Cats in other people's gardens

Allison91

I never knew cats could be such a nuisance its the dogs where I live that are bothersome, always using our garden as a toilet and barking at people walking outside I usually just stay inside or go to a park to walk because a lot of dogs would either bark or follow me, maybe it depends where you live.

CamperMan

Paul91 wrote: »

but if you see a dog out roaming you can call the dog warden - i can't call a cat warden

if I was to call the dog warden everytime I saw a dog on the loose, I would be hitting the speed dial all the time......

Paul91

CamperMan wrote: »

if I was to call the dog warden everytime I saw a dog on the loose, I would be hitting the speed dial all the time......

but you have that option - whether you chose to exercise it or not

seamus

It's primarily because cats are considered (in our archaic laws) to be "wild" animals, whereas dogs are farm animals - companions and pets. Cats on a farm in times gone by would rarely be allowed into the family home, sometimes wouldn't even be fed by the farmer and would largely just co-exist on the farm, providing pest control and so forth.

Dogs on the other hand provide a function. Dogs had a value - they were trained and raised, whereas cats just did their thing, having no intrinsic value. This is the primary reason why a dog owner can be held liable for the actions of his dog, but a cat owner cannot.

The flipside however is also true - if a dog ends up injured due to someone's negligence, the owner has some comeback. The same cannot be said for a cat. So if a cat gets mauled by someone's dog, it's basically tough sh*t for the cat owner.
So you'll find that most cat owners would be just as eager for some legislation in that area as the people who are being stalked by said cat.

I wouldn't however require that cats are kept under as strict a control as dogs. Dogs are inherently messy and when acting in a pack can actually be surprisingly strong and destructive. Cats on the other hand, will still live in co-operation with eachother but will rarely (if ever) engage in pack behaviour or get involved in the wanton destruction of property and livestock.
The nature of cats also means that they pose little or no danger to humans and other larger animals.
However, if a cat is causing a nuisance or damaging property, then there should be a method by which other people can complain and have the owner sanctioned if it continues.

cianer, I'd suggest that you mention the incident to the cat owner. Try to point out as unthreateningly as possible that you may not be able to save the cat next time and if the cat is killed or badly injured, you're not required to take any responsibility for it.

Of course, if a cat is considered "property" in Ireland, then I'm wrong, but I can't find anything which would back that up.

Kyri

I love both cats and dogs so I am not trying to take sides.

Just wanted to ask one something - Isn't the reason we have dog wardens and laws about dogs due to the fact that they can do serious harm to people. I'm not a fool into thinking that every animal is dangerous but a cat can't knock over an old age pensioner, can't maul a grown adult to death or other things of that affect- I am fully aware of cats gone mental also but the reports of cats in our society today compared to dogs doing things that directly effect a persons life is dramatically different.

I don't agree with anyone not taking responsibilty for their animal - I have two kittens atm and I don't think I'l ever let them out as i know from when I lived with my folks how digusting gardening can be when you dont know where u'l dig up a lil surprise but still cat poo is tiny compared to the majority of dog crap you see plus they bury it so it's not as noticable. I don't think i've ever had to throw away a pair of shoes because I steped in cat poo.

Besides them poo'ing in a neighbours garden the main concern I would have is them getting run over or hurt - I see so many cat, fox and rabbit bodies on the way home I think that alone would deter me from letting the two munchkins out.

I was worried about the Toxoplasmosis virus that can be picked up from their poo as I do want to have kids and will have to take into account I cant just isolate my pets for nine months but after research into it I found out that all animals are carries so using the same precautions you would when perparing food or even washing up after being in the garden should stop or greatly reduce any chances of picking it up so there is no way of blaming one animal when the virus has been present in nature for soo long and passed from animal to animal over soo many years.

Anyways good topic. Just my 2 cents.

Discodog

My concern is that we do not lose sight of one fact. It is not the cat's fault. So please don't take out one's frustrations on the cat. Cats already get a pretty rough deal in Ireland.

I know a couple who are both teachers. I walked past their house one day & their children asked me to "come & see the kittens". I was already concerned as they have never appeared to be animal lovers. I noticed an open tin of Ambrosia creamed rice - the kittens dinner. I was told that they would not be neutered or fed as they would "catch their own food". My reaction & that of their cat loving neighbour was enough that they gave the kittens to a good home.

If teachers think like this then what hope is there for the poor Irish cat. Norway has just introduced legislation for every cat to be microchipped. As for cats in a dog owners garden, I would deliberately put something in the garden to give the cat an easy escape route.

Regarding deterrents I have found the PIR sprinklers to be the best - just remember that it is there when you walk into your own garden !.

cianer

I still can't believe the cat owner attitudes.... I should be putting in things to discourage the cats, or allow them an escape route??? I would have thought that 6 dogs should be enough of a discouragement and as for an escape route, I have a tiny min JRT that would happily use the escape route so not an option. Anyway they can just go out the way they came in as far as I'm concerned. The thing is, when they're being chased by 6 dogs they don't seem to be able to think about where to go, they do alot of crashing into walls and gates. I'm not saying I'd do any better if I was chased by 6 dogs:D

Unfortunatly the neighbour is not approachable at all, apart from having 7 of her own cats she feeds 13 feral cats and has 3 dogs, one of whom regularily wanders. She's not the full shilling as far as we can make out and every once in a while calls the council on us complaining there's someone living in our garage (!!!!) I assure you there isn't!

And as for excusing the risk of toxoplasmosis cos other animals have it too - well that's ridiculous. When I became pregnant I looked into health risks of being around animals (I have dogs, rabbits and sheep) and cats and the risk of toxoplasmosis kept coming up. They reckoned that most cat owners have had toxoplasmosis at some stage but mistook it for the flu so should be ok when they're pregnant but still shouldnt clean out litter trays as a precaution, never once did it say that other animals carry the same risk. So I think it's very unfair to say it doesn't make any difference, surely I should be able to choose to avoid cat poo and not have it thrust upon me by a neighbour?

To suggest people should have to discourage cats from sitting on their cars, or walls? Are you serious?? If it was a dog, or the local teenager sitting on your new car's bonnet I don't think the suggestion of putting a deterent there would go down well, it'd be a call to the dog's owner, or teenager's parents house and fair enough. I just want the same consideration from cat owners.

Peasant, it sounds like you live far enough away from people for your cats not to be a bother, fair enough.

I don't want this to be a dog versus cat debate, I disagree with dogs wandering, none of mine do, a different neighbour's dog poo's outside my house everyday and it drives me nuts but people seem to thing because I have dogs I don't have a right to complain about it. I pick up after every single one of my dogs when I have them out, they're well trained as I'm very aware I have a pack so I'm in charge all the time.

I just want the same consideration from cat owners as people want from dog owners, and I don't think that's unreasonable. I shouldn't have been upset because someone else's animal was creating trouble on my property

cianer

Discodog wrote: »

Regarding deterrents I have found the PIR sprinklers to be the best - just remember that it is there when you walk into your own garden !.

Don't forget I have dogs??? Hardly fair for them to be sprinkled every time they move because neighbour is irresponsible cat owner

Discodog

I have 2 dogs - both sighthounds so potential chasers & I do not have a cat.

I would hate to think that a cat could come into my garden & get hurt so I would do what I could to minimise the risk.

In reality the reason why people are suggesting that you discourage the cats is because you do not have a choice. Your neighbour is not going to do anything. Cat owners may sympathise but they are not your neighbour.

In the real world people are not going to approach the owner of a cat & complain. They will more likely throw something at the cat & then go indoors & make a fuss of their dog because they are an animal lover.

I have two reasons to not like cats, I work in gardens & I love wildlife (cats are the single biggest predator of birds). But I would never hurt a cat or blame it for ...being a cat !. I like cats just as I like all animals. It is not their fault that they are put into these situations.

peasant

cianer wrote: »

I just want the same consideration from cat owners as people want from dog owners, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

I think it would be fair(er) to say that you want the same consideration from this particular cat owner:

Unfortunatly the neighbour is not approachable at all, apart from having 7 of her own cats she feeds 13 feral cats and has 3 dogs, one of whom regularily wanders. She's not the full shilling as far as we can make out

and it also seems that you have a snowballs chance of getting it, unfortunately.

Due to your unreasonable neighbour, you have to deal with exceptional circumstances and I'm not sure what to advise to make it better ...but I really feel that this thread is getting an undertone of cat villification that is somewhat undeserved as far as individual moggies under normal circumstances are concerned.

biko

It happens. We have lots of cats around the area I live.
People with outdoor cats know they can get hurt/killed. Loose cats won't attack anyone so I don't really see much of an issue, besides the pooing of course

Kyri

Sorry just to the OP

Toxoplasmosis is a parasitic disease caused by the protozoan Toxoplasma gondii.[1] The parasite infects most genera of warm-blooded animals, including humans, but the primary host is the felid (cat) family. Animals are infected by eating infected meat, by ingestion of faeces of a cat that has itself recently been infected, or by transmission from mother to fetus. Cats have been shown as a major reservoir of this infection.[2]
Up to one third of the world's human population is estimated to carry a Toxoplasma infection.[3] The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention notes that overall seroprevalence in the United States as determined with specimens collected by the National Health and Nutritional Examination Survey (NHANES) between 1999 and 2004 was found to be 10.8%, with seroprevalence among women of childbearing age (15 to 44 years) of 11%.[4]


The reason if you do proper research into diseases that cats carry it the most is cos they tend to catch their prey where as dogs dont. Your dog can still carry that disease. Yes they may have got it from a cat that got it from a rat but your pet can carry and infect others with it. You yourself can also get it from eating meat that is undercooked and then pass it to your pet to(BBC Documentary into cat aids flu and Toxoplas).



However if you read more into you would see that Ireland does not have a high rate of this virus be it in pregancy or day to day. I was worried and still would be if I was pregnant tomorrow though I wouldnt want my dog or any animal that licks his ass to be licking my face if I was pregnant either.



There are alot of diseases that can be passed from dogs to humans along with the Roundworm, Tape Worm, Ringworm and any tick transferable disease so all pets can have virus's, disease's or other nasties that they can pass on. What I am saying to you was simply that by being a clean person (taking extra precautions when pregnant) and not doing the gardening then deciding to pick food from your teeth with your mucky hands is something that can stop you from contracting the disease.


I really do understand that you dont want the cat in your garden but I don't see why a rant about you not wanting to be responsible for your pets either is a solution. Your neighbour is crazy, you say she doesnt want to know so your retort is well if my pets rip your cat to shred its natural behaviour for them.



Just as you said it is not acceptable for that cat to be wandering it shouldnt imo be acceptable for you to think the best resolution is your animals killing another animal. It's not the cat that is letting itself out afterall. I would remember though that cats while trying to defend themselves tend to go for the eyes so just as I wouldnt like to see a cat being hurt I wouldnt like your dogs to be blinded and then have a post about that going on here when you said ah well they can do what nature intends.


Anyways I can't wait to get my pup to go with my kitties to start my lil family off.

cianer

Kyri wrote: »

Sorry just to the OP

I really do understand that you dont want the cat in your garden but I don't see why a rant about you not wanting to be responsible for your pets either is a solution. Your neighbour is crazy, you say she doesnt want to know so your retort is well if my pets rip your cat to shred its natural behaviour for them.

Where did I ever rant that I didnt want to be responsible for my pets? And how exactly do you think I'm not being responsible? My dogs are safely contained on my own property with no way of getting out to get cats.

Kyri wrote: »

Just as you said it is not acceptable for that cat to be wandering it shouldnt imo be acceptable for you to think the best resolution is your animals killing another animal.

I never once said I thought the best/any solution was for my dogs to kill another animal, in the origional post I said I didn't want to see any cat get hurt, particularily by my dogs.... hardly me thinking they should kill it is it?

Perhaps you should go back and read all the threads properly.

votejohn

Very interesting topic!

My two cents (as a dog lover) Its a very tricky topic. Yes, cats are very annoying to dogs, and dog owners, BUT dogs are obviously much more annoying to cats, and cat owners, as its unlikely that a cat will ever kill a dog.

My dogs go crazy when cats are in the garden, or had been while they are away, but I think they secretly enjoy it!

I cant see the situation changing any time soon, cats will always wander and dogs will always hate them. All anyone can do is, if the matter is really bothering their pets, is protect their own area. Cat owners have the option of keeping their cats indoors, or fencing in their garden like the previously posted pic, and dog owners can only do the same, fence in their garden to keep cats out!!!!

The Sweeper

To the OP: I'm sorry you had that experience. It's extremely distressing when your animals are in a fight with another animal - and the fact that you were calling your dogs off at all does prove you have consideration for the cat (after all, you weren't encouraging them).

I have five cats. They live indoors, with supervised outdoor access in an enclosed yard - the enclosing 6ft colorbond steel panel fence and gates isn't enough to prevent them roaming outside the yard if unsupervised, but it's enough to stop dogs getting into my yard and attacking my cats. I can guarantee you my cats haven't ever been in a neighbour's garden in the year I've lived here, because they are never, ever out of my sight if they're outside (and when I go back indoors, they go back indoors - I don't go inside until I've shooed them all back in first). Mostly I won't even let all five out at once, because I can't run after them in five directions if something happens.

I have good recall with my cats (bearing in mind they're cats, so there is always a caveat on that!) They know their names, and for the most part they will allow themselves be caught and shooed back indoors (sometimes I need to use food as a temptation).

Cats live quite happily as indoor animals. The optimal situation for them is an indoor/outdoor life, with the roaming restricted while they are outdoors, either by catproof fencing or by a purpose-built enclosure. Cats with unrestricted outdoor access face an endless stream of risks - hit by cars, attacked by dogs, attacked by people who hate cats, attacked by wildlife (more of a problem in some areas and countries than in others), poisoned, shot, fights with other cats that can spread terminal diseases like feline aids, feline leukaemia, and non-terminal conditions that are highly problematic - the corona virus (which can mutate into the invariably fatal feline infectious peritonitis); fleas, ringworm, herpes - the list goes on.

However, I didn't burst forth from the womb with this crazy-cat-lady wisdom. I had to learn - the difficult, expensive way - that cats with unrestricted outdoor access will break your heart. If you love your pet cat, and give it unrestricted outdoor access, you will pay vets bills to treat any of the above problems; you will wonder WTF happened to it when it comes home in a state one night, and at some stage it may not come home at all and you'll live the rest of your life wondering what happened to it - did it die instantly, did someone adopt it, was it loved until death or was it used as bait to blood fighting dogs?

So I agree - cats get a short deal. People get cats as a low maintenance pet, without realising that if you put in time and effort you get a brilliant animal - yes, very different to a dog, but also very rewarding. They can be trained, they will play, they will interact, they can be extremely social indeed, they're big furry clowns mostly because they retain much of their kittenhood behaviour when they're treated as pets and spend a lot of time with you indoors. They have personalities, habits, mood swings, preferences for food, toys, even receptacles to eat and drink out of. Yes they have a strong instinct to hunt - it's up to you to provide toys to keep that urge fulfilled without them destroying wildlife (or your furniture).

I also wish cat ownership was far, far stricter - and that's specifically because I like cats.

Discodog

Please understand that dogs don't hate cats or cats hate dogs. Both of my dogs were originally trained for coursing. My Saluki is now very tolerant of cats & my Greyhound is getting better. Many here have dogs & cats that get on very well. My old Boxer always shared his bed with four cats.

Most dogs can learn to accept cats. The key is often just the fact that a cat will run away which encourages a dog to chase. Personally I would always train any dog not to chase & I avoid ball games with my two. The OP would have a much harder task as any group of dogs will tend to revert to pack instinct & feed excitement to each other.

Thinkingaboutit

This is a silly thread. Even neutered cats will roam widely at will. Cats are not walked like dogs. They walk themselves. If someone is put out by some dog barking at a cat, they have the problem, not the cat or the dog. Walk it off. Cats cover their waste, dogs patently don't, nor do a lot of owners bother to clean up. I suppose this is Ireland and standards are accordingly low. Cats are very clean. If a person is worried about cat pee, they could wash their hands. The numbers of people in this country who never do that is amazing. A cat always enjoys standing near a dog someone is walking and making it go a bit beserk. My three cats live in a former boiler house fitted with a radiator connected to the central heating to keep them warm at night, so their wandering is limited to an extent. What annoys me intensely a fair bit is people who let dogs run into my garden after my cats. If they think that's funny, a sore dog won't be so funny.

Alicat

cianer wrote: »

So I want to know why cat owners think they get a free ride where their animals are concerned. You can guarantee if the cat is injured the owner will be at my door looking for vets fees - it's very unfair and I'll be telling her where to sling her hook. If I got ill from toxoplasmosis while gardening among the cat poo in my flowerbeds and asked her for doctor's fees she'd laugh at me. Why do cat owners think they have no responsible for their animal's actions?

TBH I'd think it was pretty ridiculous if you approached me with that. If you worry about getting ill from something that is quite common, you should be doing what you can to protect yourself, not trying to blame someone else. There are wild cats everywhere so this scenario does automatically equate to cat owners "getting an easy ride".

Generally cats are very harmless animals, when left to their own devices they tend not to bother anyone. They will often stay away from dogs who are vicious towards them, and if your neighbour's cat continues to come back he's very brazen! Plenty of cats and dogs get on very well together so just because your dogs don't, doesn't mean the cat owner is at fault. If your dogs are that aggravated by cats then maybe your garden needs to be secured a bit more.

However, if this cat does keep coming back I don't think it's your responsibility if something happens. IF the owner was to come blaming you and your dogs when the cat was clearly on your property, you'd be right to tell her to sling her hook. She'd be very unreasonable to do so. All you can do is alert her to the problem. If she chooses not to do anything then the ball is totally in her court. I know you wouldn't want to see the cat hurt but what can you do? Cats are not held under the same strict laws as dogs and there's not much you can do about it. Unfortunately your neighbour seems to be a bit of a nutter!

If I had an outdoor cat and knew that my neighbour's dogs were liable to rip it apart in their garden I would certainly be looking to secure my cat more. I have two cats but they are strictly indoors.

lightening

This is all a bit hysterical. There are products you can get to dissuade cats from your garden. Ok, you will have to spend a few bob, but thats life.

I'm not a cat lover, I don't dislike them, but I don't like what they do to wildlife.

There seems to be a real fear of toxoplasmosis on this thread. How many people here have suffered from this? I don't mean friends of friends or someone you heard of, I mean people on here who have suffered from it.

Discodog

The quoted US figures are 2 cases per 1000 but there is a caveat in that Cats are not the only or necessarily the prime cause. For example eating undercooked meat can cause it.

cianer

Perhaps someone should update the pregnancy websites and maternity hospitals, GP's etc because all I've heard about is that the main cause is cat's poo. If it's outdated info fair enough but for someone who has no cats to hear such constant emphesis on cat's poo it comes across a bit scary.

Undercooked meat doesnt apply as I'm vegetarian, but it never came up as an option anyway when I was being given warnings - no alcohol, unpasteurised cheese/dairy products etc Everyone just seems to harp on about cat poo being linked to toxoplasmosis.
Mind you, doesn't change the fact that I shouldn't have to put up with it in my garden. Poo from someone elses animal, buried or not, isn't pleasant. If my dogs were pooing in someone elses garden I'd expect them to be upset, and rightly so

Kyri

I think the problem is that when your pregnant they have to warn you about possible things you can catch - There are not many cases of this in Ireland so the sites you read may not have information that is relevant to our country. If you catch toxoplasmosis it's most dangerous to a human when it's in the womb and the most common way of contracting it is being around wild cats poo or cats that hunt as they catch if from live prey that is infected.

When I first heard of it I read to that its cats but when i read more into it and watching some documentaries on it you find out that it's something that you can catch from any animal and even by eating meat. Even as a vegatarian you could catch it by eating food in a restaurant where food contaminated by it was prepared in the same area. Something that is out of your control could give it to you.

If you read everything on the internet about what you can catch from animals be they wild or domesticated you'd never step foot in your garden as they can pass on virus's in soo many ways to us. Just like those adds where you see that germs can live for so many hours on a surface etc you cannot sterilize your whole home against any disease or virsus that could affect you when pregnant or not.

It doesnt take away from the fact though that a neighbours cat shouldnt be crapping in your garden but unfortunately as it is a garden wild animals can go to the loo where ever they want and can pass things like -
Toxocariasis, Weil’s disease, Hydatid disease & Sarcoptic Mange this is just some of the things you can catch from a fox using your garden as a loo.

I do apologise for my last post but i was reading this thread and got confused by who had posted that if their dogs killed a neighbours cat as it was their nature then it would be its own fault for trespassing or some thing similar.

Par72

cianer wrote: »

Perhaps someone should update the pregnancy websites and maternity hospitals, GP's etc because all I've heard about is that the main cause is cat's poo. If it's outdated info fair enough but for someone who has no cats to hear such constant emphesis on cat's poo it comes across a bit scary.

Undercooked meat doesnt apply as I'm vegetarian, but it never came up as an option anyway when I was being given warnings - no alcohol, unpasteurised cheese/dairy products etc Everyone just seems to harp on about cat poo being linked to toxoplasmosis.
Mind you, doesn't change the fact that I shouldn't have to put up with it in my garden. Poo from someone elses animal, buried or not, isn't pleasant. If my dogs were pooing in someone elses garden I'd expect them to be upset, and rightly so

Where do your six dogs do their poo? If the six of them are all crapping in your garden then I can't imagine the odd cat turd is going to make much difference.

cianer

My dogs don't bury their poo, I can see it so have precautions in place, not quite the same as putting my bare hands into my flower beds and coming across a squishy surprise :eek:

The Sweeper

Thinkingaboutit wrote: »

My three cats live in a former boiler house fitted with a radiator connected to the central heating to keep them warm at night, so their wandering is limited to an extent.

Unless you lock the cats in the former boiler at night, then their wandering is not limited at all. Just because your outdoor cats choose to stay near your house most of the time, that is no guarantee to say you won't get up one morning and find your numbers are minus one, and you'll never know what happened to it.

GigaByte

Birds **** all over your car, garden, house and your washing every single day and probably ****ted on you at some point but you never here anyone moan about birds ****?

GigaByte

Par72 wrote: »

Where do your six dogs do their poo? If the six of them are all crapping in your garden then I can't imagine the odd cat turd is going to make much difference.

Good point! Cats are extremely clean and spend most of the day cleaning themselves they wouldn't be likely to enter a back garden thats full of dog crap?

How much dog crap would 6 dogs produce in one day? The garden must be awful? Unless the grass is hose down all the time, must be a full time job that?

The Sweeper

To be fair to the OP, I think their initial post was shock and upset at the fact that the cat was in the garden and their dogs attacked it. This is about wandering cats, not specifically about cat poo - although cat crap in the garden is highly unpleasant. I get doubly pissed off when I discover cat sh1te all over my front flowerbeds, from my neighbours cats, when I don't allow mine to roam. Perhaps I should empty the contents of my litter trays over their gardens?

Royale with Cheese

I would have thought having 6 dogs would be a pretty good way to deter a cat from coming in to your garden. Has the cat been back since it was attacked?

cianer

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

I would have thought having 6 dogs would be a pretty good way to deter a cat from coming in to your garden. Has the cat been back since it was attacked?

I know! I would have thought the same myself, unfortunatly this is the second time I've seen this very cat get attacked in the garden, and my husband says he sees it in the garden most mornings before the dogs are let out. Maybe it's a particularily dumb cat?

You're right Sweeper - the post wasn't intended to deteriorate into whether it's ok for cats to poo in my garden (me owning my own animals who poo in my garden should be irrevelant, it's my choice), but I was genuinely upset seeing another animal attacked in my own garden when I work so hard to control my pack outside my house so this exact thing doesnt happen. I love all animals, cats may not be my favourite but I would never want to see them hurt or stand by and watch them getting hurt.