Poor Cavity Wall beads?

Smcgie

I seem to be keeping you two busy

But i think all in all there are two good arguments. I can see both sides of the argument.

Thanks guys. I'm no Mystic Meg but i bet that padlock buttons tempting you's :pac:

Poor Uncle Tom

It need'nt, if you'd leave things be, or bring something new to the table....;)

Smcgie

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It need'nt, if you'd leave things be, or bring something new to the table....;)

It must be like Templemore over in the C&P Mod forum! Muffler has ya's all well schooled :eek:

Tea and cakes in the boardroom....and meanwhile the OP's house is getting colder...

holdfast

Still not answer the question and the thread has gone to is it worthwhile getting a APT test when refurbishing a build. The answer is yes. It’s not the ber assessor vs APT. I have only mentioned the pros of the test. How do you know the test will be of lesser value you do not understand it or mostly likely never seen one. What points you have handed out there i as kind of advice I would hope most people would already know. What they bring you or I in to do is give more than that.

Take 400 for the test and 100 on filler tapes etc and give yourself 100 for your time and fill all the areas of air loss and that coast 600 euro. Take it a house loses 30% of its heat from drafts and the air tightness test finds and solves 1/2 of the problem. Say that is equal to a saving of 225 euro on a normal heating bill of 1500 per year. Pay back in less than three. Also unwanted ventilation also bring moisture in the house and on to insulation thus reducing its effectiveness by a third so more saving. These are point are already to stated in the links I have posted.

I think the only thing debate is doing is increasing my posts. As you do not want to admit that it is worth doing an APT, where all evidence in published papers and advice by professionals recommend the test. The worst of all you are doing from a base where you have not experience or knowledge to comment on it.

holdfast

Glad this has ended.

MicktheMan

abbey2000 wrote: »

Hello,

My partner's house was built 5 years ago, it is a 3 bed bungalow. The house is very cold and does not hold the heat in. We had a BER assessment done, we were told that the attic insulation was ok.

We had been interested in getting the cavity walls insulated, but he told us that was already done. He poked in around the ESB box and pulled out a few beads. He said that the house was already filled with low quality beads, and there was nothing we could do now.

We just want the house to be warmer. We probably will put extra insulation in the attic. But is there anything we can do about the cavity walls now? Is there any way to replace the beads that are there with better ones?

Or has anyone any other suggestions as to how we can make the place retain the heat better?

To the OP:
Your house is a bungalow and the cavity is filled with loose bead. Did your assessor check how full (of beads) the cavity is? I live in a bungalow and the previous owner had it pumped with loose bead. Due to wind etc, this bead flowed/excaped etc and as a result there was a 2 ft void all around the house in the cavity where there was not bead - exactly where you want the bead to be as heat rises after all. I took out the remaining bead and replaced it with a better bonded bead product.

How airtight/draughty is your house? Most heating systems work by heating the air and if this air can easily escape from the building then the house wont retain heat very well. Depending on the structure of the house and workmanship of the builder, air can infiltrate from a large number of areas. A "well insulated house" can still perform very poorly and be cold if there is excessive air infiltration throughout the house.

My advice is to know where the problems are before spending your money on stuff that "might" or "probably will" make the house better. If you google "Heal Loss Survey" or something like that then will find a lot more info on this.

holdfast

micktheman dont start it again. you should have not mentioned apt.

smcgie take over:).

muffler

Just a word of caution here. Moderator's instructions are not to be ignored on this thread or anywhere on the forum. Play nice and you will be fine but when someone deliberately posts in defiance of a mods instructions then their future participation in this forum is put in jeopardy.

I have issued one infraction and Id rather leave it at that.

Bhoypaul

It was stated that the debate was getting into a BER Assessment v APT agruement. That was incorrect.
The BER assessment can't take into account poor workmanship that is hidden from view. An IR image and APT can pick these up.

In my previous post I have recommended to the OP a course of investigative actions that he should undertake.
Any feedback or comments on this would be of interest.

muffler

The following is the nuts and bolts of the original topic. Stick to that please.

abbey2000 wrote: »

The house is very cold ...............We had a BER assessment done, we were told that the attic insulation was ok.
.........cavity already filled with low quality beads..........anything we can do about the cavity walls now? Is there any way to replace the beads

Candy11

Hi guys
need some advice on Cavity wall insulation. I was having my walls done today and when I asked for the workmen to check the lower part of the walls by drilling a hole, there was no bead which I thought there would be if the beads had completely filled the cavity. Also I have a dormer and the guys wouldn't go up to the top of the A because their ladder wouldn't reach - should I insist on this (I think I should).

In one Eve the beading came through into the eve but in another eve it didn't which lead me to believe the beading wasn't complete either.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Candy

SilverBER

Candy11 wrote: »

Hi guys
need some advice on Cavity wall insulation. I was having my walls done today and when I asked for the workmen to check the lower part of the walls by drilling a hole, there was no bead which I thought there would be if the beads had completely filled the cavity. Also I have a dormer and the guys wouldn't go up to the top of the A because their ladder wouldn't reach - should I insist on this (I think I should).

In one Eve the beading came through into the eve but in another eve it didn't which lead me to believe the beading wasn't complete either.

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated.

Candy

Are you having this work done through the SEI HES scheme?

Candy11

Yes we have applied for the grant. I spoke to a guy today that does the BER so he I asked him to assess the work afterwards with the usual technology.

SilverBER

Candy11 wrote: »

Yes we have applied for the grant. I spoke to a guy today that does the BER so he I asked him to assess the work afterwards with the usual technology.

If youve applied for the grant then SEI are the people to ring because if it isnt done correctly they wont issue the cheque

Bhoypaul

Candy11 wrote: »

.... Also I have a dormer and the guys wouldn't go up to the top of the A because their ladder wouldn't reach - should I insist on this (I think I should).

You can always judge good workmen by the quality of their tools and you don't get a more basic tool that a ladder.

Based on your post I would be extremely doubtful over the quality of the job they have carried out and their technical knowledge of what they were doing. To become an approved contractor on the HES schme all you have to do is demonstrate commercial viability not technical knowledge.

If you are not happy insist on a thermal image of the house. You will probably have to pay for this yourself but if it proves the work wasn't done correctly it will be worth it.
I don't carry them out, but you should find people who do any one of the BER directories like berassoc.ie or berdirectory.ie (assume this is within forum rules).

feckoffcrow

I know that in the posters case its a dormer but in the case of a regular house, is there any need or advantage in having cavity fill up to the apex of the gable wall?
Also, should this wall be capped off/sealed at the top? Mine isn't - and thats why i'm wondering.

Quiksilver

As muffler said, the basics of what was asked was the following.

The house is very cold ...............We had a BER assessment done, we were told that the attic insulation was ok.
.........cavity already filled with low quality beads..........anything we can do about the cavity walls now? Is there any way to replace the beads

To abbey2000, did the ber assessor inspect the cavity only at the meter box or did he drill an inspection hole?
You said your assessor pulled out some beads at the meter box. Did he show you this? What colour were they? If he said the cavity was filled with low quality beads that would lead me to think that there could be one of two materials used.
1. White polystyrene bead insulation.
Or
2. A pumped fiberglass insulation.
I have inspected several houses in limerick that have fiberglass installed and at the meter box it can look yellow balls of wool, similar to a large bauble of wool you can find on jumpers. Fiberglass insulation can compress over time and create voids in the insulation which will cause cold patches in the walls.

Saying that if either insulation was not installed properly their may be voids. During construction of the house if debris fell into the cavity(be it mortar, bottles, cans, rubbish ect.) this could disturb the flow of the bead being installed and create voids. Unfortunately this cannot be seen by installers. A thermal image would be a logical step as this should show up any voids. You should be able to get this done fairly cheap, you don't want a full assessment of the house and you may not need a full report written by the assessor. Just a quick look for voids in the insulation.

As for removing the insulation from the cavity, it can be done. would only recommend it for houses with fiberglass due to the deterioration of the material over time. The White polystyrene bead can be removed as well and replaced with the platinum bead. The question is, is the 10-20% increase in efficiency worth the €1000-3000 removal plus the €500-1000 installation of new insulation. In the case for the fiberglass i think it is but if you already have the White polystyrene bead i wouldn't be too sure, depends on how long you plan on living in the house.