Civil Service Reform - Cat's Out Of Bag

narwog81

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That not what Paul Krugman thinks. (ref article i posted above)

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

narwog81

seems plausible enough to me anyway... and soft regulation certainly didnt do us any good over the last 10 years.

anyway back OT

reform is necessary, however tarring all aspects of the public sector with the one brush is just wrong, believe it or not there are some organisations in the PS that have undergone substantial reform over the last 10 years and delivered on the benchmarking agreement

Sand

seems plausible enough to me anyway... and soft regulation certainly didnt do us any good over the last 10 years.

We didnt have soft regulation in this country for the past while. We had *no* regulation. It would not matter if the books were packed with laws, the Financial Regulator completely abdicated its responsibility - it never looked into issues, it was always the last to know when problems arose at the banks, and indeed the colluded with Anglo Irish in cooking the books. Theres at least one example I can think of where an internal auditor in AIB went to the Financial Regulator with concerns over overcharging in the bank, and his concerns were 1) ignored 2) buried. The Financial Regulator didnt catch a single thing at any of the banks over the past 10 years, they always had to rely on the news being leaked to the media first. They had no control or competence whatsoever. This ineptitude was dressed up as being light touch regulation, but that was a convenient fiction for both the banks and the regulator.

This isnt an example of "light touch" regulation, its an example of an inept, useless regulator.

T runner

OldFFail wrote: »

Now we know for certain, Public Service Reform was a myth. Despite a benchmarking process that has almost bankrupted the state, true reform never happened. The arrogance of David Begg and his Union colleagues, beggers belief. How dare he suggest that we now have a lost opportunity for reform.

We also know for certain that Brian Cowan is an out and out coward, whoever roars loudest gets their way. Next step is to face down the unions, once and for all. The GRA would be a good start. Jail the leadership for inciting a crime. You know how to make it happen - keep up the presure on the FF TD's.

I wonder how many of the self righteous private service people really have the country in mind.

If you shop in the North of Ireland thereby throwing away much income for the country in the form of VAT then please stop pontificating: you are a hypocrite, you care little for the countries future, you just want to blame someone.

jackthekipper

Sand wrote: »

We didnt have soft regulation in this country for the past while. We had *no* regulation. It would not matter if the books were packed with laws, the Financial Regulator completely abdicated its responsibility - it never looked into issues, it was always the last to know when problems arose at the banks, and indeed the colluded with Anglo Irish in cooking the books. Theres at least one example I can think of where an internal auditor in AIB went to the Financial Regulator with concerns over overcharging in the bank, and his concerns were 1) ignored 2) buried. The Financial Regulator didnt catch a single thing at any of the banks over the past 10 years, they always had to rely on the news being leaked to the media first. They had no control or competence whatsoever. This ineptitude was dressed up as being light touch regulation, but that was a convenient fiction for both the banks and the regulator.

This isnt an example of "light touch" regulation, its an example of an inept, useless regulator.

Have to correct you there; inept, useless, highly paid and surprisingly still in a job regulator.

thebman

Sand wrote: »

We didnt have soft regulation in this country for the past while. We had *no* regulation. It would not matter if the books were packed with laws, the Financial Regulator completely abdicated its responsibility - it never looked into issues, it was always the last to know when problems arose at the banks, and indeed the colluded with Anglo Irish in cooking the books. Theres at least one example I can think of where an internal auditor in AIB went to the Financial Regulator with concerns over overcharging in the bank, and his concerns were 1) ignored 2) buried. The Financial Regulator didnt catch a single thing at any of the banks over the past 10 years, they always had to rely on the news being leaked to the media first. They had no control or competence whatsoever. This ineptitude was dressed up as being light touch regulation, but that was a convenient fiction for both the banks and the regulator.

This isnt an example of "light touch" regulation, its an example of an inept, useless regulator.

We had worse than no regulation or light touch regulation, it was cosy regulation where the people know each other too well. Its the same problem in virtually all of Irish regulation.

I don't think we should have no regulation however as the banks can build themselves up to a point where they can threaten most of the economy, we need regulation in banking. We just need effective regulation and I don't think that is possible in Ireland. We have a single European currency and we should have pan-European support mechanisms for regulation to point out problems and police regulators in our own individual countries. An EU financial regulator watchdog if you will.

No regulation doesn't work IMO. Banks have shown how ruthless they can be on many occasions and you can say another bank will start up but IMO it is the very nature of the business of banking that requires their business practices which are less than pleasant so no bank will look good next to another when it comes to treating customers so there is no momentum to build up for a new bank to be seen as the "good guys". And it is very difficult to just start up a new bank.

I think better regulation is the answer.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Badboy1977

OldFFail wrote: »

Now we know for certain, Public Service Reform was a myth. Despite a benchmarking process that has almost bankrupted the state, true reform never happened. The arrogance of David Begg and his Union colleagues, beggers belief. How dare he suggest that we now have a lost opportunity for reform.

We also know for certain that Brian Cowan is an out and out coward, whoever roars loudest gets their way. Next step is to face down the unions, once and for all. The GRA would be a good start. Jail the leadership for inciting a crime. You know how to make it happen - keep up the presure on the FF TD's.

Is there any substance behind this rant? By its very nature reform is occurring all the time.Its the pace or type of reform that is under scrutiny. Anyway reform(these days) is shorthand for how we can squeeze savings out of a system. Benchmarking was about adjusting pay disparities and not just about change. We now have reverse benchmarking . It was quite short sighted of Cowen to dump the 12 day proposal as it was only Temporary and only simpletons would decide the unravelling of talks is a bonus.

Hillel

Scofflaw wrote: »

A reasonable suggestion following the current round of cuts. As it is, the country can't really afford to wait on such reform, or on the prolonged process of discovering whether they actually happened or only appeared to happen.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Exactly! Lets get the public sector pay bill back down to more sustainable levels. Then, lets go after proper public sector reform, as an alternative to further public sector cuts.

Just to be clear. This is not having a pop at public sector workers. (Indeed, once upon a time I was one.) Rather, it is recognizing the harsh reality that public sector pay cuts and reform are a necessary precursor to economic recovery.

OldFFail

Badboy1977 wrote: »

Is there any substance behind this rant? By its very nature reform is occurring all the time.Its the pace or type of reform that is under scrutiny. Anyway reform(these days) is shorthand for how we can squeeze savings out of a system. Benchmarking was about adjusting pay disparities and not just about change. We now have reverse benchmarking . It was quite short sighted of Cowen to dump the 12 day proposal as it was only Temporary and only simpletons would decide the unravelling of talks is a bonus.

Badboy1977, reform is about making things better for the customer (in this case the general public). Benchmarking was purely about the Greedy Public Servants, who wanted the rewards of the private sector, without any of the hard graft. Now the want to hold on to their undeserved gains and FU@K the rest of us.

Squeezing out savings??? Give us a break. No need for squeezing here, the low hanging fruit are over-ripe and overdue for plucking. Maybe the GPS's and Cowardly Cowen could go on a little plucking trip together. Brazen Bertie could hold the basket Ballsy Brian could turn the fruit into jelly.

Hillel

Badboy1977 wrote: »

.... only simpletons would decide the unravelling of talks is a bonus.

No, the general public got fed up geing taken for a ride, that's all.
Ploiticians will find it FAR more difficult to pull the wool over their eyes, in future.

ParkRunner

Hillel wrote: »

Exactly! Lets get the public sector pay bill back down to more sustainable levels. Then, lets go after proper public sector reform, as an alternative to further public sector cuts.

Just to be clear. This is not having a pop at public sector workers. (Indeed, once upon a time I was one.) Rather, it is recognizing the harsh reality that public sector pay cuts and reform are a necessary precursor to economic recovery.

I would love to see this too but I predict a few weeks before the budget next year and after another handful of reports have been issued with nothing done we will be back where we are now. The public sector wants reform, believe me, there is just no leadership in this country to implement it. The responsibility was about to be delegated to yet another independent body so the govt could wash their hands of any setbacks.

T runner

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I dont really know how you can stand on a picket line and be in the North at the same time, and every striking worker stood on the picket line that day. Your implication that this was a shopping spree is ofcourse completely without substantiation either by the Irish media or every nose ringed fool who does not seek substantiattion for sensationalist stories.

The point here is about hypocrisy. Let those without sin cast the first stone etc.

The argument that the public service should take a pay hit "for the good of the country" cannot be made without hypocrisy by someone who shops in the North for the good of themselves and the UK.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

ParkRunner

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Is this not complete hypocrisy, criticising people for shopping in the North but doing the exact same thing yourself?

oscarBravo

T runner wrote: »

...every striking worker stood on the picket line that day.

So not one single public servant went shopping in Northern Ireland?

You can back up that assertion, I'm sure?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Hillel

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If I read another post you made correctly, you received a subsidized primary, second level and undergraduate education from this state. Maybe its time you did your bit in return??

thebman

Hillel wrote: »

If I read another post you made correctly, you received a subsidized primary, second level and undergraduate education from this state. Maybe its time you did your bit in return??

Given his ideals if the state gave him the option to abstain, he probably would have taken it if he was old enough.

Besides he pays tax on his wages doesn't he?

ParkRunner

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If the Irish taxpayer doesnt pay your salary who does? Will you move back to spending in the ROI after todays cuts?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

OldFFail

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Some Band-Aid :eek:

What happens when it fails?

OldFFail

Didn't Brian do good yesterday.
If the lazy fecker's in the Public Service don't work, cut their wages.
If they won't implement the necessary changes, cut their wages even more, next year. They'll get the message, eventually.

Now for next steps:

Jail the GRA leadership.
Knock another couple of % off teachers who refuse to do out of hours meetings with parents.
Put in cameras to monitor nurses stations in hospitals. Sack any lazy bitch who sits on her arse for most of her shift.
Outlaw double jobbing by Public Servants with big fines for those who are caught.

Have a new TV show, for Public Servants, only.
Allow the public to pick the most underperforming a$$ole.
Pick someone by public lottery to ride the arse off him/her.
(They've been doing it to us for years.)
Have TV Specials, for politicians only, on public holidays.
Let any priest who wants, ride the arse off all of them.
(They didn't protect the children, time they took it up the back passage!)

TCP/IP_King

Hillel wrote: »

It is absolute disgrace, that all this was not delivered already as part of Benchmarking, phase one. It proves that the whole process was a sham. Designed by a powerful elite to look after their own. It is an indictement of the FF administration and the Partnership process.

Bullsh1t - I do most of my transactions with government departments online. That's a huge transformation for a paperbound organisation 5 years ago !!

OldFFail

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

Bullsh1t - I do most of my transactions with government departments online. That's a huge transformation for a paperbound organisation 5 years ago !!

Only a government employee or supplier to a government dept would consider this a "hugh transformation". Off to my new TV show, where I hope you encounter something equally hugh.