iPoker - 2 Billionth Hand promo - will be dealt today.

max_power

colquhom wrote: »

+1!

lol @ you giving up.

cokedrinker

RegularGuy wrote: »

*partil derail coming up

If a player is cute enough to search out the best %rb deal on the network, then they should be cute enough to realise the potential risks of playing on such a skin. I play on PP knowing full well I could get a better % of my rake each month but also run the risk of being kicked off for winning or having my deal not honoured. I can't be doing with constantly changing skins all the time so I get what I get and I accept it

/ partial derail

Maybe you play 1000NL+ where the extra % in rakeback would be pretty much insignificant in terms of your bb/100...but for us SSNL/MSNL grinders it would be absolutely INSANE to not seek out a good RB deal with a reputable site. We would be costing ourselves $2k+ every month for what, peace of mind?

I've never missed a rb payment, and there a very few cases of people getting booted from skins, but if either of these happened it wouldn't take 2 days to move my roll and be ready to go again. No hassle whatsoever, and I'd have just the same peace of mind having my roll on some of these skins, as i would with paddypower etc...

smoothcall

RegularGuy wrote: »

I've been following the boards for a while but never really felt compelled to post. But having been following this thread particularly, I kind of felt it was time. At the risk of repeating some of the views already ITT and stating the obvious, here is my 2c.

Clearly, there should have been a contigency put in place for the winner coming from a non-participating skin. I don't think any party could disagree with that. More subjectively, I don't think skins should have been able to opt out from such a promotion. If this was allowed, then the phrase "network-wide" should obviously not have been used and those non-participating skins should have been forced to advertised the fact they were not participating.

With the above having been said, IF a player was playing hoping to benefit from this promotion then they have a degree of responsibility to ensure they understand the full T & Cs - FROM THE SKIN THEY WERE PLAYING ON.

However, the accusation that the sites that advertised the promotion are at fault is a little off the mark, I think. Afterall, these sites are advertising for the promotion AT THEIR site.

What I don't particularly understand ITT is the bashing of what I'm assuming is a representative of Paddy Power. Without wishing to come across as a shill, I'm reasonably happy with their stance on this. I think there is perhaps some unfortunate phrasing being used, but the jist of their point is valid. It's not like PP - or any of the participating skins - have misled any of their players and the deal would for sure have been honoured had the winner been playing on these skins.

*partil derail coming up

If a player is cute enough to search out the best %rb deal on the network, then they should be cute enough to realise the potential risks of playing on such a skin. I play on PP knowing full well I could get a better % of my rake each month but also run the risk of being kicked off for winning or having my deal not honoured. I can't be doing with constantly changing skins all the time so I get what I get and I accept it

/ partial derail

The comments about this situation creating a "bonanza" for the sites that DID participate is a little laughable to be honest. Assuming I understand correctly how it works, basically PP and the other skins have "saved" their % of the $62k that they would have had to pay had the winner been playing on a participating skin. Even assuming just half a dozen participating skins, thats a "gain" of $10k which I doubt qualifies as a bonanza for any of these organisations. And why should these organisations be concerned about a player from another skin missing out? Particularly if that other skin is one of the parasitic variety.

I certainly agree, though, that not having the $2k bounty in the freeroll was mischevious at best and - to paraphrase premierstone - contempteous at worst.

IMO, the mistakes were made at the beginning by not putting in a contigency for this situation happening, that shows a not inconsiderable amount of incompetency. However, it's the skins that were not participating that should be the target of players anger, not those that have done nothing wrong.

That having been said, if I was in charge of one of the participating skins, such as Paddy Power, I do believe they should be doing something - even if it's only an exercise in good PR.

Again making the assumption that PP would have been responsible for $62k/no. of participating skins - then I would suggest taking that $x amount and using it for some kind of freeroll/giveaway for the players ON THEIR SKIN, that did take part in the promotion - i.e. those that played around the time the hand was expected and/or put in extra volume during the promotion. If they were expecting to spend this money anyway had the winner come from a participating skin then they've already budgeted for it.

All in all, it's a pretty poor situation to have arisen but I am struggling to understand the reaction of some people in this thread.

Thus concludes what I think is my longest first post on any forum, ever.

This is a cracking post.

If a player is cute enough to search out the best %rb deal on the network, then they should be cute enough to realise the potential risks of playing on such a skin.

This is a great point, I can understand that the extra rakeback can be a lot. BUT you have to realise you are taking risks when setting up with the smaller sites.

All the ****e what went on with lerprechaun poker a while back was a perfect example. It was an unreal offer but theres the chance you don't get paid. Hence I just stick to the big names.

dvdfan

Ive had close to if not the best deals going on ipoker more or less since it began, i've stayed away from small unknown sites as i would on any network but you can still get almost double rakeback by shopping around and ive yet to have to leave a skin because they didnt pay my rakeback, there is a chance you might be not welcome their due to been a winning player but in my opinion its very unlikely youll lose your rakeback and not doing so would lose a regular SSNL/MSNL player in the region of 5-20k a year so i cant see the logic in not doing it tbh unless there was a chance youd lose your roll, but losing your rakeback for 1 month is a different story in comparison to what you can gain per year

BigCityBanker

lucky-colm wrote: »

obviously working for "paddy"

before this runs away - id be very happy if a mod came on here and verified RegularGuys bone fides. I don’t know regularguy, other than not only was that possibly his longest ever first post on a forum it was also the most impressive first post i ever read by someone on a forum. He is obviously a customer of PPP and I thank him for such a level headed post.

dvdfan wrote: »

Regarding an equitable solution, id say do anything other than not pay the money would be fair, to the runner up or maybe re-run the promotion with the remainder of the prize money or invite the people who were online at the time of the 2 billionth hand into a freeroll with the prize money or give it to a cause like the people who are living in the streets rough during this weather or to charity but for gods sake don't stick it your pocket, that is the least equitable solution.

Ordinarily I would have cut this thread loose by now but as I can see you are emotive on the subject i will take the time to reply. I didn’t intend my first respone this morning to be smart or arrogant – i was attempting to be light hearted. In my own sad way I find it funny how somebody can be consciously playing towards the 2billionth hand promo (the runner up in the hand in question posted as much on 2+2), hit it and then not realise that they are in it and fold out their chance of a very big scoop. I find it even more funny (in a strange way – the way in which you realise that you shouldn’t laugh at people slipping in the snow but you still laugh anyway) in the knowledge that when the 1 billionth hand took place 18 months ago the exact same thing happened despite the table getting popups also.

The problem with running a freeroll as you put it for those affected isn’t really a workable solution – you have alot of explaining to do before you put that much information to the players and they understand why you are inviting them to a freeroll, hell most of our players wouldn’t even understand they they are on a network. Aside from that the contribution per player to the freeroll would actually be so small that players would be miffed to think that you are effectively inviting them to what would be the equivalent to a couple of dollar freezeout.

As with any business we have a promotions budget, the money we set aside for the 2billionth hand promo got returned to the pot for use some other time at our discretion. Its not like we decided to pocket the few k and take it wallow at how our year end figures were a few k better than they should have been due to a promotions rebate. The money still gets spent and returned to the players somehow – I arrived in the office this morning and figured we would run a promo tonight with $500 added, in the afternoon when we saw the weather forecast for the weekend we decided to extend it for the next 3 days – the money spent on this (and saved from the 2billionth hand) comes from our ad hoc promo budget. We try not to be skimpy in our spending and promotions, i don’t know of any other skin who upon learning that Cheltenham races were cancelled a few years back had $60k in freerolls available by 10.30am – I am not asking you to stand back and praise us here i am simply making the point that in any given month we (and i bet alot of other skins) spend to 100% of their promotions budget and more and would love to spend more but for the fear of wrath from those above – simply put we don’t need encouragement to spend, for the most part we require containment – we certainly aren’t putting any money in our pocket never to be seen again.

Finally I take your point about people being irked by the tone of my response – I need to remember that not everyone here actually knows me in person.

opr

You have to admire the way in which a PR disaster is turned into a chance to scaremonger people into choosing to play with the bigger skins. If your stupid enough to swallow that crap then you deserve to get swindled both in terms of this promotion and your rakeback. As you can see from dvdfans last post its pretty easy to get the best deals and still be safe.

Opr

RegularGuy

lucky-colm, I'd like to criticise you for leaping to conclusions and not giving me the benefit of the doubt, but I'm fully aware how it must look and understand why you might think that. But, I assure you, I don't work for Paddy Power.

dvdfan - Thank you very much for recognising the post as well thought out and for being slightly less cynical. Having run a forum myself in the past, I of course understand how this would appear and was half expecting an insta-ban. For the record, lingo like ITT and rb% is pretty universal and I frequent a number of forums - particuarly poker related - often enough to understand and use these terms.

The simple fact of the matter is that I had an opinion and I felt I could contribute to the thread. Maybe there is a shade of arrogance in that, but that's the way it is. I hope to be able to make other contributions to the boards in the future - but I've never been one to post unless I have something (I consider) valuable to add. To be clear I'm not resident in Ireland, but visit regularly. The first time I stumbled across this forum was prior to a week long visit and I was hoping to get to play some live poker while I was over.

You obviously have a pretty strong opinion on the matter and you don't across as someone "bashing" for the sake of it. I even have some sympathy with your views - it just so happens I have more sympathy, on this occassion, with the other side of the argument. I'm not specifically defending Paddy Power, rather the number of iPoker skins who have a similar approach to running their poker rooms.

Maybe that is not what you would expect from a player, but I know I'm not alone in my views. I would never a criticise a player for taking the absolute best deal they can get - I grew my (paltry) initial bankroll significantly by being the ultimate bonus whore. Personally, though, I don't mind sacrificing a few $$ each month by doing what makes ME feel comfortable. I reckon I could probably be over $1k a month better off with a different deal but is really that hard to believe that I value my peace of mind higher than that? Even if, in reality, I've no reason to be concerned I just feel happier taking the approach I have. I've also regularly cashed in races on the site and this has significantly reduced my "loss" from not taking a higher offer elsewhere.

I guess I'm moving into derail again now as this was not really the initial discussion. I really hope people can take my arguments at face value and just accept that I have a different point of view.

Just for clarity I don't believe iPoker have covered themselves in glory with the way this promotion was set-up. I would also agree that the situation has been made worse by the lack of official announcements within a reasonable timeframe. It's simply my stance that attacking ANY skin that did participate in the promotion is a little misguided. If I was running one of the operations that were preapred to contribute to the promotion I have to confess I would probably feel more than a little smug satisifaction about what happened. If I'm honest, I don't really feel any sympathy for the player that missed out. I would obviously feel differently if his site had been advertising the promotion, but assuming they didn't I don't really see what complaint he could have.

Now for my third de-rail in just two posts........If I haven't alienated eveyone here (I hope not) and anyone wants to tell me where I can best find out where to get a decent live game when I'm over in Ireland at the end of this month (28th-1st, staying in Ballinasloe) I'd be grateful!

KevIRL

BigCityBanker wrote: »

before this runs away - id be very happy if a mod came on here and verified RegularGuys bone fides. I don’t know regularguy, other than not only was that possibly his longest ever first post on a forum it was also the most impressive first post i ever read by someone on a forum. He is obviously a customer of PPP and I thank him for such a level headed post.

I can confirm that Regular Guy does not match BCB or indeed any of the PP employees. Furthermore he doesnt match other poster on Boards. I'm perfectly happy to take him at his word from posts

RegularGuy

KevIRL wrote: »

I can confirm that Regular Guy does not match BCB or indeed any of the PP employees. Furthermore he doesnt match other poster on Boards. I'm perfectly happy to take him at his word from posts

Thanks Kev. I'm not particularly precious about what people I don't know think of me - but if I do decide to become a more active part of the community it would be nice not to start off in a wave of suspicion!

Paul Spillane

RegularGuy wrote: »

lucky-colm, I'd like to criticise you for leaping to conclusions and not giving me the benefit of the doubt, but I'm fully aware how it must look and understand why you might think that. But, I assure you, I don't work for Paddy Power.

dvdfan - Thank you very much for recognising the post as well thought out and for being slightly less cynical. Having run a forum myself in the past, I of course understand how this would appear and was half expecting an insta-ban. For the record, lingo like ITT and rb% is pretty universal and I frequent a number of forums - particuarly poker related - often enough to understand and use these terms.

The simple fact of the matter is that I had an opinion and I felt I could contribute to the thread. Maybe there is a shade of arrogance in that, but that's the way it is. I hope to be able to make other contributions to the boards in the future - but I've never been one to post unless I have something (I consider) valuable to add. To be clear I'm not resident in Ireland, but visit regularly. The first time I stumbled across this forum was prior to a week long visit and I was hoping to get to play some live poker while I was over.

You obviously have a pretty strong opinion on the matter and you don't across as someone "bashing" for the sake of it. I even have some sympathy with your views - it just so happens I have more sympathy, on this occassion, with the other side of the argument. I'm not specifically defending Paddy Power, rather the number of iPoker skins who have a similar approach to running their poker rooms.

Maybe that is not what you would expect from a player, but I know I'm not alone in my views. I would never a criticise a player for taking the absolute best deal they can get - I grew my (paltry) initial bankroll significantly by being the ultimate bonus whore. Personally, though, I don't mind sacrificing a few $$ each month by doing what makes ME feel comfortable. I reckon I could probably be over $1k a month better off with a different deal but is really that hard to believe that I value my peace of mind higher than that? Even if, in reality, I've no reason to be concerned I just feel happier taking the approach I have. I've also regularly cashed in races on the site and this has significantly reduced my "loss" from not taking a higher offer elsewhere.

I guess I'm moving into derail again now as this was not really the initial discussion. I really hope people can take my arguments at face value and just accept that I have a different point of view.

Just for clarity I don't believe iPoker have covered themselves in glory with the way this promotion was set-up. I would also agree that the situation has been made worse by the lack of official announcements within a reasonable timeframe. It's simply my stance that attacking ANY skin that did participate in the promotion is a little misguided. If I was running one of the operations that were preapred to contribute to the promotion I have to confess I would probably feel more than a little smug satisifaction about what happened. If I'm honest, I don't really feel any sympathy for the player that missed out. I would obviously feel differently if his site had been advertising the promotion, but assuming they didn't I don't really see what complaint he could have.

Now for my third de-rail in just two posts........If I haven't alienated eveyone here (I hope not) and anyone wants to tell me where I can best find out where to get a decent live game when I'm over in Ireland at the end of this month (28th-1st, staying in Ballinasloe) I'd be grateful!

I think that's the only thing you have written that i strongly disagree with.

I'm getting to know Noel from PPP quite well and he and his team are similar to me & mine in a lot ways. We all play a lot of live/on-line poker, all wish iPoker didn't **** things up as much and all row with the bosses to get more money to give back in promotions. No one takes any pleasure in what's happened here and I'm hoping that going forward iPoker learn from this and don't make the same mistakes in the future. Don't forget on-line poker is in its infancy and will be here long past all our lifetimes, i think a few ricks are only not only to be expected but they can be forgiven. Even though business wise it would it a crazy decision i would love iPoker to pay the winner 50% of the prize, just for the fact he got a pop up saying he had won and the rest i don't know, give it me would probably be fairest

dvd fan where do you live? pm me if u like, i think it would be good for you to come to our office and have a few beers after, at our expense. I think you have made some great points though I don't agree with a lot of them; I acknowledge they are thought out and not just vitriolic attacks for the sake of it. For the record I'm not trying to convert you to Boyles/iPoker etc. but we are looking for more feedback from happy/unhappy players this year (half being non Boyles players) and 1 day a month we will be inviting boards posters to see our workplace and then have a few beers to discuss it all, your 1st non Boyle player (I think?) to be invited so congrats even if you tell me to go **** myself.

Ste05

[Mod hat]
Firstly I've deleted some private chat.

Regularguy, we keep threads on topic around here. Especially in serious threads like this one.

BigCityBanker wrote: »

before this runs away - id be very happy if a mod came on here and verified RegularGuys bone fides. I don’t know regularguy, other than not only was that possibly his longest ever first post on a forum it was also the most impressive first post i ever read by someone on a forum. He is obviously a customer of PPP and I thank him for such a level headed post.

As Kev has said, RegularGuy has an IP address that has never been used by any boards account. I'd be as happy as Kev to accept him at his word. Neither PPP nor Boyles have ever used shills on here and I don't think they'd start here today.
[/Mod Hat]

BigCityBanker wrote: »

I am not asking you to stand back and praise us here i am simply making the point that in any given month we (and i bet alot of other skins) spend to 100% of their promotions budget.

BCB, are you for real?? You think just because you spend your advertising/promotions budget every month you should be praised??? Should we praise Microsoft for spending their promotions budget?? That money isn't there for the good of your players, it's there for the good of PPP.

RegularGuy wrote: »

I'm not specifically defending Paddy Power, rather the number of iPoker skins who have a similar approach to running their poker rooms.

What approach are you talking about??

Paul Spillane wrote: »

Don't forget on-line poker is in its infancy and will be here long past all our lifetimes, i think a few ricks are only not only to be expected but they can be forgiven.

huh????? On-line Poker is certainly not in its infancy, if anything, it's already peaked.

Paul Spillane

huh????? On-line Poker is certainly not in its infancy, if anything, it's already peaked.

Well we disagree on that then, all I know is that when I was a professional poker player 14 years ago in my wildest dreams i couldn't have dreamt poker would be where it is now (pokerscout) re numbers. Also I will take odds that its 10 times bigger than it is now in 10 years time if you wanna give me a price.

RegularGuy

Paul Spillane wrote: »

I think that's the only thing you have written that i strongly disagree with.

Well if you only disagree with one thing I say that's better than I usually do!! And I possibly was stretching a point with that comment, but I'm sure you understand the general thrust of what I was saying.

Ste05

Paul Spillane wrote: »

Well we disagree on that then, all I know is that when I was a professional poker player 14 years ago in my wildest dreams i couldn't have dreamt poker would be where it is now (pokerscout) re numbers. Also I will take odds that its 10 times bigger than it is now in 10 years time if you wanna give me a price.

14 years ago, Moneymaker hadn't won the WSOP, the WPT wasn't around, hell even Late-night Poker hadn't even started. Alot has happened in those preceding 14 years. We'll agree to disagree about whether On-line Poker is in it's infancy for the sake of keeping the thread on-topic, and I won't offer you odds, because IMO where it is in 10 years depends entirely on Obama and China/Asia.

RegularGuy

Ste05, apologies for the off-topic comments. Won't happen again!

Paul Spillane

Ste05 wrote: »

14 years ago, Moneymaker hadn't won the WSOP, the WPT wasn't around, hell even Late-night Poker hadn't even started. Alot has happened in those preceding 14 years. We'll agree to disagree about whether On-line Poker is in it's infancy for the sake of keeping the thread on-topic, and I won't offer you odds, because IMO where it is in 10 years depends entirely on Obama and China/Asia.

I agree a lot has happened and won't bore with the facts that I think are more pertinent about why poker's place in society has changed.
I think we both agree the game is here to stay you think its peaked i think like the internet its only just started, in 10 years time you might be able to interrupt me from virtually dating Angelina Jolie to pay up, when i say dating, use your imagination

thenutpeddler

RegularGuy wrote: »

I'm just a regular everyday normal guy, I don't work for PPP MOTHA****A

canis lupos

As previously stated, I don't play on PPP anymore or VC, now I play on fulltilt and stars, because of what I said before about Ipoker
Now I have quite a few mates(some are low volume players) who still play on ppp and there are a few reasons why they still play there.
One reason was that its easy to go around to the local pp office and deposit.
Another reason was that they are reluctant to use a visa, laser card on the other sites as they don't want gambling transactions showing up on their bank/credit history.
Other reasons were, they just could not be arsed to change.
In the past 2 weeks, 4 out of 6 of my poker playing mates have now left ppp and gone to other skins on Ipoker and full tilt. The reason is I have put them in touch with rakeback affiliates who are giving them great deals but the main reason is that they are now aware that they can deposit anonymously with the like of UKASH. I mean going around to your local newsagent and buying a Ukash voucher is even easier than going into the bookies.
PPP, I feel will suffer as this trend will become more widespread and no amount of crap advertising or shabby promotions will get these players back (including myself).
I must also add that the poker is much more enjoyable and profitable on Fulltilt and Stars. They have a much wider range of tournaments, 140,000 players online peak time and they also pay up and honour their promotions. Also their software is more reliable and with few disconnects.
When any business starts to disrespect or take for granted their customer base it will be only a matter of time before their customers look elsewhere for better service and deals. Ipoker will suffer in the end no doubt.

robinblinds

Ste05 wrote: »

huh????? On-line Poker is certainly not in its infancy, if anything, it's already peaked.

It's infancy has finished. Thats all.

hotspur

Paul Spillane wrote: »

I agree a lot has happened and won't bore with the facts that I think are more pertinent about why poker's place in society has changed.
I think we both agree the game is here to stay you think its peaked i think like the internet its only just started

The real question for you is if it is 10 times bigger in 10 years time what are the realistic chances of Boyles having even the numbers which they currently do? Now that I would bet against, although that is not meant as any slight on Boyles or its management.

Maybe we need a new thread for it.

The Snapper

canis lupos wrote: »

they can deposit anonymously with the like of UKASH. I mean going around to your local newsagent and buying a Ukash voucher is even easier than going into the bookies.

I made some enquiries for someone on the ukash option with VC, and strange as it sounds, iirc. there is no way to make a withdrawal when you deposit with ukash

peteypop

The Snapper wrote: »

I made some enquiries for someone on the ukash option with VC, and strange as it sounds, iirc. there is no way to make a withdrawal when you deposit with ukash

u just withdraw by check.

The Snapper

not all ipoker skins offer the cheque payment option so It is important to check this stuff out before you do business with a site.