and increases viewing.

I'd say look at other EU countries, see what they get and then say that the people in Ireland can't live on what they are given.

Problem is that the unemployed want to have the same as the employed, why should they, we should work for what we want.

Benefits are to keep you going, not to by flat screen TV's, SKY, etc., but if they want all of these things without working, then i suppose their belles are going to soffer

ntlbell

gcgirl wrote: »

Jees i am not talking land of leather sales men here i talking i talking highly qualified people in their fields 1 person earning 60 k upwards is gonna be better that 5 people earning 12 k each? is it not?

the point i'm making is that ALL salry's becaome rediclous.

and they'll ALL have to re-adjust.

from consultants to GP's to whoever, everyone is going to have to come back down to reality

tudlytops

gcgirl wrote: »

Jees i am not talking land of leather sales men here i talking i talking highly qualified people in their fields 1 person earning 60 k upwards is gonna be better that 5 people earning 12 k each? is it not?

yeah But 5 highly qualified people on the dole is worse then 5 highly qualified people in "degrading jobs".

There is no excuse for not taking a job, just because one feels they are to good for it.

In any case 5 highly qualified people out of work cost the same as 5 less highly qualified people out of work, and if there is no work for their qualifications then they may as well be 5 highly unqualified people

Maebh

ntlbell wrote: »

degrading?

Do you look down on people who do low skilled jobs?

do you stick your nose up at cleaner? a guy taking your bins?

is he being demeaned?

it's degrading to you because you have some delusions of granduar.

your not your job, your not your pay packet.

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it's because I've been a cleaner/maid and because I have previously worked in low paid jobs that I feel I know from experience that these jobs are degrading by their very nature. You're being paid f*ck all squared to clean other people's mess. I have been there. I don't wish to repeat it. I feel I am now in a more experienced position and shouldn't have to go back to my younger self.

So no, I don't stick my nose up, but that doesn't mean I want to go scrape and beg for another minimum wage job.

Nor should any other unemployed person who is qualified. Or experienced. Or trained. Or capable.

These people should be invested in, not squandered by being forced to take barely-above-SW jobs.

masteroftherealm

tudlytops wrote: »

I'd say look at other EU countries, see what they get and then say that the people in Ireland can't live on what they are given.

I keep having to bring this back up.

I would earn more on the social welfare systems of almost all of the other EU counties except the UK. Please stop spreading the blatant lie that the Irish social welafer system is the most generous in the EU.

ntlbell

masteroftherealm wrote: »

The jobs aint here but they are abroad.

It depends on your field, but regardless of field you will be hard pressed to find an economy at the moment where people get paid as much as we were paying out here.

England is not in great shape.

spain/italy/france/germany/greece etc etc

all in pretty bad shape.

Just jumping ship isn't for everyone, a lot of people have huge mortgages, negative equity, kids, familiy etc that they can't just up and go.

masteroftherealm

ntlbell wrote: »

It depends on your field, but regardless of field you will be hard pressed to find an economy at the moment where people get paid as much as we were paying out here.

England is not in great shape.

spain/italy/france/germany/greece etc etc

all in pretty bad shape.

Just jumping ship isn't for everyone, a lot of people have huge mortgages, negative equity, kids, familiy etc that they can't just up and go.

No I totally understand that and Im not saying that its an opportunity for everyone. I will be taking a pay cut when moving, in addition to the huge cost of emigrating.
But the jobs are there is you look hard, I am moving to Canada who are crying out for skilled people in various areas.

ntlbell

Maebh wrote: »

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it's because I've been a cleaner/maid and because I have previously worked in low paid jobs that I feel I know from experience that these jobs are degrading by their very nature. You're being paid f*ck all squared to clean other people's mess. I have been there. I don't wish to repeat it. I feel I am now in a more experienced position and shouldn't have to go back to my younger self.

So no, I don't stick my nose up, but that doesn't mean I want to go scrape and beg for another minimum wage job.

Nor should any other unemployed person who is qualified. Or experienced. Or trained. Or capable.

These people should be invested in, not squandered by being forced to take barely-above-SW jobs.

why did you answer it twice? i got it the first time?

lowly paid jobs make you feel insecure and your not self asured and self confident enough to get on with the job and are more worried about what other people think.

that's fine.

ntlbell

masteroftherealm wrote: »

No I totally understand that and Im not saying that its an opportunity for everyone. I will be taking a pay cut when moving, in addition to the huge cost of emigrating.
But the jobs are there is you look hard, I am moving to Canada who are crying out for skilled people in various areas.

Yup Canada seems to be the holy grail at the moment.

masteroftherealm

ntlbell wrote: »

why did you answer it twice? i got it the first time?

lowly paid jobs make you feel insecure and your not self asured and self confident enough to get on with the job and are more worried about what other people think.

that's fine.

Attack the principal not the poster or I will report you.

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tudlytops

ntlbell wrote: »

It depends on your field, but regardless of field you will be hard pressed to find an economy at the moment where people get paid as much as we were paying out here.

England is not in great shape.

spain/italy/france/germany/greece etc etc

all in pretty bad shape.

Just jumping ship isn't for everyone, a lot of people have huge mortgages, negative equity, kids, familiy etc that they can't just up and go.

Yes emigrating is not for everyone.

But tell me, how come cleaning companies, security companies, etc, still can't get all the staff they need? It's because of people that think they are to good to do these jobs, so they ruther stay on the dole and cry about it.

Maebh

ntlbell wrote: »

why did you answer it twice? i got it the first time?

lowly paid jobs make you feel insecure and your not self asured and self confident enough to get on with the job and are more worried about what other people think.

that's fine.

I said they were degrading, not that I was insecure.

Low paid jobs don't reflect mine or other friends' ability to contribute to society. "getting on with the job" is all very well and good, but one should not have to just put up and shut up.

So, to re-state it in clearer terms that you may understand. I do not judge people on their incomes. However, I feel that personally I can do better than minimum wage. So for now I'm going to carry on with my training and hope for either an injection of sanity for the people in control, or for a sudden upswing in popularity for populous revolts, lol.

Because no, I will not be made to feel like being kicked to the curb by society is somehow my fault, and that I should take whatever I can get and be glad for it.

ntlbell

tudlytops wrote: »

Yes emigrating is not for everyone.

But tell me, how come cleaning companies, security companies, etc, still can't get all the staff they need? It's because of people that think they are to good to do these jobs, so they ruther stay on the dole and cry about it.

I have no idea, that's why I can't understand why people are having such a hard time getting a job.

There seems to be plenty of work.

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I keep having to bring this back up.

I would earn more on the social welfare systems of almost all of the other EU counties except the UK. Please stop spreading the blatant lie that the Irish social welafer system is the most generous in the EU.

Like where, was born in Portugal, i have lived in France, UK and Ireland and in none of those would I be better of then here.


People tend to look just at the basic benefit and assume all is better over there, you know " the grass is always greener on the other side", but you can't just look at the basic benefit, you have to add all that one can get, CA, Rent allowance, Fis, etc before you can say something like that.

ntlbell

tudlytops wrote: »

Like where, was born in Portugal, i have lived in France, UK and Ireland and in none of those would I be better of then here.


People tend to look just at the basic benefit and assume all is better over there, you know " the grass is always greener on the other side", but you can't just look at the basic benefit, you have to add all that one can get, CA, Rent allowance, Fis, etc before you can say something like that.

I think France's depends on your previous earnings.

so if you're in a very good job you might be better off.

but I think the standard one is pretty low.

I don't think there's rent allowance etc tho, I could be wrong.

tudlytops

ntlbell wrote: »

I have no idea, that's why I can't understand why people are having such a hard time getting a job.

There seems to be plenty of work.

there is, i looked into the FAS site and there is plenty of work, but there aren't jobs, people want nice jobs, not work

masteroftherealm

tudlytops wrote: »

Like where, was born in Portugal, i have lived in France, UK and Ireland and in none of those would I be better of then here.


People tend to look just at the basic benefit and assume all is better over there, you know " the grass is always greener on the other side", but you can't just look at the basic benefit, you have to add all that one can get, CA, Rent allowance, Fis, etc before you can say something like that.

I am on benefits in case you didnt see that.
I dont qualify for 90% of the addons.

And Im sorry but unless you were earning less than the minimum wage you would be better off in most EU countries, please show me figures to displute this and I will retract my statement.

tudlytops

ntlbell wrote: »

I think France's depends on your previous earnings.

so if you're in a very good job you might be better off.

but I think the standard one is pretty low.

I don't think there's rent allowance etc tho, I could be wrong.

Yes France is like Portugal but it's not forever, they can do that because they don't allow people to stay on welfare forever.

And they have a cap, i mean if you were arning 60K they are not going to pay you 48K in benefits.

And more if these people had such good salaries, why didn't they get insurance just in case, and why didn't they save money, you know save for a rainy day.

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I keep having to bring this back up.

I would earn more on the social welfare systems of almost all of the other EU counties except the UK. Please stop spreading the blatant lie that the Irish social welafer system is the most generous in the EU.

Oh and i didn't say the most generous i said very very generous.

masteroftherealm

OT: Can someone please fix the spelling mistake in the thread title; it's driving me nuts.

masteroftherealm

tudlytops wrote: »

Oh and i didn't say the most generous i said very very generous.

No if you earned a decent wage its one of the lowest payments in the EU

Maebh

Either way, "generous" is not a word that should be used to describe a subsistence payment.

tudlytops

Maebh wrote: »

I said they were degrading, not that I was insecure.

Low paid jobs don't reflect mine or other friends' ability to contribute to society. "getting on with the job" is all very well and good, but one should not have to just put up and shut up.

So, to re-state it in clearer terms that you may understand. I do not judge people on their incomes. However, I feel that personally I can do better than minimum wage. So for now I'm going to carry on with my training and hope for either an injection of sanity for the people in control, or for a sudden upswing in popularity for populous revolts, lol.

Because no, I will not be made to feel like being kicked to the curb by society is somehow my fault, and that I should take whatever I can get and be glad for it.

If there aren't any jobs for what you are qualified, then you can't do better, the only thing you can do is your best until things get better.

I don't know why people are making so much noise, recessions is nothing new, they happen and people and countries recover.

tudlytops

Maebh wrote: »

Either way, "generous" is not a word that should be used to describe a subsistence payment.

It is not subsistence payment, it is generous, I'm on them so i know one can do quite comfortable on them, comfortable not in luxury.

Muzzer

Maebh wrote: »

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it's because I've been a cleaner/maid and because I have previously worked in low paid jobs that I feel I know from experience that these jobs are degrading by their very nature. You're being paid f*ck all squared to clean other people's mess. I have been there. I don't wish to repeat it. I feel I am now in a more experienced position and shouldn't have to go back to my younger self.

So no, I don't stick my nose up, but that doesn't mean I want to go scrape and beg for another minimum wage job.

Nor should any other unemployed person who is qualified. Or experienced. Or trained. Or capable.

These people should be invested in, not squandered by being forced to take barely-above-SW jobs.

One mans garbage is another mans treasure..

If I see a cleaner, sweeper or any other so called low paid worker, I see a person whom I respect because he/she is working for a living.

At the end of the day - a job is a job and your life is what you make of it.

I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying there's no jobs out there when they would be better off thinking 'how can I maximise my situation!'

Negative thinking breaths negative actions and this has been scientifically proven to be contageous.

Let me also mention any job title does not mean low paid. I know of a lady who is being paid €17ph to work as a waitress and is also complaining about taking a pay cut!

Everyone is taking a hit and if not now they will. Lets suck it up people - life goes on.

masteroftherealm

Please quantify your statements, generous in relation to what?
A Chinese worker on 100 dollars a year??

Or to the rest of the Eu where it is not nessesarily generous depending on your previous earinings.