Possible Garda Strike

Rb

gandalf wrote: »

The first company got taken over all bar 2 were let go

Off-topic but was that an architects company?

Someone should take Pah up on his offer of being in the guards for a week.

pah

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

The pay is there for all to see it's no secret. Also Jimmy I know the kind of person you are talking about but I have to say there has been a big shift in the organisational culture in the Gardaí. Over 50% of serving members have less than 7 years service and there are very few of these members of the mindset that you have described above.

gurramok

pah wrote: »

I wouldn't call buying a house to support my wife and 2 kids a "foray into the property market" It was a neccessity.

I am not spending on luxuries, neither do I expect "the rest of us" to pay for anything that I owe.

The same argument could be used to argue that the public sector should not be expected to pay for "the rest of us". I am willing to pay my fair share, absolutely.

Ever hear of renting?

Your problem is not your wages, its your debt where you overextended yourself. What you did with your money is not the employers business as you are free to spend what you like on what wage you obtain hence likewise its not your employers problem that you are struggling despite been on good wages.

Ironically, you're not the first public sector poster where the mortgage is the real issue rather than the cuts themselves which is where the financial hurt really is.

gandalf

Rb wrote: »

Off-topic but was that an architects company?

Nope.

Someone should take Pah up on his offer of being in the guards for a week.

I would love to but then I would lose the job if I took a week off.

Fuhrer

Guards have a pretty decent wage and benefits package.



The question is, would you want to see Guards scraping by?


Some local drug dealer walks up, hey Bud, hear times are tough, take a few quid and avoid this apartment block for a few days etc.

jimmmy

pah wrote: »

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

The pay is there for all to see it's no secret. Also Jimmy I know the kind of person you are talking about but I have to say there has been a big shift in the organisational culture in the Gardaí. Over 50% of serving members have less than 7 years service and there are very few of these members of the mindset that you have described above.

I know there are a lot of young Gardai - you say that " Over 50% of serving members have less than 7 years service". Do you not think that the average Gardai earnings of 60k are excessive, considering the state of the countries finances, and considering so many Gardai are so young ?

For the record, I am sure there are many members who would be hard working , and do not doss , do their business on Garda time etc etc

prinz

gurramok wrote: »

Ever hear of renting?
Ironically, you're not the first public sector poster where the mortgage is the real issue rather than the cuts themselves which is where the financial hurt really is.

It's not ironic, seeing as how it's the first complaint of almost everyone, public and private.

Fuhrer

jimmmy wrote: »

For the record, I am sure there are many members who would be hard working , and do not doss , do their business on Garda time etc etc

Are you always so generous with your compliments?

gandalf

gurramok wrote: »

Ironically, you're not the first public sector poster where the mortgage is the real issue rather than the cuts themselves which is where the financial hurt really is.

Bear in mind as well the pain hasn't really hit on the mortgage side yet either. Our interest rates are at historic lows but given another couple of quarters growth in Germany and France and the ECB will be raising them to stave off inflation in the whole EU. Then repayments will shoot up and the real pain is going to start, unfortunately none of us has seen the worst yet!

prinz

jimmmy wrote: »

I know there are a lot of young Gardai - you say that " Over 50% of serving members have less than 7 years service". Do you not think that the average Gardai earnings of 60k are excessive, considering the state of the countries finances, and considering so many Gardai are so young ?

Have you even looked at the payscales? How many of that 50% do you figure are earning 60k?

jimmmy

prinz wrote: »

Have you even looked at the payscales?

Yes. Do not forget allowances - did you hear the feature on the
Pat Kenny show show this morning, where they talking about the 57 ( yes , 57 ) different allowances they are entitled to.....
eg availibility allowance of between 8 to 11 k a year if you are available outside normal hours, ; gaeltacht allowance ; aran islands allowance ; boot allowance , plain clothes allowance , dog-handlers allowance, lanzarote allowance, etc ...

prinz wrote: »

How many of that 50% do you figure are earning 60k?

Ask the CSO that, they are the ones who say average Garda earnings are 60k a year. They should know, the government pays them.

pah

gurramok wrote: »

Ever hear of renting?

Your problem is not your wages, its your debt where you overextended yourself. What you did with your money is not the employers business as you are free to spend what you like on what wage you obtain hence likewise its not your employers problem that you are struggling despite been on good wages.

Ironically, you're not the first public sector poster where the mortgage is the real issue rather than the cuts themselves which is where the financial hurt really is.

Look I agree with you to a point. I have heard of renting and did so for 2 years before buying. It was in fact my good wage and job security that helped to secure the mortgage. However we did not overextend ourselves at the time of getting the mortgage. My wife and I have since had the health and income levies imposed and the pension levy myself which has seen €700 a month coming out of our budget. This we didn't see coming and although we are overextended now we certainly were not 3 years ago, before these cuts

prinz

jimmmy wrote: »

Yes. Do not forget allowances - did you hear the feature on the
Pat Kenny show show this morning, where they talking about the 57 ( yes , 57 ) different allowances they are entitled to.....
eg availibility allowance of between 8 to 11 k a year if you are available outside normal hours, ; gaeltacht allowance ; aran islands allowance ; boot allowance , plain clothes allowance , dog-handlers allowance, lanzarote allowance, etc ...

A garda might get a handful of those allowances :rolleyes: Your 'average' uniformed garda in store st., won't get the gaeltacht, won't get the aran islands, won't get the plainclothes, won't get the dog-handlers etc etc..

pah

jimmmy wrote: »

Yes. Do not forget allowances - did you hear the feature on the
Pat Kenny show show this morning, where they talking about the 57 ( yes , 57 ) different allowances they are entitled to.....
eg availibility allowance of between 8 to 11 k a year if you are available outside normal hours, ; gaeltacht allowance ; aran islands allowance ; boot allowance , plain clothes allowance , dog-handlers allowance, lanzarote allowance, etc ...



Ask the CSO that, they are the ones who say average Garda earnings are 60k a year. They should know, the government pays them.

Well being from Cork on a regular Garda Unit Jimmy I don't get gaeltacht, aran islands, dog handlers or even lanzarote allowance.

If there are 57 allowances that doesn't mean every member is entitled to them as you suggest.

I receive uniform/boot allowance and night/weekend allowance. That's all. And I'm entitled to it and I work hard for it. See my shift rotation that I've described above.

How many Gardaí are based in the aran islands/Gaeltacht/Lanzarote or have dogs? Out of 13,000 it really is quite a small number.

Sesshoumaru

pah wrote: »

I wouldn't call buying a house to support my wife and 2 kids a "foray into the property market" It was a neccessity.

I am not spending on luxuries, neither do I expect "the rest of us" to pay for anything that I owe.

My wife and I have a daughter who is now almost 3 years old and at the time my daughter was born we lived with my parents. I decided in 2001 that I wasn't going to buy property until the bubble burst and that wasn't going to stop me having a family either!

We only moved out of my parents home 6 months ago. We now rent a nice 3 bed semi for reasonable money and I can expect rent to keep falling over the next year at least. Maybe when prices reach normal levels we might consider buying.

But we certainly never had to buy a house as a "necessity". For sure it would have been more comfortable at times to own our own home before we had our first child, but we were never forced to buy. No one was forced to buy, there are always alternatives e.g. renting, living with parents etc

Now even with pay cuts my salary is still decent enough and I am totally debt free. Not a single loan or credit card debt to my name. But I'll be damned if I have to pay more for other peoples foolish financial decisions!

jimmmy

prinz wrote: »

A garda might get a handful of those allowances

who cares the nitty gritty of what different individuals in the Gardai gets : the average Garda has earnings of 60k a year ( according to the CSO ), and the country simply cannot afford it.

pah

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

But I'll be damned if I have to pay more for other peoples foolish financial decisions!

In a nutshell that is the Public Sectors entire argument against Cuts to Public Sector Wages.

I'm with you 100% :rolleyes:

jimmmy

Reminds me of someone who said on the radio today " It is the public sectors arrogant selfish sense of entitlement which is quite astonishing."

prinz

jimmmy wrote: »

who cares the nitty gritty of what different individuals in the Gardai gets......

who cares if individuals in the private sector lose their jobs.... yadda yadda. I never argued that we don't need cuts but the rest of it is just tabloid rubbish headline crap.

gandalf

pah wrote: »

Look I agree with you to a point. I have heard of renting and did so for 2 years before buying. It was in fact my good wage and job security that helped to secure the mortgage. However we did not overextend ourselves at the time of getting the mortgage. My wife and I have since had the health and income levies imposed and the pension levy myself which has seen €700 a month coming out of our budget. This we didn't see coming and although we are overextended now we certainly were not 3 years ago, before these cuts

But Interest rates were alot higher back then too. I know my mortgage is an awful lot less than it was 3 years ago?

Depending on your level of Mortgage they could have been 500 Euros a month more.

What happens when the rates start to rise next year?

Do you want the Government to cover that amount?

Sesshoumaru

pah wrote: »

In a nutshell that is the Public Sectors entire argument against Cuts to Public Sector Wages.

I'm with you 100% :rolleyes:

Great argument there! Completely ignore the fact that I started a family without having to buy overpriced property :rolleyes:

Fact is you've been asked to make a contribution towards your pension, I on the other hand have had an actual pay cut. Your sob story about having to pay for your mortgage means nothing to me. You admit you are on good wages, if you were renting now, you'd be looking forward to rent reductions and falling property prices. Instead you made a bad financial decision and bought into an obvious property bubble. Now what are you going to do when ECB raises interest rates? Go on strike for pay increases? :rolleyes:

Both my wife and I have taken pay cuts and have to pay far more towards the cost of our pensions. I also don't want my daughter or any other future kids of mine having to pay in their taxes(20 years from now) for the cost of your wages today. I'm sure I saw somewhere that next year for every 7 euros collected in taxes 1 euro of that will go towards servicing the expanding national debt.

But hey go on strike! I'm starting to hope this greedy little ****hole of a country just goes bankrupt. I'm hoping the IMF takes a death scythe to public sector expenditure in this country.

pah

gandalf wrote: »

But Interest rates were alot higher back then too. I know my mortgage is an awful lot less than it was 3 years ago?

Depending on your level of Mortgage they could have been 500 Euros a month more.

What happens when the rates start to rise next year?

Do you want the Government to cover that amount?

The curse of the fixed rate mortgage my grey haired friend.

I have already stated categorically that I don't want anybody paying for what I owe and wouldn't expect or want the Govt to cover anything.

I'm posting here to vent some frustration and to add my perspective to the discussion. It's not like I think Brian Coward is going to read it and cancel the budget :eek:

jimmmy wrote: »

Reminds me of someone who said on the radio today " It is the public sectors arrogant selfish sense of entitlement which is quite astonishing."

Who reminds you?

gandalf

pah wrote: »

The curse of the fixed rate mortgage my grey haired friend.

I have already stated categorically that I don't want anybody paying for what I owe and wouldn't expect or want the Govt to cover anything.

I'm posting here to vent some frustration and to add my perspective to the discussion. It's not like I think Brian Coward is going to read it and cancel the budget :eek:

We are all allowed to vent and yes I went with a Tracker mortgage so I am a very lucky git!

And less of the grey hairs there are only one or two (I look young for my age!).

pah

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Great argument there! Completely ignore the fact that I started a family without having to buy overpriced property :rolleyes:

Fact is you've been asked to make a contribution towards your pension, I on the other hand have had an actual pay cut. Your sob story about having to pay for your mortgage means nothing to me. You admit you are on good wages, if you were renting now, you'd be looking forward to rent reductions and falling property prices. Instead you made a bad financial decision and bought into an obvious property bubble. Now what are you going to do when ECB raises interest rates? Go on strike for pay increases? :rolleyes:

Both my wife and I have taken pay cuts and have to pay far more towards the cost of our pensions. I also don't want my daughter or any other future kids of mine having to pay in their taxes(20 years from now) for the cost of your wages today. I'm sure I saw somewhere that next year for every 7 euros collected in taxes 1 euro of that will go towards servicing the expanding national debt.

But hey go on strike! I'm starting to hope this greedy little ****hole of a country just goes bankrupt. I'm hoping the IMF takes a death scythe to public sector expenditure in this country.

I genuinely hope I haven't come across as a poor aul public servant with a sob story!! That wasn't my intention.

I understand what you mean about me buying into the bubble but at the time prices were still on the up and it didn't look like it was ready to burst. A poor decision maybe but both my wife and I were of the opinion that renting was "dead money" and we made the decision to buy. If only we were as enlightened as you!! Even if we had gone for a variable rate we wouldn't be so bad. It's a combination of different factors really that has led to money being so tight.

Call it naivety or call it poor financial decesion making it doesn't really matter. That's the position I'm in now and have to deal with it.

BTW I was already contributing €80 p.w to my pension now it's closer to €200 p.w. Hey that's fine it's an increased pension contribution I'm OK with that, I'll see it in 27 years I guess. Again it doesn't change the fact I'm down cash every week.

pah

gandalf wrote: »

We are all allowed to vent and yes I went with a Tracker mortgage so I am a very lucky git!

And less of the grey hairs there are only one or two (I look young for my age!).

Apologies Gandalf I assumed you hadn't fallen into the pit at Moria yet!

Maybe three years ago you could have given me some good advice -
Fly you Fools

narwog81

RedPlanet wrote: »

And what neccessity dictated you had to over-bid on an over-valued house in the thick of a property boom?

very easy to say now with the benefit of late 2009 apocalyptic post NAMA hindsight!

sure if the gardai are as stupid as jimmy reckons then what chance did they have of recognising a property boom when practically every economist in the country didnt! sure even the ECB predicted growth of 3.5% for Ireland for 2009:D

jimmmy

narwog81 wrote: »

sure if the gardai are as stupid as jimmy reckons

I never commented or measured their stupidity or otherwise - that is of little or no concern. What is relevant is thie excessive earnings + the countries inability to pay them.

ddef

I did work experience in school with the gardaì.
They do nothing. They have it so bloody east, it's almost rediculous they get paid half what they are now.
The military on the other hand, they work 10 times as hard as the gaurds, for around the same pay. But they get on with their work because ITS THEIR JOB.

pah

ddef wrote: »

I did work experience in school with the gardaì.
They do nothing. They have it so bloody east, it's almost rediculous they get paid half what they are now.
The military on the other hand, they work 10 times as hard as the gaurds, for around the same pay. But they get on with their work because ITS THEIR JOB.

When and where did you do this work experience with the gaurds
Was it 9-5 in the office or what??

Bigdeadlydave

pah wrote: »

When and where did you do this work experience with the gaurds
Was it 9-5 in the office or what??

A few of my friends did work experience with the Gardai. In TY.