License Question

Hurley6969

I live in Dublin, looking to apply for license in the next month or so for .22 rifle. I would be getting it based on the fact I go to Cavan often enough and can shoot there. I saw that you need permssion from 3 land owners, im sure this would be possible but how strictly is this enforced? will the garda make sure it is definatly 3? Do they also check out about a gun safe? does this need to be a key and bolt job (as in you have to buy one) or would 2 or 3 padlocks on one made (using correct material) do?
I wouldn't have money to join a club right away so is there an issue of someone from an urban area like myself getting a rifle to shoot in another county? or do they even mind where the permission is for?
Is the process still the same as in:
pay deposit for gun
bring serial number to guards
fill out form (available at station?) and send off
wait for approval
if approved send payment and then get license.
Also what would be a realistic amount of ammo to request? Ive noticed some people on here requested 1000 rounds and got 750, is that how it would generally work.
How helpful are the guards in general with the whole process? I have been planning to get a rifle a while now so any answers to the above questions would really help me out.
Cheers,
Hurley.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

You have the money to buy a gun but not join a club? If you don't want to join a club then say it, it's not a necessity. Most supers will insist on you getting a safe and WHEN you do get one, ffs, use it. Too many idiots ruin it for the rest of us. You don't have to buy one, but if you are making one, make sure it's of good quality steel, with heavy locks. Bolting the safe to the wall is a good thing

I got two farmers to sign a letter for me, which was enough.

Your local fire officer should be able to tell you exactly what you need to know. Most are helpful. The rules have changed a little since I got my rifle...

Hurley6969

Obviously going to be using a gun safe, do the guards check after you have the gun? you said they expect you to get one after you get the gun so how does that work during the application process, is it a given that you will get the safe after the license is approved? Where would be the best place to have the safe, was thinking the attic?

foxshooter243

Hurley6969 wrote: »

Obviously going to be using a gun safe, do the guards check after you have the gun? you said they expect you to get one after you get the gun so how does that work during the application process, is it a given that you will get the safe after the license is approved? Where would be the best place to have the safe, was thinking the attic?

the firearms officer will check you have a safe and that it is properly secured before you get your mitts on the rifle, also be advised that a lad up here was shot down because his safe was a home built job and didnt conform to a standard , best to bolt it to a solid wall, some FO sdont like the attic cos it tends to make you leave the rifle lying about rather than go to the bother of putting it away..during the current climate with sporting firearms, i would suggest you get things right.

Hurley6969

So you have to have the safe before you get the rifle? Does that not put you at the mercy of the guards bothering to come out and check on it?

Cass

You MUST have a safe before getting a firearm. Its on the FCA1. You must tick the box stating that you conform to the secure firearms accomodations conditions before applying. If you get refused then you are out the price of the safe but as a small 3-4 gun safe is cheap enough especially second hand then its not a huge expense.

As foxshooter said a home made safe is a bad idea. Has to be inspected by a certified engineer i presume, and passed as to its structual soundness and its ability to comply with the standards set out in the firearms act.

Get a safe, bolt it to 2 solid walls (if possible) put a conforming lock onto the door to the room. Job done.

You only need 2 permissions from landowners, but be aware i know of 2 lads refused licenses because they did not have "exclusive rights" to the land. Not trying to scare you but its a possibility. With regard to the ammo apply for what you need not for the maximum you think you can get. If you use 100 between visits to the dealers ask for 100. If its 5000 then apply for 5000 and its no harm to explain the reason why if it exceeds the "standard amount" quoted in the guidelines.

Hurley6969

So you buy the safe on the hope you get the go ahead? I would be using land my uncle uses, though it is not his, does the "exlusive rights" issue usually come up often because I would not be the only one with rights for it.

foxshooter243

Hurley6969 wrote: »

So you buy the safe on the hope you get the go ahead? I would be using land my uncle uses, though it is not his, does the "exlusive rights" issue usually come up often because I would not be the only one with rights for it.

The thing about applying for a firearm for sporting use is that you make your case to the garda to have one, so if your serious, then go select a rifle from a dealer and get your reciept, buy and fit a safe, get as much permission as you can , I would also try to join a club, then go along and make your case at the station, if you are a genuine keen budding rifleshooter, no obstacle will be too great, it never is for me:D and the best of luck!;)

Hurley6969

Ill pop into the station tomorrow and see if I can have a chat with the firearms officer. Cheers for the replys lads, very informative, but if anyone has any experience with not being the sole shooter on land could they let me know if this caused an issue for them. thanks

foxshooter243

Hurley6969 wrote: »

Ill pop into the station tomorrow and see if I can have a chat with the firearms officer. Cheers for the replys lads, very informative, but if anyone has any experience with not being the sole shooter on land could they let me know if this caused an issue for them. thanks

Dont get too hung up on that, get as much ground as you can , arm yourself with good reason for wanting a rifle, many farmers will give permissions in my experience, if you have to knock on doors then so be it..youll be fine

Cass

Hurley6969 wrote: »

........does the "exlusive rights" issue usually come up often because I would not be the only one with rights for it.

I'm not trying to put the s**ts up you its just a possibility. Don't stress it too much. Foxshooter has it on the nose again. Get as many permissions as possible but the most important thing, and more and more are asking for it, is to be a member of a gun club. It ranges from €3 - €5 per week (depending on club) and offers so much more in land, insurance and security for shooting.

Hurley6969

Well ive been to courtlough once before to do some shooting but cant remember how much membership is, does anyone know? Also any other clubs in the dublin area?

happyjack

Hurley6969 wrote: »

So you have to have the safe before you get the rifle? Does that not put you at the mercy of the guards bothering to come out and check on it?

Sadly yes, under the CJB a Gardai of any rank can decide to land on to your house and ask to see your security arrangements, theres no time frame here that I know of, as far as I know they may wait a year or two and then ask to see it. We had guys down here in Kerry sticking the safe to the wall with grip fill, then taking it down after the inspection and selling it on, but the Gardai are wise to that and may check to insure you still have a secure arrangement for the gun.

I'd recommend joining a game club as it's best to get taken under the wing with shooting rather than teaching yourself, we had a young lad down here shoot his friend in the head while he was changing targets in his back garden.

Having the gun really isnt enough, bullets travel really far, it's best to line up a few good safe places to use it before you apply, thats where a good game club comes in, the older members can fill you in, if you dont want to kill rabbits, maybe you'd be better off starting with an air rifle, ammos super cheap, no noise and your not worried about back stops as much.

22 bullets travel 800/ 900 yards, bouce of stuff like bejasus and more folks get killed with 22's than all other calibers put together, plus every time you fire a round off it carrys your guns finger print, the rifling and that can be traced right back to you if you fire a round without a back stop.

Game clubs are a great way to learn shooting and membership is cheap.

HJ:)

sfakiaman

Ezridax mentioned insurance as a benefit of joining a club, but individual insurance is available through Countryside Alliance. In fairness to everyone insurance is very important and it would help your case with the Garda to at least know it is available.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

You MUST have a safe before getting a firearm.

Just a rifle or pistol. You don't need a safe for a shotgun according to SI 307.

Sparks

happyjack wrote: »

We had guys down here in Kerry sticking the safe to the wall with grip fill, then taking it down after the inspection and selling it on, but the Gardai are wise to that and may check to insure you still have a secure arrangement for the gun.

To be frank, eejits who'd sell a safe on like that not only deserve to be caught and punished, we want them caught. They're only making life harder for the rest of us.

more folks get killed with 22's than all other calibers put together

Hmmm. I'm not sure that's true to be honest. Even if it's true of Ireland in the past forty years, that's an abberation caused by any other kind of rifle being illegal for most of that time. If all anyone's allowed to drive is a Fiat Punto, then Fiat Puntos will be the fastest cars on the road...

Game clubs are a great way to learn shooting and membership is cheap.

+1 if you can get into one. If you can't, joining a target shooting club is equally as good (and better for some things, though obviously there's not much fieldcraft to be passed on).

Grizzly 45

Hmmm. I'm not sure that's true to be honest. Even if it's true of Ireland in the past forty years,

Yes,it is true in a Worldwide context!!.22lr is the most common calibre on the planet.So it is more than likely possible that .22 lr has accounted for afew accidents or sucidies here.

Sparks

It might be the most common Grizzly, but the question is, is it responsible for the largest number of injuries. And given that most .22lrs aren't pointed at other people, while most AK-47s are, I don't think you can say the .22lr has more injuries on its hands per annum than the 7.62x39 (or for that matter, the 7.62x51NATO or the 5.56x45NATO).

You might be able to say so in Ireland, but like I said, that's an artifical abberation.

Mind you, if the op's starting off, I'd rather recommend an air rifle!

Grizzly 45

Yes it is Sparks,It kills more people per annum than the AK.Simply because its so common and in most parts of the world people generally have a tendency to point guns,[any gun that is] at each other rather than paper targets.This is taking into account both war and non war situations the .22lr kills more people.In a purely war situation the 7.62X39 is still king.

Sparks

I've tried finding figures on that Grizzly, and the only people I can find who're saying it anywhere other than on bulletin boards are the Brady foundation...

Besides which, do you not think shotguns are sufficiently common to rank up above the .22lr?

It wasn't me!

Sparks wrote: »

I've tried finding figures on that Grizzly, and the only people I can find who're saying it anywhere other than on bulletin boards are the Brady foundation...

Besides which, do you not think shotguns are sufficiently common to rank up above the .22lr?

I think a serious issue is how small the .22LR is. Nobody takes it seriously as a result. I've long since lost track (and I can only imagine you're the same) how often shooters in DURC have raised an eyebrow when told that it's lethal and scoffed at the notion. IRLConor told me about someone asking whether the jackets were to protect you in case you got shot, as though a few millimetres of canvas were all you'd need. Nobody takes it seriously as a round, and as a result, contempt begets people being killed. Personally, I'd have absolutely no issue with betting that Grizzly's probably right, and that through the years, the .22LR has killed more people than any other cartridge.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

Just a rifle or pistol. You don't need a safe for a shotgun according to SI 307.

Should have said "the" firearm as he is talking about a rifle, but you're right about a single shotgun.

Hurley6969

Sparks wrote: »

Mind you, if the op's starting off, I'd rather recommend an air rifle!

Any suggestions for an air rifle? Is there a big price difference between an air rifle and a .22 as that would be the only reason i would go for the air right now. I finish college in april so either way will be free to do as much shooting i like then and will be looking at rabbits etc. So will get the .22 then if not now.

Bananaman

Looking at the last few post and the Topic Title I am becoming a bit confused.

Thankfully, I don't even know of anyone EVER having been killed with a firearm of ANY calibre - nor do I ever wish to - nor do I ever wish to even read about such a terrible thing.

I also do not see why digging up statistics on these matters on a worldwide basis is relevant to us. We spent long enough explaining to Mr. Ahern that what takes place in the USA is only relevant to the USA and yet 'ye' seem to be more than willing to pull unsubstantiated statistics out of d'interweb and post them up here - WHEN THEY HAVE NO RELEVANCE in Ireland.

I fail to see the point of the discussion - it just looks like people going -
"Well I read that ....."
- and -
"you think that's impressive - wait 'til you hear what I read ....."
and so on

It's like explaining to people the size of the biggest sailfish caught in Mexico last year. Likely to be exaggerated and they are not even sure that there is such a thing as a sailfish or if they are to be found off mexico - by the end of the conversation it was caught off Mayo from a Curragh that had a donkey in it.

B'Man

PS: How many people were killed in China, in 2007, by Pigeons falling out of the sky after being hit by lightning?

Sparks

If you're just looking to whack bunnies, the .22lr is a better place to start Hurley, but if it was target shooting your were interested in, I think air rifle is probably better as a starting point - though others will disagree, and there's no One True Way To Do It. A basic break-barrel model wouldn't be a huge amount of use really though, so you'd be looking at using the club air rifles if you were lucky enough to be near a club (which means being a student in UCD or TCD or living somewhere near either Navan or Rathdrum at the moment), or getting something second-hand (and even then we're talking about around €600).

Sparks

Bananaman wrote: »

Looking at the last few post and the Topic Title I am becoming a bit confused.

True, we did rather drift too far off-topic. Thanks for hitting the report post button...

PS: How many people were killed in China, in 2007, by Pigeons falling out of the sky after being hit by lightning?

Do you mean people killed by pigeons after the people had been hit by lightning or people killed by pigeons after the pigeons had been hit by lightning?

And do you mean an African or a European swallow?

Grizzly 45

Just to put a final word on the .22 leathlty.Would there be a reason why many 3letter agencies worldwide use them for the "wet affairs" or as our US friends call it "Termination with extreme prejudice".When they could just as easily use somthing bigger and effective.
Availability,dumpability and untracability worldwide applies to the .22.

happyjack

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Just to put a final word on the .22 leathalthy.Would there be a reason why many 3letter agencies worldwide use them for the "wet affairs" or as our US friends call it "Termination with extreme prejudice".When they could just as easily use somthing bigger and effective.
Availability,dumpability and untracability worldwide applies to the .22.

Thanks Grizzly, I've read a lot of stuff about firearms deaths and the point 22 round always comes up number one for most folks killed in the round of a year on shear numbers and that folks dont treat them seriously enough. Personally I've killed game at 400 yards with a point twenty two rifle, it drops like a rainbow, but it can be done. If you can see the impact of the first round you just allow for it in the scope and adjust accordingly for the second shot, at 600 yards the rounds drop outside the view of the scope, I was using a 3-9x -40mmm. We had an incident in Tralee where a 22 round lodged in a girls side after coming back to earth at 700 yards, she was playing out side her house.

You can get a spring air rifle for plinking target use for about 100 / 200 euro S/h, and a twenty two s/h varies quite a bit from gun shop to gun shop, twenty two rifles tend not to wear out easily and can be good buys s/h, the points to watch for are wear on the crown, breach and scope mounts. The outside of the barrel can look really manky, but if the inside is ok it matters little what the outside looks like.

Good luck,

HJ:)

Hurley6969

Was looking at the new application form. Could someone tell me what is expected in the Proof of Competence section and who should do character references.
Also they want proof of membership of a club, firearm info and proof of gun safe. Thats pretty much the whole cost of the setup, all thats left is the license fee. Just wondering what are the "pass" rates for application being accepted as it would be poor form to get all this information for the guards for them to say no and leave you with all the stuff but not leagal to use it. I have a clean history so are there any other grounds for a refusal or do people generally get approved?
Thanks.