Should PJ Stone and Michael O'Boyce of the GRA be arrested?

murphaph

Deleted User wrote: »

[The one called the lanzerote allowance whereby they get paid extra on holidays because they dont get to do overtime when on holidays for instance :rolleyes: what a ridiculous allowance].

Oh my God, are you serious? does this allowance exist? :eek:

danman

Yes, it's been discussed at length by various radio stations, media, over the past few months.

murphaph

Fcuk me. I knew the public sector was a parallel universe but that takes the biscuit.

platinum76

the public/private divide is as a result of the government campaign to generate interest away from the main issue. there was wastage in the public sector (and private sector) in the boom times even more so than now, and as you pointed out we didnt hear about because there was plenty of money about, and more so because the government didnt begin their campaign against the Pub Ser until the early days of the recession. the private sector bought into it as it meant that in effect the public service could be blamed for the lack of cash and not the private sector. everyone wants someone else to pay!

there is no doubt that the public sector must make a contribution to argue otherwise is stupid. but the unfair targeting of public service workers to bear the brunt of it is just wrong and unfair. it has succeeded in diverting attention from away from the fact that fianna fail made a mess of it, as we all know.

Drumpot

platinum76 wrote: »

the private sector bought into it as it meant that in effect the public service could be blamed for the lack of cash and not the private sector. everyone wants someone else to pay!

there is no doubt that the public sector must make a contribution to argue otherwise is stupid. but the unfair targeting of public service workers to bear the brunt of it is just wrong and unfair. it has succeeded in diverting attention from away from the fact that fianna fail made a mess of it, as we all know.

At least you try to articulate your points, for that, you are a step ahead of some of the other posters here . .

What I must pull you up on is that nobody thinks the public sector is to blame for the lack of cash. . You find me posts that say those very words and I will point out a liar. If you really believe this is what a majority of private sector employees (or unemployed) are upset about you have been misinformed. .

People are looking at this from the cold hard facts of how our country is situated financially. Its very basic and simple economics, your employer is making huge losses, he has to cut his costs. People keep quoting their own personal circumstances, but where do we stop with the cuts ? How many people in any sector do not have a hard luck story at the moment ?

Why do you believe that the public service are being targeted ?

You see its comments like that, that really gets to people who have taken what they would consider as "real recession pain". . 11% paycut sounds about right for the state our country is in (to be honest many believe that it could of gone further and in the next few years I expect it will HAVE to). Considering the low interest rates and the serious reduction in the costs of goods and services, the actual loss of earnings would be somewhat lower.

But therein lies the biggest problem . . Many public servants have been educated by their self interested unions and take what they say as the gospel. I heard one person say "sure things arent as bad as they are making out" without qualifying what they meant. .Our country is financially crippled and we have one major sector feeling like its being "SINGLED OUT" . . Seriously , it sounds like something you would expect from the townsfolk of the simpsons . .

I dont think anybodys forgotten the Ills of Fianna Fail, but what a majority of us believe is that we need to get our heads down now, get the country back on track and then go after FF. Its unfair of me to say this (I admit that completely) but I wouldnt be overly confident that a Labour/FG would reap much more rewards then FF. Of course they will get their chance and change is needed, but sometimes you need to ask, what kind of change ? Same old Sh*t, differant party ?

What I always find funny (Im not an FF, just objective), is that the opposition partys wanted our government to spend more during the boom . . Its easy for us to throw mud at FF (alot of it well earned), but dont forget that the boys across the bench arent exactly spring chickens. Had FF spent more money like they wanted, we may very well be in an even bigger mess . . Just an observation, dont attack me . .

platinum76

fair enough i agree with you. i do think that the pS has been unfairly targetted from the point of view of an expected pay cut tomorrow on top of the pension levy during the year.

i also believe that we should put the head down as a country and work our way out of this, rather than having a divide created amongst the countries workers into public vs private. this is not creating the sort of positive attitude needed to get things going again. what you think?

Drumpot

platinum76 wrote: »

fair enough i agree with you. i do think that the pS has been unfairly targetted from the point of view of an expected pay cut tomorrow on top of the pension levy during the year.

i also believe that we should put the head down as a country and work our way out of this, rather than having a divide created amongst the countries workers into public vs private. this is not creating the sort of positive attitude needed to get things going again. what you think?

Its not easy for any of us to be honest . . Like you said, head down, hard work and we will come out the other side better for it . .

My gut feeling is that the whole country needs to grow up . . . .

murrayp4

If P.J. Stone & co. ballot for strike action they are inducing rank and file Gardaí to strike and will be guilty of an offence.

Nermal

ei.sdraob wrote: »

arrested by whom?

Coastguard?

seclachi

They signed a contract when they took the job, I dont see how it should be anything less for them. I feel sorry for anybody taking a paycut, but gardai striking is illegal for a reason, and I find it funny how some things ok for the gardai to flout the law they are supposed to enforce. I think the government are right to threaten them too, it could set a dangerous precedent.

murrayp4

Nermal wrote: »

Coastguard?

Don't you mean: "I dunno.....coastguard?"

Darragh29

Drumpot wrote: »

At least you try to articulate your points, for that, you are a step ahead of some of the other posters here . .

What I must pull you up on is that nobody thinks the public sector is to blame for the lack of cash. . You find me posts that say those very words and I will point out a liar. If you really believe this is what a majority of private sector employees (or unemployed) are upset about you have been misinformed. .

People are looking at this from the cold hard facts of how our country is situated financially. Its very basic and simple economics, your employer is making huge losses, he has to cut his costs. People keep quoting their own personal circumstances, but where do we stop with the cuts ? How many people in any sector do not have a hard luck story at the moment ?

Why do you believe that the public service are being targeted ?

You see its comments like that, that really gets to people who have taken what they would consider as "real recession pain". . 11% paycut sounds about right for the state our country is in (to be honest many believe that it could of gone further and in the next few years I expect it will HAVE to). Considering the low interest rates and the serious reduction in the costs of goods and services, the actual loss of earnings would be somewhat lower.

But therein lies the biggest problem . . Many public servants have been educated by their self interested unions and take what they say as the gospel. I heard one person say "sure things arent as bad as they are making out" without qualifying what they meant. .Our country is financially crippled and we have one major sector feeling like its being "SINGLED OUT" . . Seriously , it sounds like something you would expect from the townsfolk of the simpsons . .

I dont think anybodys forgotten the Ills of Fianna Fail, but what a majority of us believe is that we need to get our heads down now, get the country back on track and then go after FF. Its unfair of me to say this (I admit that completely) but I wouldnt be overly confident that a Labour/FG would reap much more rewards then FF. Of course they will get their chance and change is needed, but sometimes you need to ask, what kind of change ? Same old Sh*t, differant party ?

What I always find funny (Im not an FF, just objective), is that the opposition partys wanted our government to spend more during the boom . . Its easy for us to throw mud at FF (alot of it well earned), but dont forget that the boys across the bench arent exactly spring chickens. Had FF spent more money like they wanted, we may very well be in an even bigger mess . . Just an observation, dont attack me . .

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Drumpot

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Agreed . . . .

I know this is may sound a bit arrogant (just using it for the point), but a couple of my friends have suggested that I consider getting into politics . .

It would be something I would possibly enjoy but my main apprehension stems from my belief (may very well be misguided) that to be a politician in this country (and most western countries) you have to give up alot of your morals and ethics to get to the top.

I don't say this because I think all politicians are corrupt, more I believe the people of this country dont necessarily vote for the superior candidates. The politicians that get voted in do so because they tell people what they want to hear and then implement reform/initiatives etc based on populist ideals as opposed to whats best for the long term good of the country.

Theres your catch 22 situation. Imagine being a very credible, intelligent superior candidate and losing out to some of the clowns we see in Dail Eireann. . When you see some of the awful people that get voted in consistantly, it simply makes some of us feel less and less confident with the electorate and Im sure there are plenty of credible candidates who would feel undermined by the narrow mindedness ("sure your mans great, he gets loadsa funds for our local GAA club!") of a mass amount of voters.

The scary question is, do the people of this country want people who look like they can do a job (and can talk the talk) or do they want people who are prepared to make the tough decisions at the expense of popularity. .

We , as a nation, need to grow up. When we FF bash, we insult ourselves to a degree. By saying "I didnt vote FF" all you are doing is passing the book (kinda like saying "I didnt cause the recession). We are all responsible for the state of our country. Obviously in differant levels, but the best way to overcome our pain, we need to accept collective responsibility, draft a plan that makes sense FOR THE COUNTRYS OVERALL LONGTERM GOOD (while not forgetting our most vulnerable) and work harder for less . .

murphaph

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm kind of in agreement with what you say above, but I think if we were serious about getting ourselves sorted out here, we should be seeing a new national political campaign emerging now that has one objective which is nothing less than a complete purge of Leinster House.

There are plenty of hard working capable and well intentioned honourable people in this country who need to start looking at our options here and look at stepping up to the national plate and putting themselves forward for election to a new political organisation.

The standard of leadership in this country is something that I find offensive, I look at every single person, Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore and I get angry inside, I see absolute and utter blubbering wasters in front of me.

Check my sig. Not sure if they have all the answers but they're hearts are in the right place and their suggestions for political reform at the heart of all reform seems absolutely sound and logical to me. We need to abolish the useless Seanad and get the Dail working as a legislature. To do this I believe we need an end to PRSTV as an electoral system and the introduction of PR List. Political parties should mean a form of stability but in Ireland because of (or at least in no small part due to) PRSTV we have an overgrown County Council for a national parliament. This needs to go.

As a longer term objective I believe Ireland should abolish English common law and replace it with a purely codified legal system which would simplify things greatly and in doing so would reduce the cost of legal services for all. There are precedents for this. As far as I'm concerned it should be elected politicians making our laws and not unelected judges. Laws should be crystal clear and not need 'interpretation' from a judge.

County Councils need abolishing and replacing with regional bodies with power. The current setup dates from bloody elizabethan times FFS. For a country that got its independence almost a hundred years ago we've done surprisingly little with it.

ghost_ie

Long Onion wrote: »

The heads of the GRA have indeed broken the law insofar as they are inciting others to breach the relevant legislation. I do think that arresting them now would be premature and runs the risk of martyrdom.

Should a strike look imminent, then they should be arrested and charged just as anyone else would be - however, should this course of action be followed SEan Fitzpatrck should go down first.

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

danman

ghost_ie wrote: »

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

The Garda act is quite explicite.

If you even attempt to ballot for industrial action, it's against the law.
Even talking about a strike is against the law.

So, yes. It is totally against the law. The example you gave isn't against the law, but there isn't a specific law against that, there is for this.
If the law enforcers in this country don't understand a very simple law, God help us.

gent9662

ghost_ie wrote: »

How have they broken the law by asking fellow gardai whether they were in favour of industrial action or not? That's like saying I'd broken the law because I asked my friends whether or not they were in favour of paying income tax. Would I be charged with inciting them to break the law by evading tax

That is different, you don't swear an oath to uphold the Irish constitution. a Guard does. And furthermore they are sworn to uphold the law, in this case the law being not to bring about strike action.

Put another way, if I was a solicitor and was defending a person and I then went off and told somebody else all about the person I was defending that is breaking the oath of confidentiality.