Possible Garda Strike

pah

Yeah there's a guy in the station with us at the moment but he's in the Sgts office being shown a bit about PULSE and Files but he won't be out in the car or anything, that'd never happen.

I'd be surprised if Ddef was out of the station it would be unusual.

ddef

no i was in the car. walked around the streets. tried to make it exciting by bringing me to some "dodgy" areas. but try it was a sunday drive and a stroll in the park. Sorry, but gaurds don't have a right to go on strike. The should learn from their Military counterparts.

narwog81

jimmmy wrote: »

I never commented or measured their stupidity or otherwise - that is of little or no concern.quote]

jimmmy wrote: »

The lads I knew who joined it, were not the brightest at school, nor did they ever study all that hard. Believe it or not, some people were too ambitous than just to be Gardai

hmmm...

narwog81

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Instead you made a bad financial decision and bought into an obvious property bubble.

obvious to who? why didnt you tell anyone back in 2001 about this obvious bubble. it was only really taking off then, you could have stoppped it;)

whatever about slating PS sector workers, hey its fun to do on the internet, but this sort of revisionism whereby decent hardworking people who were advised that "now is the time to buy" and "get on the property ladder" are now characterised as idiots and fools for fuelling the 'obvious' bubble is very disengenous and doesn't really add anything to the debate.

douglashyde

TheNog wrote: »

The different allowances reflect the different needs of each job.



What is this huge number you speak of? How many Gardai actually own second or more properties? It would be reasonable to say that some Gardai own second properties. Same as engineers, technicians, doctors etc etc

Garda are a lot less qualified than doctors and engineers for one.

Seen an article to today in the Indo about how a large amount of garda retiring file as millionares.

And what exactally is a boot allowance for? Because the boots the garda wear are paid for by the taxpayer.

This is the problem with the Public Sector..... and it's vile

redarse

FTA69 wrote: »

Personally I find the whole prospect gas. If turbulence ever erupts in this country between working-class people whether in the form of marches, strikes etc it'll be the cops on the frontline dealing with that; and now the law-enforcement types are the ones threatening to break the law that they signed up to enforce! A small bit of a paradox to say the least.

Joining the cops is a small bit like joining the military, you're explicitly consenting to be the armed wing (of sorts) of the state etc, and with that decision comes responsibilities as well as rights. So no sympathy here from me anyway.

Then again I've never been the biggest fan of John Law so perhaps I'm a small bit biased.

So just because the gardai and the military are the 'armed wing' of the government thay deserve not to have their voices heard with regard to their pay and conditions??? Did I fall asleep and wake up in a Stalin type Communist State????!!!

douglashyde

redarse wrote: »

So just because the gardai and the military are the 'armed wing' of the government thay deserve not to have their voices heard with regard to their pay and conditions??? Did I fall asleep and wake up in a Stalin type Communist State????!!!

No,

But garda DONT have a right to strike, as it is specfically mentioned in the Irish Constitution.

redarse

they do have a right as a representative association to see what thier members opinions are on the issue though. As a person who supports the Gardai, tough job and all that, I will be very suprised if they go on stike. Although there might be another dose of the 'Blue Flu' as in '98.

Macroom Man

Overweight and Overpaid.
our local Garda retires this week and has a new job lined up already, driving a school bus. Full pension plus a new salary!

Northern Ireland's police force was reorganised and reshaped; the Republic needs to do the same.

ddef

redarse wrote: »

So just because the gardai and the military are the 'armed wing' of the government thay deserve not to have their voices heard with regard to their pay and conditions??? Did I fall asleep and wake up in a Stalin type Communist State????!!!

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but the
Military are getting on with their work; they made a commitment, took oaths and have a sense of pride and dignity.
Tbh, weither it seems communist or undemocratic, the army should enforce Marshall law. Let this country be policed by a real force, not a bunch of whiny, lazy, law breaking idiots.

prinz

douglashyde wrote: »

Seen an article to today in the Indo about how a large amount of garda retiring file as millionares.

Maybe you should have read it then, seems you don't have a grasp of what it actually said.

mrmanire

douglashyde wrote: »

No,

But garda DONT have a right to strike, as it is specfically mentioned in the Irish Constitution.

Not in the constitution but in the Garda Siochana Act. Also I don't think the state can be compared to a totalitarian one. When a persons chooses being a Garda as a career they should probably have investigated aspects of their job such as the right to strike! To be honest I think a possible Garda strike is a far more serious matter for the state than a few mortgages and the value of a Garda's pension. Whilst many families are suffering greatly during these tough times; the integrity of the state must come first. No strike.

Grudaire

mrmanire wrote: »

the integrity of the state must come first. No strike.

The what now in the where what?

This state has integrity? Where?

mrmanire

ddef wrote: »

I don't mean to sound like a broken record, but the
Military are getting on with their work; they made a commitment, took oaths and have a sense of pride and dignity.
Tbh, weither it seems communist or undemocratic, the army should enforce Marshall law. Let this country be policed by a real force, not a bunch of whiny, lazy, law breaking idiots.

And martial law; about the worst thing that can happen in a state. You are clearly an ex-military man. Young lads with guns on the streets enforcing the law! Great idea! The army isn't a civil police force; the training is far too aggressive. The Gardai are all this country has. If I see the army on the streets, I emigrating; to anywhere!

mrmanire

Cliste wrote: »

The what now in the where what?

This state has integrity? Where?

When I refer to the integrity of the state, I am talking about Ireland and the constitution etc, etc and not the Government. Politics 101. A serious lack of integrity with the government though but that's not the point. The Gardai do what the government demands within the limits of the law and that's that otherwise what's the point of our democracy in the first place.

gandalf

If the organ of the law the Gardai are breaking it en masse then why should ordinary citizens stay within the law. It would be the beginnings of anarchy and given the current situation very dangerous with so many pissed off people around.

Grudaire

mrmanire wrote: »

When I refer to the integrity of the state, I am talking about Ireland and the constitution etc, etc and not the Government. Politics 101. A serious lack of integrity with the government though but that's not the point.

... ah here we can begin lists of where there's a lack of integrity, I don't think using integrity as an argument is right, integrity has not been at the front of minds in Ireland.

mrmanire wrote: »

The Gardai do what the government demands within the limits of the law and that's that otherwise what's the point of our democracy in the first place.

No, Gardai enforce the law.


The Judges pay is fixed (ie cannot drop) to ensure they remain impartial. Surely this would be a good idea in the longer run for another of what should be a bastion of unbiased integrity?

(Btw the way, They shouldn't strike, and I doubt they will, although there concerns should be looked at)

Grudaire

gandalf wrote: »

If the organ of the law the Gardai are breaking it en masse then why should ordinary citizens stay within the law. It would be the beginnings of anarchy and given the current situation very dangerous with so many pissed off people around.

If the guys who make the laws break it en masse...
If the guys who break the law get away with it (as long as the crime is big enough)....


You are not really looking at their concerns as frontline staff

mrmanire

Cliste wrote: »

... ah here we can begin lists of where there's a lack of integrity, I don't think using integrity as an argument is right, integrity has not been at the front of minds in Ireland.

This economic crisis is only a temporary thing; very bad now and debts for a few decades after. Trust me if the Gardai were to go on full strike it would have far greater repercussions for this state. The system of law and order breaking down. That's far worse.

As for what has been "at the front of minds in Ireland" right now. If we continue bitching and whinging about the problems this country has right now we'll run ourselves into the ground. This might come across as condescending and let 20 lads come on here and call me a cu*t but that is pretty much a "daily mirror" or "irish star" readers way of looking at things. The integrity of the state is everything and thank god every person who can get up on their soap box and give out about the government has absolutely no say in running this country.

As far as I am concerned; any Garda who strikes will probably get away with it; criminal act or not but he/she is a disgrace to their uniform and everything it has stood for the last eighty odd years.

gandalf

Cliste wrote: »

If the guys who make the laws break it en masse...
If the guys who break the law get away with it (as long as the crime is big enough)....


You are not really looking at their concerns as frontline staff

Why should we, what makes them special over the rest of us. The State doesn't have the money so there has to be cuts, is that so hard to understand?

It doesn't have money because nearly 300,000 tax payers have lost their jobs in the last 18 months and no longer pay taxes. They now draw money from the state. It doesn't have money because a large proportion of those still in employment have taken paycuts and are paying less tax. How is this so hard for people to understand.

All this bitching about mortgages and loans and commitments, do you not think that those in that horrendous 300,000 number don't have commitments?

Everyone is Frontline. To every child their parents are Frontline. To every family the bread earner is Frontline. Thank your lucky stars you have jobs that are secure. An awful lot of us are wondering what 2010 holds for us and whether we will still be employed.

starbelgrade

Cliste wrote: »

If the guys who make the laws break it en masse...
If the guys who break the law get away with it (as long as the crime is big enough)....


You are not really looking at their concerns as frontline staff

I thought they'd only one concern - protecting their paypackets, which appears to be as / more important than protecting law & order.

dinhanoi

mrmanire wrote: »

I just thought I'd start this thread with the outside possibility of a Garda strike and thus a constitutional crisis on the horizon. The Gardai actually violating the law of the land and thus the constitution. National shame?

I can see why people may get upset over this possible strike, but I think everyone has overlooked a major issue here.

If a Garda goes on strike, does that imply that his/her rights to skip the queue at Coppers, and recieve free entry, for The Garda and up to 3 associate non-gardaí, are revoked.

This is a real Problem, and must be adressed by the Jackson Court Hotel. A statement of intent must be issued post haste.

jmayo

TheNog wrote: »

The different allowances reflect the different needs of each job.

What is this huge number you speak of? How many Gardai actually own second or more properties? It would be reasonable to say that some Gardai own second properties. Same as engineers, technicians, doctors etc etc

Hey you managed to get out of the Motoring forum I see.
Come on a plain clothes allowance. i wear plain clothes in my job and I don't get an allowance.
This apepars to be something dreamed up to keep the dectives happy since they were losing their uniform or boot allowance.
There should be an allowance for being based in Dublin, but one for the Gaeltacht :rolleyes:
Also is it true that gardaí that are permanent and long termin an area are still recieving a living allowance just like the junior ones newly transferred to an area and that it even applies to rank of super ?

jimmmy wrote: »

...Being a Guard is not harder or more dangerous in Belmullet than in Birmingham or Berlin or Bordeau, so why is it paid more?

Have you ever been in Belmullet out a wet very windy day ?
It is called the Misery Allowance for that placement

You can't label all the force one way or another.
Some gardaí are as thick as too planks, devious and sneaky, with an arrogant streak a mile long, who would quiet readily charge a family member with minor traffic offence.
Then some others are actually quiet intelligent, don't view everyone as a law breaker, very helpful and quiet accomodating.

Similarly some gardaí have it easy where they can even sneak off in the patrol car/van to feed their cattle on their little bit of land (this happened in Co Sligo and thus they replaced the van they used to carry bales with a car).
On the other side some gardaí are based in the likes of Roxboro in Limerick where they have to deal with the biggest scumbags in Ireland, whilst other gardaí are left picking up the pieces after major accidents and shocking traumatic events.
Sadly life isn't fair and the crap lazy gardaí most often enjoy the same salary and perks that the hard working good oens enjoy.

BUT and it is a damm big but the country is broke and cannot afford to keep paying the salaries that gardaí currently enjoy. :mad:

It doesn't matter what outgoings they have, just like my salary isn't calculated based on what my outgoings are. :rolleyes:

The sooner all public sector workers realise that the money is not there anymore and they lose this ingrained sense of entitlement the better for all of us.

FTA69

redarse wrote: »

So just because the gardai and the military are the 'armed wing' of the government thay deserve not to have their voices heard with regard to their pay and conditions??? Did I fall asleep and wake up in a Stalin type Communist State????!!!

No, you woke up in a country where the cops swore blind to forever uphold the law and now they want to break it en masse. And somewhere along the line it is likely to see the same characters on the "fontline" getting stuck into other striking or protesting workers.

Hence the sheer ridiculousness of their position.

pah

So far I haven't seen or heard anything about Gardaí wanting to break the law en masse.

The GRA has announced it intends to ballot it's members for industrial action. First of all this does not neccesarily mean an all out strike. It can't mean that because I have no intention of breaking the law. It goes against everything that we stand for.

The GRA announcement was completely unexpected and I've not heard any reaction from members on the ground yet. I'll find out when I go to work tonight.

Sesshoumaru

narwog81 wrote: »

obvious to who? why didnt you tell anyone back in 2001 about this obvious bubble. it was only really taking off then, you could have stoppped it;)

whatever about slating PS sector workers, hey its fun to do on the internet, but this sort of revisionism whereby decent hardworking people who were advised that "now is the time to buy" and "get on the property ladder" are now characterised as idiots and fools for fuelling the 'obvious' bubble is very disengenous and doesn't really add anything to the debate.

They were fools. Nothing lasts forever. I don't care if that hurts anyones feelings. Their crazy buying and remortgaging is now going to hurt my wallet.

pah

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

They were fools. Nothing lasts forever. I don't care if that hurts anyones feelings. Their crazy buying and remortgaging is now going to hurt my wallet.

My God man are you out of your Vulcan mind? :rolleyes:

Everything you have said relating to poor/foolish decision making by others in relation to property/borrowing/lending is like a mini version of the economy of the country.

The Goverments lask of foresight in all of this is going to hurt MY wallet.

redarse

and the public sector bashing continues!! are we not going to address the reasons why we got here in the first place??

pah

We're here because as a public servant I get paid too much money. I should be working for a flat rate with no allowance for nights, weekends, christmas and other holidays.

Because Joe Bloggs says to me "Here Boi - I pay your wages!" even though the reality is that I pay for Joes Dole Cheque.

We're hear because the rest of the country is paying for me to retire as a millionaire. LMAO

Because the Public Pensions Bill is Crippling the country.

http://www.frontlinealliance.ie/Documents/Fact_Sheet_3_final_22-09-09.pdf

redarse

well i dont know what part of the public sector you are working in but I will certanly wont be retiring a millionare!!!

Nothing to do with over heating an already inflated housing sector?? Paying €54bn for a 0% equity share??

Anyone giving out about the 3% pay rise to the bank officials or the denial by Mr Bouchier and Mr Sheehy (CEO'S of BoI and AIB) that they will not increase credit flows to SME's even with NAMA in place??

No no typical Paddys will be out in arms at the hint of the Gardai going on strike, (NEVER happen) in my opinion, or over a handall in a soccer match!! Nothing said about who got us here!!