This is one of the ways the economy is going down the crapper....

Dr Galen

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This thread should really be about whats wrong with the private sector and how to fix it.

Did you really just say this?

You know with all the bashathons going on here lately, I haven't heard an inkling about this at all. (I know I know, I could have posted it, but Danny is cleverer than me )

Great idea

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

Most rents in the country are not Grafton st. rents. If talking about cars, you do not talk about Rolls Royces. Most rents in the country are not that high - certainly with the rents being achieved no foreign investor is investing in Irish commercial property, as rents are not attractive enough.

They are high enough that the company I work for (who's office was destroyed in the floods) are still deliberating on where to resettle.

If an established & profitable company face this dilemma, what is the future for new start ups..............

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

Set up a shop in Ireland selling them. Pay the taxes in Ireland. See how you get on.

I wouldn't, not based on stories like the following, not until there is some reform:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0917/1224254724590.html?via=rel

Landlord locks store in dispute over rent


STEVEN CARROLL



STEVEN CARROLLSTAFF AT an upmarket ladies fashion retailer have been locked out of the Dublin city centre premises in a row over commercial rents.
The confrontation is the latest illustration of the difficulties being experienced in the retail sector in paying rents negotiated at the height of the property boom.
Monica John, located on South Anne Street, off Grafton Street, was closed yesterday. A sign posted on its front door by landlord Royal Liver Pensions stated that, due to a dispute over rent, the shop has been locked and the stock removed.
John Murphy, a director of Monica John, which has two other shops in Co Cork, said the current rent on the premisis, some €108,000 annually, was negotiated four years ago during a period of high rents and economic growth that has since ended.
The dispute emerged as Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern said that legislation providing for downward rent reviews on commercial properties for the first time would be introduced in December at the earliest.
Responding to a Parliamentary Question from Labour TD Ciarán Lynch, Mr Ahern said a period of time would be needed to allow the market to factor in “the very significant changes” which were being introduced as part of the Land and Conveyancing Law Reform Act, 2009, which is to be enacted on December 1st.
Mr Lynch said he was disappointed to see the Minister taking a wait and see approach to the matter, which has posed problems for hundreds of retailers, and accused Mr Ahern of burying his head in the sand and hoping that the retail sector would be perfomring better come December.
“Irish retailers are paying out some of the highest rent values in Europe,” Mr Lynch said.
A campaign to end the upwards-only clause connected to commercial rents was mounted during the summer by tenants of shops on Dublin’s Grafton Street where about half the stores are said to be “over rented” by at least 20 per cent.
Mr Murphy said yesterday that he was out of the country when he heard that Monica John had been removed from the premises, where it has been operating since 1990.
The news came as a surprise as he felt the outstanding balance of rent was not particularly high.
“Our business has fallen considerably since we last negotiated a deal on our rent and we have been trying to get it reduced,” he said.
“Interest rates are down and we thought the landlord might be willing to talk to us. We have a rent review coming up next September and they said that rents are probably going to go up.”
Mr Murphy said he would be looking for a new premises in Dublin and that the stock removed from the shop would be collected.
A spokesman for Royal Liver in Dublin said he could not discuss the matter. Attempts yesterday to contact the societys UK-based property manager, Peter Fane, were unsuccessful.
David Fitzsimons, chief executive of Retail Excellence Ireland, which represents 580 companies with 8,000 shops, said rent increases are one of the biggest contributors to business failure in the retail sector which has seen 19 consecutive months of decline.

Dannyboy83

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

Did you really just say this?

You know with all the bashathons going on here lately, I haven't heard an inkling about this at all. (I know I know, I could have posted it, but Danny is cleverer than me )

Great idea

Cheers mate
It was mentioned in the Big Ignorant Fellow from Offally thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63375940#post63375940


We cannot be all preachy about public sector reform and then ignore the private sector. If we are going to deflate the economy to the tune of 4billion next year, private sector reform is extremely urgent to start trading our way out of the depression quicksand we are sinking into.

Dannyboy83

jimmmy wrote: »

Most rents in the country are not that high - the average shop in Ireland - think of the tens of thousands of shops in the country - is not paying much more in rent than the average shop in UK or Germany. Government expenditure is the elephant in the room, and the governments attempt to raise enough tax to pay all these inefficient + overpaid public servants by jacking up the price of drink, cigs, cars etc.

I think we've already tackled Public sector reform and the cuts are going through and hopefully reform will come. So we can leave that aside.
We need to focus on the private sector now.

I want you to look at this link I'm gonna post:
http://propertyvultures.game-server.cc/student/servlet/MySQLsearch3rent?county=Cork&region=&month=Nov09

This contains stats tracking the fall in rent all over Ireland based on the Daft database.

I've recently been looking for a new apartment (holding out on property market collapse before I buy in 2011ish assuming all things go well) and I've been really pleasantly surprised by some of the drops I've seen in rental accommodation. (and apparently Cork has been bucking the trend relative to other counties in Ireland)

If you look at that link, you can see that some places have had drops of over €300.

Now if a landlord has been able to pass on a saving of 33% and still be profitable not to mention just break even, I would like to know how much exactly they have been profiting/extorting since 2004. (and I don't believe 33% could be entirely account for by interest rates)

old boy

the only two words landlords use are footfall numbers, but they forget that all the numbers are not buying, just killing time, and in some cases keeping warm.

lmimmfn

regarding the OP, well ireland has been a total rip off regarding PC's since i used to use postal orders to get 8 bit games for half the price from the uk in the mid-late 80's, so nothings really changed.

I always always buy my PC hardware from uk online retailers, apart from having more of a selection you'll save a fortune, you can get the odd rare good deal here, but its very very rare, and PC world FTW!

Dr Galen

agreed. as had often been stated here, and it's true. The Private sector generate wealth and revenue. If we don't get things sorted there, then we really are screwed. It's going to be private enterprise that does go a long way to getting us out of this mess.

Rental prices are certainly one thing, but without governement intervention, it's gong to be hit and miss how that goes. I'm not advocating governement intervention btw, the less of that the better in my opinion.

The supports we give to new and startup businesses need to be looked at though I feel.

For example, I've been helping two friends of mine with a new business lately. It's nothing massive, it's not going to become the new Ryanair but has the potential to do well, even in these days. The guys have sunk some money into it, I've done the same, helped out with a bit of marketing and sales stuff etc. All going well. Problem is though that its an internally focused market, that is to say that we won't be exporting anything, we will be operating solely with an Irish customer base. For that type of thing it is very difficult to get any support from the government. It's pretty much go it alone and see how nice banks and people will be to you. This is despite the fact that the particular area has both direct employment possibilities and has a direct knock on effect into other sectors, providing custom for them. Its a win win situation. The exchequer gets our taxes, our future employees taxes plus taxes and revenue from the end products from our customers!

Incubation is also something we're not great at. Sure, we need to be careful about who we invest in as a state, but for example Google or Microsoft in the beginning would not have got funding or much support from our government. We need to foster a culture that allows people to at least try and make something, indigenous enterprise seems to be alien to us?

For anyone who says that "ah well, like Google, silicon valley etc etc" look at Nokia. Where are they based? Thats right.......fecking Finland. A country with a similar population to ours, weird names just like us and who acheived proper independence about the same time we did.

GSF

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Commercial rates are artificially high because landlords are attempting to keep their profit margins as they have been for the past 10 years, a totally unsustainable position that I personally have fallen prey to and that hit me very very very hard.

If commercial rents drop the maths of NAMA dont make sense (if they ever did in the first place?). So the choice is high retail prices or paying the bill for NAMA.

lmimmfn

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

agreed. as had often been stated here, and it's true. The Private sector generate wealth and revenue. If we don't get things sorted there, then we really are screwed. It's going to be private enterprise that does go a long way to getting us out of this mess.

Ive argued this point until im blue in the face, but PS/CS are completely unwilling to accept that and instead dont really seem to care if 90% of the private sector are on the dole as long as theyre not affected.

Dannyboy83

GSF wrote: »

If commercial rents drop the maths of NAMA dont make sense (if they ever did in the first place?). So the choice is high retail prices or paying the bill for NAMA.

Good opinion piece here by Morgan Kelly
http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/07/03/morgan-kelly-on-the-irish-banking-rescue/

nesf

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

OT

maybe so, but wait wait wait. Apple tablet is going to piss all over it!

Meh to Apple, meh!

Dr Galen

nesf wrote: »

Meh to Apple, meh!

i'll respond to this once you get back online following your 44th windows crash of the day.....

ntlbell

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i'll respond to this once you get back online following your 44th windows crash of the day.....

hello 1998!

how you doooin?

seclachi

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

agreed. as had often been stated here, and it's true. The Private sector generate wealth and revenue. If we don't get things sorted there, then we really are screwed. It's going to be private enterprise that does go a long way to getting us out of this mess.

Rental prices are certainly one thing, but without governement intervention, it's gong to be hit and miss how that goes. I'm not advocating governement intervention btw, the less of that the better in my opinion.

The supports we give to new and startup businesses need to be looked at though I feel.

For example, I've been helping two friends of mine with a new business lately. It's nothing massive, it's not going to become the new Ryanair but has the potential to do well, even in these days. The guys have sunk some money into it, I've done the same, helped out with a bit of marketing and sales stuff etc. All going well. Problem is though that its an internally focused market, that is to say that we won't be exporting anything, we will be operating solely with an Irish customer base. For that type of thing it is very difficult to get any support from the government. It's pretty much go it alone and see how nice banks and people will be to you. This is despite the fact that the particular area has both direct employment possibilities and has a direct knock on effect into other sectors, providing custom for them. Its a win win situation. The exchequer gets our taxes, our future employees taxes plus taxes and revenue from the end products from our customers!

Incubation is also something we're not great at. Sure, we need to be careful about who we invest in as a state, but for example Google or Microsoft in the beginning would not have got funding or much support from our government. We need to foster a culture that allows people to at least try and make something, indigenous enterprise seems to be alien to us?

For anyone who says that "ah well, like Google, silicon valley etc etc" look at Nokia. Where are they based? Thats right.......fecking Finland. A country with a similar population to ours, weird names just like us and who acheived proper independence about the same time we did.

Nobody wants to take pay cuts, nobody wants to decrease rent, nobody wants to sell something for less than what they brought it. This is our major Achilles heel with the euro, because printing money is the simple way around this problem (when it works, as opposed to when it goes all Zimbabwe). Tbh I think its a case of waiting until inflation has regained the lost ground before everything gets sensible again.

lmimmfn

seclachi wrote: »

Nobody wants to take pay cuts, nobody wants to decrease rent, nobody wants to sell something for less than what they brought it. This is our major Achilles heel with the euro, because printing money is the simple way around this problem (when it works, as opposed to when it goes all Zimbabwe). Tbh I think its a case of waiting until inflation has regained the lost ground before everything gets sensible again.

i think saying nobody there is a bit strong, i have no problem taking a cut in the private sector if:
1. PS cost is reduced
2. minimum wage is reduced
3. Welfare is reduced.
Why? because the cost of living in ireland is determined by the least common denominator, i.e. welfare, if the minimum wage is decreased then as a crap example things like Mc D's burgers will decrease, as will small business services like laundry. If everything is cut then it wil perculate through the system to a reduced cost of living, what happened in the celtic tiger was an example of it going in the complete opposite direction.

Consumers largely determine the value of a service or good, the less money people have the more they will have to shop around and that will mean anyone ripping off will get hurt badly, of course that doesnt affect areas which have monopolys like the drinks industry or arguably Tesco/Dunnes keeping nigh on the exact same prices for the majority of goods.

ei.sdraob

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

and apparently Cork has been bucking the trend relative to other counties in Ireland

ah yes Irish Venice is special

Dannyboy83

ei.sdraob wrote: »

ah yes Irish Venice is special

LOL, its the tv industry, Water Rats season 19 is being filmed in Cork now biy;).