Job Losses

Mcloke

dfbemt wrote: »

Not the news anybody who bought during the 'tiger' wants to hear. Why do you think this will happen? How low do you think they will dive considering we are already at 2003 prices?

Unfortunately for people who bought during the 'tiger'...they have a very long way to fall in my opinion. I was not able but also not willing to buy during the tiger years and I am still very reluctant to buy at the moment as prices have not fallen nearly as far as they need to in my opinion. We are in a fairly bad way and salaries (both sectors) are being lost/cut, this can only lead to a fall in house prices as people are unable to afford/obtain mortgages of such insanity...many will struggle to afford what would have been regrded as modest mortgages. Houses will have to be repossessed (its a sad reality of the current economy) and the housing market find its natural levelling off which is far below the current prices. The problem is that again this country creates a smoke screen around actual house prices and there are no figures relating to the actual selling price only the asking price which means nothing in reality. I can personally say that this lack of clarity leaves me very distrusting of the housing market in general and is another factor putting me off buying in an unstable market.

Daithinski

ei.sdraob wrote: »

they all seem to have a diminishing payments system, you forget that people can live all their life here on welfare with all sorts of allowances

how about a better measure

AMOUNT SPEND ON WELFARE per YEAR / POPULATION

ireland:
17 billion (2008) / 4,500,000 = €3,777 per capita

What about this... although you come across quite arrogant and convinced that your opinion is right. probably nothing will change your one-track, closed mind.:(

A popular view that finds its way into pub conversations, page 4 of the ‘tabloids’, agonising phone-in shows, Dáil debates and elsewhere is that Irish social welfare rates are very high and cannot be ‘afforded’ (OK the claim that they were ‘the highest in Europe’ has been killed even if some people still pursue that untruth). Never let the data get in the way of a good story line.

http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2009/07/mythbusters-201-are-social-welfare.html

ei.sdraob

Daithinski wrote: »

What about this... although you come across quite arrogant and convinced that your opinion is right. probably nothing will change your one-track, closed mind.:(




http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2009/07/mythbusters-201-are-social-welfare.html

did you read the post?

the figures are 2006 and before

im asking for real sources and uptdodate figures

masteroftherealm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

they all seem to have a diminishing payments system, you forget that people can live all their life here on welfare with all sorts of allowances

how about a better measure

AMOUNT SPEND ON WELFARE per YEAR / POPULATION

ireland:
17 billion (2008) / 4,500,000 = €3,777 per capita

Im sorry did I not do what you asked, you told me to find a country that pays more than 204 there are 3 examples. Please respond to that....

ei.sdraob

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Im sorry did I not do what you asked, you told me to find a country that pays more than 204 there are 3 examples. Please respond to that....

and you did, but as i told you they dont pay these indefinitely as happens here, in these countries the rate goes down over time that doesn't happen here and there are many other benefits beside the 204 a week

so a practical measure is how much is spend totaly on welfare per capita

danman

A recent report stated that a married man with 2 kids (as is my case) would have to earn over 42,000euro to have the same standard of living as those on social welfare.

I earn 50,000euro. I work 55 hours and travel 210 miles from home on a monday and stay beside my job until friday, before travelling 210 miles home, for an extra 10,000euro.

The government must bring more people into the tax net tomorrow, then they have to lower social welfare, other wise, why bother working?

Daithinski

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so a practical measure is how much is spend totaly on welfare per capita

The total "per capita" spend on social welfare?

Are you arguing that this spend is too high? Its certainly not desirable.

However, its obviously going to be higher during a recession. Simple maths. Less jobs = more unemployment = higher per capita spend on welfare.

You are trying to spin it in some other direction. You seem to forget that there are real people at the end of these figures.

If the government were to work out how much money the unemployed get based on your reasoning there would be some serious problems.

Another famine would probably cause more problems than it would solve.

masteroftherealm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

fine please do tell us which other countries pay more than 204 euro a week in welfare or have an average PS wage of 60K (as per sticky in this forum)

any links and referenced info would be appreciated

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hence the overgenerous welfare and PS is a stimulus

I have shown with referenced fasts that Irish welfare is not overgenerous in comparison with the EU. Yet you still refuse to be swayed in your opinion.
If you dont accept facts what will you accept? SW Payments are not whats wrong wit this country mate. Much bigger problems than that.

masteroftherealm

danman wrote: »

A recent report stated that a married man with 2 kids (as is my case) would have to earn over 42,000euro to have the same standard of living as those on social welfare.

I earn 50,000euro. I work 55 hours and travel 210 miles from home on a monday and stay beside my job until friday, before travelling 210 miles home, for an extra 10,000euro.

The government must bring more people into the tax net tomorrow, then they have to lower social welfare, other wise, why bother working?

Source please.

Diarmuid

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Italy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Italy

I can keep going....

I wouldn't be using Italy as an example to support your point.

Only in Italy are benefits anywhere near as skimpy as in America and Britain, where new claimants receive just 28% of their previous earnings.

Daithinski

danman wrote: »

other wise, why bother working?

I think you might know this one...

danman wrote: »

for an extra 10,000euro.

Is this not reason enough?

masteroftherealm

Diarmuid wrote: »

I wouldn't be using Italy as an example to support your point.

To obtain up to 40% of the previous wages (for a maximum of around 1000 € monthly in 2007) for up to seven months, a worker must have been previously employed and enrolled for the insurance, and depositing contributions for at least 52 weeks in two years.

Sorry I was going by this statement which Ive seen multiple places.
If things have changed so be it but they were just token examples of an alternative system to illustrate a point.

Mcloke

Daithinski wrote: »

I think you might know this one...



Is this not reason enough?

Well if his statements are correct then €10,000 extra and being away from your family Monday to Friday versus €10,000 less and getting to spend your time with your two kids and spending each day as you wish may well be worth it in many peoples eyes...it depends how much value you put on family life versus how much value you put on what you get by working.

hinault

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what do you call the 50 odd billion entering the economy via welfare and PS every year?

if thats not a stimulus i dont know what is

That is not a stimulus.

hinault

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hahahaha

why dont you drive few hundred miles north and ask what their welfare is (65euro week €) or how much their teachers earn (24K € starting)

or just look into the OECD report in my sig to see how much these 2 sectors are overpaid by compared to just about everywhere else in the world

You're comparing apples with oranges : Northern Ireland is part of the UK economy.

In itself, Northern Ireland is a huge beneficiary of transfers from the UK economy throughout.

One in three of all jobs in Northern Ireland, are State/Semi State jobs.
And pray tell me who foots this bill? Correct the British taxpayer.

NI may pay lower amounts of social welfare than ROI.................strip away the State support from Westminster and the NI economy would be decimated.
No wonder welfare is lower up there - they absorb huge amount of tax funding 1/3 of all jobs in the jurisdiction.

Lirael

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Italy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Italy

Sweden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits_in_Sweden

Holland:
http://www.easyexpat.com/en/amsterdam/work/unemployment-benefits.htm


I can keep going....

in Italy lives more people so there is a bigger market, secondly Itlay lives off tourism so it is easier to find a job there

Sweden has a very high rate of taxes paid by people (up to 60%) so this is possible for their gvt to pay that high rate, and don't forget - Sweden is a country that is very protective for their citizens

I do not know anything about NL so I won't say

to compare in Poland unemployed get ca 135 euro per month for only a year and then they are kicked off


I think Ireland shall go the same way as Sweden, Italy and many other EU countries and start DECREASING payments for those who stay unemployed for more than let's say 1 year and then after let's say 5 yrs stop paying and place them somewhere

Daithinski

Mcloke wrote: »

Well if his statements are correct then €10,000 extra and being away from your family Monday to Friday versus €10,000 less and getting to spend your time with your two kids and spending each day as you wish may well be worth it in many peoples eyes...it depends how much value you put on family life versus how much value you put on what you get by working.

People can ask themselves this question, after they have asked the more important question of can I afford to get by without this 10k.

Another good question to ask is, will they be bothered when people are looking down their nose at them because their on the dole...

Mcloke wrote: »

and spending each day as you wish.

Oh yes, good point, the happy carefree life of the dole. I think the guy earning to 50k should pack in his job and sign on straight away. Just think of the joy and good times that will await him!

dfbemt

In addition to the 2 prominent job losses mentioned in the OP it is worth noting some of the many job losses which were announced in November

27th Nov - 103 jobs in Galway
26th Nov - 310 jobs in Cork and Sligo
26th Nov - 100 jobs in Dublin
26th Nov - 18 jobs in Dublin
25th Nov - 22 jobs in Waterford
23rd Nov - 172 jobs nationwide company
19th Nov - 100 jobs in Clare
19th Nov - 55 jobs in Kilkenny
19th Nov - 10 jobs in Cavan
13th Nov - 82 jobs in Dublin
12th Nov - 40 jobs in Limerick
11th Nov - 250 jobs in Sligo
11th Nov - 80 jobs in Tralee
9th Nov - 30 jobs in Donegal
7th Nov - 138 jobs in Galway
6th Nov - 70 jobs in Wexford
5th Nov - 80 jobs in Youghal
2nd Nov - 150 jobs in Clare

On the flip side, if you can call it that, the IDA have not managed to bring 1 single job to Limerick since Dell shut
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/IDA-fails-to-deliver-a.5843600.jp

All fairly depressing news in advance of tomorrows budget with worse expected in the New Year. Did Mr Lenihan say recently that we would not hit 500,000 unemployed ? I think he needs to revisit that statement

Mcloke

Daithinski wrote: »

People can ask themselves this question, after they have asked the more important question of can I afford to get by without this 10k.

As this person has stated that they live away from home Mon-Fri...you may find that the €10,000 is fairly used up on the extra accomodation needed but I do not know their circumstances beyond what was stated on here

Daithinski wrote: »

Another good question to ask is, will they be bothered when people are looking down their nose at them because their on the dole...

Yes Irish people really do need to grow up and start to realise they could well be joining the folks on the dole in the next few days, weeks, months etc and so looking down their nose at other people is simply childish. I know it happens but it is ridiculous.

Daithinski wrote: »

Oh yes, good point, the happy carefree life of the dole. I think the guy earning to 50k should pack in his job and sign on straight away. Just think of the joy and good times that will await him!

In fairness, I never said being on the dole was carefree, in fact I believe that the system in this country leaves people with very little support around finding new employment or how being unemployed might be affecting them mentally/emotionally etc. I have been on the dole myself in the past so I know exactly what it is like but I am also aware that when I was on the dole I was free to spend my days as I wished...yes I was looking for work and that takes some time but it does not take up all day everyday. The man has two children he does not see from Mon-Fri...are you trying to tell me that he would not appreciate spending more time with them.

Now I am not suggesting he leave his job as I do believe that being in employment is better than being on the dole for so many reasons but I can simply see the mans viewpoint

dfbemt

Some more losses this week

3rd Dec - 39 jobs lost in Waterford
8th Dec - 40 jobs lost in Dublin
9th Dec - 25 jobs lost in Ballinrobe
10th Dec - 20 jobs lost along Shannon Erne Waterway

But don't worry as Mr Lenihan says that the worst is over.

Oh no it isn't says Business World with on average 17% of employers saying they will shed staff in the New Year.

http://www.businessworld.ie/bworld/livenews.htm?a=2521864

Want to change your story Brian?

dfbemt

Haven't posted here in a while as I've been busy with the weather. Thought I would keep this thread going and continue with the job losses that I know about for January so far

1st January - 35 jobs gone in Dublin
5th January - 80 jobs gone in Dublin
5th January - 150 jobs gone in Nationwide company
5th January - 6 jobs gone in Waterford
8th January - 20 jobs gone in Waterford
11th January - 36 jobs gone in Monaghan
11th January - 2 jobs gone in Clare

Will update list as more are announced.

P. Breathnach

dfbemt wrote: »

Haven't posted here in a while as I've been busy with the weather. ...

The same guy who is causing all our job losses is also responsible for the bad weather. Maybe we should be relieved that you did not get the swine flu brief as well.

dfbemt

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The same guy who is causing all our job losses is also responsible for the bad weather. Maybe we should be relieved that you did not get the swine flu brief as well.

Careful sir, you might just get what you wish for :rolleyes: