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Pull cord on shower won't stay on any more

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    #32
    danjo
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭danjo


    2011 wrote: »
    Secondly, what is your concern?

    If you are going to take that approach then you should unplug every electrical appliance in the house when it is not in use and switch off every isolator. This will be a pain in the ass with you digibox, clock on appliances etc.

    Also you will have to turn off the isolator for your boiler making the timer pretty usless.

    Exactly. This is the very reason why the pull cord is installed in a very accessible position so it can be easily and safely used....therefore no pain in the ass. ;)


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    #33
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    .....and if the isolator is left on you concern is?


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    #34
    danjo
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭danjo


    2011 wrote: »
    .....and if the isolator is left on you concern is?

    Safety is the primary concern. Leaving a high current device energised in a largely unattended room in a domestic situation is an unnecessary fire risk.


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    #35
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    So you feel that the shower may become faulty, causing a current to flow, over heat and as a result go on fire? In theory I guess it is possible, and as you say it is a high current device. I have never seen this happen. What I have seen happen is isolators melt, go on fire and generally fail due to people operating them frequently. I would therefore believe that constant use of the isolator increases the chances of a fire creating an unnecessary fire risk. Each to their own.

    Personally I believe that the isolators are installed on fixed equipment for maintenance purposes only. They are also installed on low current domestic devices such as bathroom fans for the same reason. In industry many the same reasons apply and isolators are normally only used during routine maintenance and shut down.


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    #36
    davelerave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭davelerave


    Afaik fire and 'standby usage 'are the main reasons to switch off appliances(where practicable) in 'domestic situations'.The risk to persons and property with fire is greater with 'unattended' appliances.Appliances may also be accidentally switched on when left plugged in.The individual risk/standby usage is small for 1 appliance but multiply it by the number of appliances and other risk factors and it may be significant.


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    #37
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    davelerave wrote: »
    Afaik fire and 'standby usage 'are the main reasons to switch off appliances(where practicable) in 'domestic situations'.The risk to persons and property with fire is greater with 'unattended' appliances.Appliances may also be accidentally switched on when left plugged in.The individual risk/standby usage is small for 1 appliance but multiply it by the number of appliances and other risk factors and it may be significant.

    You have made some valid points, but it has nothing to do with instantaneous showers as they have no standby mode and can't really be switched on by mistake. When not in use they consume no power whatsoever even with the local isolator switched on.


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    #38
    danjo
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭danjo


    2011 wrote: »
    When not in use they consume no power whatsoever even with the local isolator switched on.

    This is not strictly true. Many showers have built in neon/led indicator circuits to show the presence of voltage on the unit. So there is a current, albeit small, flowing in the circuit.

    For manufacturers recommendation take a look at the installation pdf from Triton

    http://www.tritonshowers.ie/electric-showers/t150z-electric-shower.aspx

    3.9 states that the shower should be switched off at the isolation switch when not in use.


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    #39
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    danjo wrote: »
    This is not strictly true. Many showers have built in neon/led indicator circuits to show the presence of voltage on the unit. So there is a current, albeit small, flowing in the circuit.

    I am open to correction here, but as far as I know the Triton & the Mira instantaneous showers do not have this light on when the unit is turned off. The same applies to all other instantaneous showers that I have seen. Even so the current consumed by this type of indication lamp is in the mA range.

    For manufacturers recommendation take a look at the installation pdf from Triton

    http://www.tritonshowers.ie/electric-showers/t150z-electric-shower.aspx

    3.9 states that the shower should be switched off at the isolation switch when not in use.
    Interesting, and a point well made. However IMHO not turning off the isolator each time is the lesser of two evils. I believe this because as I stated earlier I have seen many burnt out isolation switches with melted connections due to their frequent use, but I have never seen or heard of a shower unit that has become a fire hazzard. Perhaps others have seen an instantaneous shower unit that had started to over heat? If it was correctly installed I would be surprised. I will bet that many have seen a melted isolator though!

    As I pointed out earlier an experienced electrical engineer I know agrees with you, but I still remain unconvinced!

    I think we shall agree to disagree!

    Happy Christmas


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    #40
    davelerave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭davelerave


    Afaik some have a power lite(to indicate power is present).
    The problem with isolator switches burning out or causing a fire hazard is down to installation/quality issues and misuse i would say.


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    #41
    danjo
    Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭danjo


    2011 wrote: »

    I think we shall agree to disagree!

    Happy Christmas

    Agreed.

    Have a Nice Christmas. :)


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    #42
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    davelerave wrote: »
    Afaik some have a power lite(to indicate power is present).
    Yes, but AFAIK it is only lit when the on/off switch on the shower unit is in the "on" position.

    The problem with isolator switches burning out or causing a fire hazard is down to installation/quality issues and misuse i would say.
    I agree, it often is.

    Regardless of your views on switching on and off, I think everyone will agree that spending an extra few euros on a good make like MK can make all the difference. Not only are they better quality, but theya are much easier to connect.


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    #43
    davelerave
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭davelerave


    The mira neons are lit to indicate voltage is present .
    Had to 'google' it but triton is same.


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    #44
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Bull76 wrote: »
    Hi,

    Sounds like the switch is faulty. It has to switch alot of current and as a mechanical switch has a limited number of cycles before it will fail.
    Firstly you or an Electrican preferable will have to isolate the power and remove the switch. Check for loose connections and arc mark's. But before that check for voltage at the switch... If voltage present and all connections were tight then it should be okay to isolate the power and remove the faulty switch and replace it with a similar rated switch. Should check for continunity on the old switch and then the new one to make sure all is okay.
    Great care should be taken here as it is a large current source and if your not experienced with electricity you are in harm. Ensure power is off before you attempt to go at the switch.


    The shower pull chord does`t really fail because of current, they rarely switch the shower load on and off, they are just not great mechanical devices as they do have to be capable of switching the shower load alright, and the string pulling mechanism is not as sturdy as a wall switch.

    The cooker switch type on the wall is definitely a better setup.

    Not much point in argueing over whether the pullchord is an isolation device or not, that does`t really matter, it still should be capable of operating as many times as if it was being used as a switch. It is an isolating device, its not rocket science, but it should be capable of being operated each time if the user feels like it. While electricians and instructors argue if the switches are isolators, the majority of users are not electricians and will switch off the pull chord after the shower is used.


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    #45
    jackreacher
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭jackreacher


    just to drag slightly off topic, fixed my shower pull cord myself. bought phase tester and new pull cord switch in homebase and took about 30 mins to do it. well proud i am. thanks for the help guys and gals


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    #46
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    I have a problem with my shower pull chord ,does not work,bought new one and still does not work,,checked fuse thats ok,,,,,,,,,getting peeved off ,,, any thoughts ,,many thanks.

    The shower works but only cold water.


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    #47
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Busta 46 wrote: »
    I have a problem with my shower pull chord ,does not work,bought new one and still does not work,,checked fuse thats ok,,,,,,,,,getting peeved off ,,, any thoughts ,,many thanks.

    The shower works but only cold water.

    If water is getting through, than power is getting through to the pump. Sounds unfortunately as if the internal heating element has burnt out...


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    #48
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .


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    #49
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Busta 46 wrote: »
    But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .

    Hmmm, not much you can do without first testing to see if power is getting up to the switch. Lift off the switch and check to see that power is getting up to it using a phase tester. The answer to that will narrow down the problem quite a bit.


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    #50
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    Was in the shower when the hot water went off ,,,the shower pull chord light went out and since the shower works but only cold water,,power is shown on getting to the switch.


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    #51
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Busta 46 wrote:
    But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .
    Busta 46 wrote: »
    Was in the shower when the hot water went off ,,,the shower pull chord light went out and since the shower works but only cold water,,power is shown on getting to the switch.

    Sorry, but I'm finding it a little hard to follow your posts... Can you see if power is getting to the pull-cord switch? Is there a little neon indicator in the switch that lights up??

    If there isn't, I'd unscrew the switch and check that power is getting to it. Don't assume that just because the light is not working that the wires aren't live - treat the switch as if it's powered up. You mention that you changed the switch out before - double check that you wired the switch properly and the retaining screws are properly tightened, with no bare copper showing.

    If you're getting power to the switch, then the problem is obviously downstream of that - i.e. the electric shower unit. No power means that the problem is upstream - somewhere between the breaker box and the switch.

    You mentioned in your earlier post that you "checked fuse thats ok" - which fuse did you check? Have you an older house with ceramic fuse holders, or a more modern circuit breaker box?? Check the shower breaker - it should have its own MCB. Also bear in mind that where showers have been retrofitted to older houses with fuse panels, the shower may have its own mini breaker box somewhere else in the house, outside the bathroom door or in the hall somewhere.


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    #52
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    The problem i thought i had was the pull chord ,,,,so i bought a new one from wickes,,,,it still does not work ,,,power is getting to the pull chord switch,,,,neon light does not come on,,,,,,,shower works but only cold water.


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    #53
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    I have a older house with ceramic fuse holders,,,,tested 45 amp fuse for the shower and its ok.


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    #54
    Tokyo
    Registered Users Posts: 22,655 ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Busta 46 wrote: »
    I have a older house with ceramic fuse holders,,,,tested 45 amp fuse for the shower and its ok.

    Honestly, I'd be pulling the switch back off and double checking my wiring. Check that power is entering the switch with a phase tester or meter, pull the switch to close the connection and check to see if power passes through the switch. Depending on the switch, the neon bulb has two fine wires that take their feed form the output of the switch - make sure that they haven't simply worked loose...

    IT would be unfortunate but not impossible if you picked up a dodgy replacement switch - you can check that it's working if you have a meter that can test for continuity, and checking both poles of the switch to see if they are being switched on and off.


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    #55
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,594 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Busta 46 wrote: »
    I have a problem with my shower pull chord ,does not work,bought new one and still does not work,,checked fuse thats ok,,,,,,,,,getting peeved off ,,, any thoughts ,,many thanks.

    The shower works but only cold water.

    What type of shower is it?
    Is it an instantaneous type (heats the water electrically) such as a Triton T90?
    ....or perpahs the water is heated by another means such as by gas or oil?


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    #56
    Busta 46
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Busta 46


    The shower is a 6 month old Gainsborough 10.5 ce electric shower.


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    #57
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    I dont think that particular shower has a solenoid valve to stop the water, so when electrical power is lost to the shower, water continues to flow, but goes cold. In most other showers , power loss results in water flow stopping also.

    If there is no neon lighting at the pull chord switch and it is a new one properly connected, the problem is probably at the MCB board. Very simple tests for an experienced person anyway, to find the problem.


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    #58
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    mike_ie wrote: »
    If water is getting through, than power is getting through to the pump.

    Probably not the case on this particular shower. I think it has no solenoid valve, or pump, just a push-button which operates an on/off water valve.


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