Cats in other people's gardens

Paul91

PCros wrote: »

Its in Section 1 of the Protection of Animals Act, 1911 if you want to read it.

you got a link to it? i'd like to have a read

Graces7

Ferals are a different matter; they are keyed to "feed and breed" and as we are seeing just now are aggressively territorial.

And by the third generation there is no trace of the domestic cat.

This one now is the first time a feral has persisted like this.

Previously we have had gentle wee cats coming for food.

One even came into our bathroom to die in peace.

The feral cat population here is growing fast though.

iguana wrote: »

I know two people who needed tetanus after being attacked and scratched by cats. They were told by the doctor/nurse that it's very, very common. I'm including a couple of links to a couple of news stories about it. What happened to me twice as a child and as a teen was in Ireland and is similar to the American article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-424841/Warning-Dangerous-Cat--attacked-13-people-years.html
http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_3646541

It's happened to my dogs twice in SW London. I will be walking past a house/car/tree and a cat leaps out jumps on one of my dogs' back and scratches at it's face eyes. This happened shortly after I moved here, so I suspect the cats used to use my garden and saw it as theirs so they resented my dogs moving in. Understandable from the cat's pov but frightening and frustrating for me. It's also completely ruined any chance I had of getting my dogs used to cats, they are immediately on alert when they see a cat now.

It's also happened to my my parents' dog and (sort-of) cat in Limerick, though I believe in their case the attacking cats are feral rather than wandering pets. I have also heard of wandering cats attacking other people's pet cats in their homes.



The cats were seen and sometimes caught by the hen owners. I know three hen owners in Limerick and London who have caught cats destroying their hens on many, many occasions. I'm not sure if the cats in Limerick were roaming pets or ferals, I doubt the ones in London were feral, but it was in an area with quite a lot of roaming pet cats.

Graces7

Depends on the location. We have done it both ways and I prefer that cats have access to the outdoors.

But we are in a very remote rural area so it is relatively safe.

And to see them race up trees is a wonder.

In a town it is different. Then yes, indoors.

cianer wrote: »

It's in a dog's nature to roam too, always has been, always will be, which is why rescues are getting in more and more problem dogs who have been cooped up in a back garden - they're not taken out and not allowed (rightly) to wander so they end up with behavioural problems. Just because it's against the law to let a dog wander and not to let a cat wander doesnt mean it's any less in a dog's nature to wander. Are we all cruel who only take our dogs out walking with us?

Plenty of apartment cats never get out and are perfectly happy if they're given stimulation. Maybe some cat owners are too lazy to play with their cats and give it the attention it needs for it to be happy as an indoors cat? I would have thought keeping your pet safe would have been above all else, and the fact is a free-roaming cat IS NOT safe

PCros

Paul91 wrote: »

you got a link to it? i'd like to have a read

http://www.dspca.ie/prevent_cruelty_to_animals.php?number=165&sectionnumber=32

enda1

PCros wrote: »

Yes it is illegal to poison cats but at the same time hard to prove if you did, the same with dogs getting poisoned around the place via rat poison.

Its in Section 1 of the Protection of Animals Act, 1911 if you want to read it.

I did have a read thanks!

http://www.veggieglobal.com/protection-of-animals-act-uk.htm#27

But couldn't find it under the irishstatutes link - they don't go back before 1922 so must use a British link...

So it appears it is not illegal to poison a cat if the poisoner has justifiable reason.

Offences of cruelty. 1.- (1) If any person--
(a) shall cruelly beat, kick; ill-treat, over-ride, over-drive, over-load, torture, infuriate, or terrify any animal, or shall cause or procure, or, being the owner, permit any animal to be so used, or shall, by wantonly or unreasonably doing or omitting to do any act, or causing or procuring the commission or omission of any act, cause any unnecessary suffering, or,being the owner, permit any unnecessary suffering to be so caused to any animal; or
(b) shall convey or carry, or cause or procure, or, being the owner, permit to be conveyed or carried, any animal in such manner or position as to cause that animal any unnecessary suffering; or
(c) shall cause, procure, or assist at the fighting or baiting of any animal; of shall keep, use, manage, or act or assist in the management of, any premises or place for the purpose, or partly for the purpose, of fighting or baiting any animal, or shall permit any premises or place to be so kept, managed, or used, or shall receive, or cause or procure any person to receive, money for the admission of any person to such premises or place; or
(d) shall wilfully, without any reasonable cause or excuse, administer, or cause or procure, or being the owner permit, such administration of, any poisonous or injurious drug or substance to any anima,l, or shall wilfully, without any reasonable cause or excuse, cause any such substance to be taken by any animal; or
(e) shall subject, or cause or procure, or being the owner permit, to be subjected, any animal to any operation which is performed without due care and humanity;

If you feel your health is at risk perhaps this is considered a reasonable excuse. I'm sure however some discussion with the owner would be needed before-hand to ensure there was no other possible course of action.

Graces7

Ever seen a dog climb a tree higher than a house after prey?

In this case a magpie... She scared it permanently... The cat I mean....and the loft is no problem.

Paul91 wrote: »

you ever seen a cat go down a rat/mouse/rabbit hole? i've seen terriers go down them, as for getting behind a couch, under beds that would be a piece of cake, even i can do that mice tend to hide behind skirting boards in lofts and basically places that are very secure - you got a cat that can get in behind the skirting boards or in the loft - love to see that

PCros

enda1 wrote: »

I did have a read thanks!

http://www.veggieglobal.com/protection-of-animals-act-uk.htm#27

But couldn't find it under the irishstatutes link - they don't go back before 1922 so must use a British link...

Thats British law....you live in Ireland!!

The Statute goes back to the 1800s and was written for the Irish Free State in 1922.

Also click on the link I posted before....

cianer

Graces7 wrote: »

Ever seen a dog climb a tree higher than a house after prey?

Unfortunately yes!! Mad, half feral street dog I have is an expert at going up..... not great at coming down though Ruins a lovely afternoon walk I can tell you when you're trying to climb the tree after the dog!

enda1

PCros wrote: »

Thats British law....you live in Ireland!!

The Statute goes back to the 1800s and was written for the Irish Free State in 1922.

Also click on the link I posted before....

Irish law is base don British law. We were the same country in 1911. You linked to the same law as me...

And actually I don't live in Ireland.

paddyland

I have two cats at home. One of them comes in to sleep and feed only. He would tear my house asunder if he was kept in. I know because I tried.

He has knocked over and broken everything that isn't nailed down, to the point where I had to remove every superfluous ornament and put away everything in the kitchen. He has torn my chairs to shreds, pulled the rubber out of the glass in the doors and windows, scraped the paint on my walls, eaten lumps of the carpet, and even though I have two heavy kitchen chairs barricading the waste bin, he has managed to pull it over and deposit the mouldy contents all across my living room! He knows the keys in the back door are something to do with getting out, and he leaps at them, but has no ability to open the door himself! So after bashing hell out of the keys dangling there, he starts howling and prancing round the room, tearing to bits anything he finds. When you open the door he flings himself outside, delighted!

He is the most funny and adorable cat ever, and loves being played with by small children, but is totally an outdoor cat. We are talking about being humane on this thread, well it would be inhumane to coop this cat inside, he would go berserk. I would love to know what suggestions will appear here about keeping this cat out of other people's gardens. Perhaps I should have him put down, or just let someone poison him, would that be suitable?

enda1

17. This Act in its application to Ireland shall be subject to the following modifications, namely:-

(1 ) (a) Section twenty-three of the Summary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Act, 1851 (which
gives a right of appeal) shall apply as respects any conviction or order under this Act (other than an order for the destruction of an animal), notwithstanding that the fine imposed does not exceed twenty shillings or that the term of imprisonment imposed does not exceed one month;

(b ) A reference to section twenty-four of the Petty Sessions (Ireland) Act, 1951, shall
be substituted for the reference to subsection (3) of section thirty-one of the Summary Jurisdiction Act, 1879.

(2) Nothing in section eight of this Act shall prevent owners or occupiers of land in Ireland from laying or causing o be laid any poison or poisonous matter as therein described, after a notice has been posted in a conspicuous place, and notice in writing has been given to the nearest constabulary station.

Interesting bit at the bottom of the link provided...

iguana

Graces7 wrote: »

Ever seen a dog climb a tree higher than a house after prey?

Yes. One of my dogs is adept at climbing trees. He's no cat but he's incredibly fast and agile. I suspect he may have been bitten by a radioactive spider at some point. He just runs up vertical surfaces. He can take a 6' wall from standing position and he can walk along the top of a narrow fence, flip 180º and walk back along it. He especially loves running up trees that grow next to out local river and running out on a branch over the water and diving off. He judges it bit by bit so he is aware of the depth of the water he jumps into.

My other dog is a bigger build so he has to run at a 6' wall to jump it, but he can do it. And he's never gotten more than 7/8' up a slanted tree. Springers are medium size dog and both of mine are small for the breed so their wall jumping is really impressive and extremely annoying. I have to top all my fences with trellises.

paddyland

I have two cats at home. One of them comes in to sleep and feed only. He would tear my house asunder if he was kept in. I know because I tried.

He has knocked over and broken everything that isn't nailed down, to the point where I had to remove every superfluous ornament and put away everything in the kitchen. He has torn my chairs to shreds, pulled the rubber out of the glass in the doors and windows, scraped the paint on my walls, eaten lumps of the carpet, and even though I have two heavy kitchen chairs barricading the waste bin, he has managed to pull it over and deposit the mouldy contents all across my living room! He knows the keys in the back door are something to do with getting out, and he leaps at them, but has no ability to open the door himself! So after bashing hell out of the keys dangling there, he starts howling and prancing round the room, tearing to bits anything he finds. When you open the door he flings himself outside, delighted!

He is the most funny and adorable cat ever, and loves being played with by small children, but is totally an outdoor cat. We are talking about being humane on this thread, well it would be inhumane to coop this cat inside, he would go berserk. I would love to know what suggestions will appear here about keeping this cat out of other people's gardens. Perhaps I should have him put down, or just let someone poison him, would that be suitable?

enda1

paddyland wrote: »

I have two cats at home. One of them comes in to sleep and feed only. He would tear my house asunder if he was kept in. I know because I tried.

He has knocked over and broken everything that isn't nailed down, to the point where I had to remove every superfluous ornament and put away everything in the kitchen. He has torn my chairs to shreds, pulled the rubber out of the glass in the doors and windows, scraped the paint on my walls, eaten lumps of the carpet, and even though I have two heavy kitchen chairs barricading the waste bin, he has managed to pull it over and deposit the mouldy contents all across my living room! He knows the keys in the back door are something to do with getting out, and he leaps at them, but has no ability to open the door himself! So after bashing hell out of the keys dangling there, he starts howling and prancing round the room, tearing to bits anything he finds. When you open the door he flings himself outside, delighted!

He is the most funny and adorable cat ever, and loves being played with by small children, but is totally an outdoor cat. We are talking about being humane on this thread, well it would be inhumane to coop this cat inside, he would go berserk. I would love to know what suggestions will appear here about keeping this cat out of other people's gardens. Perhaps I should have him put down, or just let someone poison him, would that be suitable?

To me it is not very sensible to keep cats as pets unless they are willing to be indoor pets/farm cats.

A pet should never wander freely in anyone else's property. If you can not keep you cat indoors and you don't have the outdoor space to contain it, don't keep a cat! Simple.

Graces7

You're kidding!

But then I hear re greyhounds and whippets doing crazy things too.

lol!

I never stay to watch the cats coming down... cannot bear to. Just walk quietly away and pray

This cat is black and white and on that occasion I thought at first it was the magpie as she peeped through the foliage.

cianer wrote: »

Unfortunately yes!! Mad, half feral street dog I have is an expert at going up..... not great at coming down though Ruins a lovely afternoon walk I can tell you when you're trying to climb the tree after the dog!

T-Square

cianer wrote: »

The original question wasn't what you can do to stop them wandering. The original question was why cat owners think they get a free ride where their animals are concerned.



So? That's not a valid reason or justification. Why not fence them in? Why let them out at all? "They aren't really trainable" is a cop out. Burmese Pythons aren't trainable either and you'd be hard pressed to find someone who thinks its reasonable to let one roam free.

It goes back a long way, but the logic behind the current laws are
1/ Cats bury their $hit in the ground, and don't defecate on the pavement
2/ Cats don't attack people or livestock, so no need to cage/leash them

cianer

enda1 wrote: »

A pet should never wander freely in anyone else's property.

Well said, couldnt agree more

Graces7

That, as paddyland and I agree, is one of those generalisations that do not work for all of us.

When I bred Siamese, they were always indoors, but the for the two rescues I have now it would be utterly cruel. We have had to keep them in eg the night before a move and it has been hard to see the distress.

Also one can open almost any window..

enda1 wrote: »

To me it is not very sensible to keep cats as pets unless they are willing to be indoor pets/farm cats.

A pet should never wander freely in anyone else's property. If you can not keep you cat indoors and you don't have the outdoor space to contain it, don't keep a cat! Simple.

Paul91

paddyland wrote: »

I have two cats at home. One of them comes in to sleep and feed only. He would tear my house asunder if he was kept in. I know because I tried.

He has knocked over and broken everything that isn't nailed down, to the point where I had to remove every superfluous ornament and put away everything in the kitchen. He has torn my chairs to shreds, pulled the rubber out of the glass in the doors and windows, scraped the paint on my walls, eaten lumps of the carpet, and even though I have two heavy kitchen chairs barricading the waste bin, he has managed to pull it over and deposit the mouldy contents all across my living room! He knows the keys in the back door are something to do with getting out, and he leaps at them, but has no ability to open the door himself! So after bashing hell out of the keys dangling there, he starts howling and prancing round the room, tearing to bits anything he finds. When you open the door he flings himself outside, delighted!

He is the most funny and adorable cat ever, and loves being played with by small children, but is totally an outdoor cat. We are talking about being humane on this thread, well it would be inhumane to coop this cat inside, he would go berserk. I would love to know what suggestions will appear here about keeping this cat out of other people's gardens. Perhaps I should have him put down, or just let someone poison him, would that be suitable?

so if i got a dog and he destroyed my house and garden you think it would be acceptable to leave him/her roam the neighbourhood? - oh wait i got three 12 week old puppies that have destroyed my garden and kitchen (thanks CSPCA) - i'll release them when i get home only messing, of course i wouldn't leave my babies loose to get hurt/stolen - they are my responsibility so i will just clean up the mess until i have them trained not too make it

PCros

enda1 wrote: »

Interesting bit at the bottom of the link provided...

Therefore you would have to let your neighbours know and the Gardai before putting poison down, most likley for use for farmers than in urban areas.

Would love to see a modern version written for this country, not ancient acts copied from the english.

T-Square

GigaByte wrote: »

Good point! Cats are extremely clean and spend most of the day cleaning themselves they wouldn't be likely to enter a back garden thats full of dog crap?

How much dog crap would 6 dogs produce in one day? The garden must be awful? Unless the grass is hose down all the time, must be a full time job that?

You expect us all to think some cat is sneaking into a garden with 6 crazy dogs,

just to take a dump?

:rolleyes:

cianer

T-Square wrote: »

It goes back a long way, but the logic behind the current laws are
1/ Cats bury their $hit in the ground, and don't defecate on the pavement
2/ Cats don't attack people or livestock, so no need to cage/leash them

So let them bury their $hit in their owner's garden, not mine. Dog owners who let their dogs defecate on the path need to be prosecuted, I hate this attitude too.

As was already said, cats can also attack people and dogs. And they decimate wildlife. But again, dogs attacking people and livestock should not be tolerated either. I don't think anyone here is saying it's ok for dog owners to behave irresponsibly. But neither is it a justification for cat owners to behave irresponsibly

Paul91

T-Square wrote: »

It goes back a long way, but the logic behind the current laws are
1/ Cats bury their $hit in the ground, and don't defecate on the pavement
2/ Cats don't attack people or livestock, so no need to cage/leash them

so back in 1911 that was the logic, now a hundered years later maybe it needs updating - not being funny but how many motor cars where there in 1910 Ireland? and how many cats to you see dead by the road side now?

also as previous posts have mentioned, cats do attack livestock and people

and as for the poop burrying - doesn't stop people digging into it when gardening, and not sure if they knew much about the toxi desease back in 1910?

PCros

T-Square wrote: »

You expect us all to think some cat is sneaking into a garden with 6 crazy dogs,

just to take a dump?

:rolleyes:

Hes a fookin rebel cat!:D

I think this is the cat in question.......http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2200359510_948d764fd0.jpg

PCros

cianer wrote: »

I don't think anyone here is saying it's ok for dog owners to behave irresponsibly. But neither is it a justification for cat owners to behave irresponsibly

So why didn't you start a fair thread about "cats and dogs in other peoples gardens"?

Paul91

PCros wrote: »

So why didn't you start a fair thread about "cats and dogs in other peoples gardens"?

cos it's CATS that are annoying the OP i assume as his/her garden is fenced off from dogs getting in/out

cianer

T-Square wrote: »

You expect us all to think some cat is sneaking into a garden with 6 crazy dogs,

just to take a dump?

:rolleyes:

Well I haven't asked it why it comes in

The why is irrevelant. And my dogs aren't crazy......

PCros

Paul91 wrote: »

cos it's CATS that are annoying the OP i assume as his/her garden is fenced off from dogs getting in/out

So he has a 5 - 6 foot wall in his front garden?

cianer

PCros wrote: »

So he has a 5 - 6 foot wall in his front garden?

I don't have a front garden, only a back one and it's 6ft all the way around the half acre I have.

paddyland

Paul91 wrote: »

so if i got a dog and he destroyed my house and garden you think it would be acceptable to leave him/her roam the neighbourhood? - oh wait i got three 12 week old puppies that have destroyed my garden and kitchen (thanks CSPCA) - i'll release them when i get home only messing, of course i wouldn't leave my babies loose to get hurt/stolen - they are my responsibility so i will just clean up the mess until i have them trained not too make it

You can train a dog. You can't train a cat. Two entirely different scenarios. The vast majority of cats roam at will and cause no trouble whatsoever. The OP has a particular situation with a neighbour which is thankfully not too regular. However he has managed to incite a thread full of anger and hatred. Honestly, you want to get over yourselves, there are serious issues in this country with regard to the behaviour of humans. A few cats are generally no harm at all.