Against the Lenihan oligarchy in Irish politics

granturismo

Gilmore accused Lenihan of withdrawing his support for the unpaid leave option that he had supposidly agreed with his leader and the unions. Next day his auntie and his brother were on the airwaves lambasting this proposal. Coincidence?

I have never voted for FF but his bid to undermine BIFFO will be one of the factors that start off a spiral of repeated general elections that we cannot afford on so many levels.

Hillel

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

....of course you are not my friend

Glad we cleared that one up!

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

Why are prices a rip off., because of inflation.

Exactly. To address this, I take it you support much more substantial pay cuts, public sector pension cuts, social welfare cuts and tax increases.
Prices in the Republic will then fall to UK levels and remove the incentive for some people to shop up north. Irelands balance of payments will also improve so avoiding Irish tax will be much less of an issue.

Hillel

granturismo wrote: »

I have never voted for FF but his bid to undermine BIFFO will be one of the factors that start off a spiral of repeated general elections that we cannot afford on so many levels.

Yet another example of Brian Linehan (Junior) doing his patriotic duty.

On mature recollection (sorry, reflection) I'm no longer sure that we need a general election. If Cowardly Cowen continues to take the necessary harsh action, even if it is through fear, then so be it. One less problem to deal with.

whynotwhycanti

I am glad we cleared that up i.e. you making an issue of me using the phrase 'my friend'.

yes in general i would agree with what you would propose i.e. cut welfare, reduce civil servants salary etc. I have taken a 10% pay cut since last year not including the extra taxes thus far while the person in civil service on the equivalent salary has only to take 5% from now on and there are already talks of a protest.

There is no point in putting in bold, avoiding irish taxes. That would imply not paying taxes that i should be paying. As i said i do not shop up north but there is nothing illegal about it, it is not tax fraud or tax evasion, it is a personal decision made from an economical view point. Do you travel abroad on holiday? If so, are you not avoiding Irish tax then from your point of view? Therefore if you want to take your stance of not shopping up north you should never go on holiday abroad, only buy irish products etc. I would be more interested if the government went after very wealthy tax avoiders with inventive accountants than the family trying to get buy who find it a bit easier buying these essentials up north for a better price.

freewheeler

Rebelheart wrote: »

I was posting this in another thread in response to people defending this family, but once I started I couldn't stop. This is getting its own thread because that family - three of whom are currently senior Fianna Fáil politicians - epitomise so much of what is wrong about Irish politics today.





The entire Lenihan family are treacherous deceitful scumbags - all of them. I am using my words carefully. As long ago as the late 1980s as a child I detested that family, wholly because when 7 of my older brothers and sisters had been forced to emigrate from this country that guy's scumbag father and second in command of the Haughey kleptocracy, Brian Lenihan Snr, came on RTÉ telling my family and countless more that emigration was good: "that's good, let them go; we can't all live on a small island". I remember my mother's face to this day, and my father's anger. I remember their worry, I remember when my 21-year-old brother rang back from New York in 1989 to tell us he had just got engaged and how my Mam cried incontrollably because he was now never coming home. Just writing it; it feels like yesterday.

Republicans? No, that family, the Lenihan family, is nothing of the sort. They are not our people. They do not empathise with us.

Then we have that extraordinarily arrogant woman, Mary O'Rourke. Of all the profoundly obtuse things which she has said in all her years, her accusation that anybody who questioned Patrick Bartholomew Ahern's integrity while he was out of Ireland was guilty of "treason" rests as the most detestable remark I have heard since, well, since her brother spoke with relief about my older brothers and sisters leaving Ireland. She subsequently came on Morning Ireland to declare, like her 16th century English namesake, that if the Green Party pulled out of the Fianna Fáil-led government they, too, would be guilty of "treason". Once again, the interests of her political party were equated with the interests of Ireland. Contemptible.

And then we have this Brian Lenhian junior character who some (rather pathetic) people are trying to promote as a (relatively speaking) "hero" of this government and state. This is the same Brian Lenihan who introduced his last budget in memory of his father, the aforementioned second-in-command in Haughey's kleptocracy who delighted in the emigration of seven of my older brothers and sisters. This is, yes, the same Brian Lenihan junior who left Ireland to spend thousands of pounds buying an education in the University of Cambridge, England and then turned around and accused anybody who shopped in Newry or Enniskillen of "treason" and questioned their "patriotism". Ireland was, clearly, not good enough for the Lenihan oligarchy, and our education system was beneath their aspirations and their sense of patriotism. Ireland is, however, good enough for the peasants who should have the requisite sense of "patriotism", Lenihan-style.

That family, their notions, their contempt for us, their belief in a double stand on the issue of patriotism, and the origins of their wealth in Charles Haughey's kleptocracy, utterly repel me.

They personify the continuous ethical corruption from the Haughey and Ahern era.

Could'nt agree more Rebelheart..unfortunately too many of our countrymen can't or don't want to see the truth.For me,the likes of Lenihan,Cowen,O'Rourke,Ahern and too many more to mention in the FF party(or the Irish mafia as i prefer to call them) are beneath contempt..the bloody cheek of them calling anyone 'un-patriotic' considering the stuff they've been directly responsible for over the years..unbelievable..and all the while they've overseen the absolute destruction of our country's economy. I only wonder at this stage if Irish people are EVER going to wake-up and stop voting for this lot who have brought nothing but shame to our country.Shame on them all..they are the real TRAITORS here....:mad:

old boy

having the necessary degree from cambridge, entitles one to charge a higher rate for their legal sevices, or so i have been informed.:eek:

Shea O'Meara

If the Queen offered any of them a KBE, they'd be tripping over themselves.

Hillel

whynotwhycanti wrote: »

There is no point in putting in bold, avoiding Irish taxes. That would imply not paying taxes that i should be paying. As i said i do not shop up north but there is nothing illegal about it, it is not tax fraud or tax evasion, it is a personal decision made from an economical view point. Do you travel abroad on holiday? If so, are you not avoiding Irish tax then from your point of view?

Shopping up North means paying taxes to the British Government, that should be paid to our own. I never implied that it was illegal, only that it is unpatriotic.
Yes it is a personal decision, but one that has huge ramifications for the country as a whole. Were it to become more widespread, and given our current economic difficulties, the state would simply collapse. I take particular exception to people who are paid from the public purse undermining us in such a cavalier fashion. IMO it is selfish and self-serving.
I rarely travel abroad on holidays and have not done so for over two years, since this crisis began. It was a conscious decision on my part to support the home sector. I do try and buy indigenous products, where available.

kowloon

sceptre wrote: »

They do don't Irish-style markups. The undergrad fees are currently at £3225 for all Cambridge courses unless you're coming from outside the EU. Even those paying a full markup for doing their second degree pay less than about £8000 or so. Obviously they'd have been less than that when Lenihan went there.

+1, I pay the same fees as my English housemates.

Hillel

freewheeler wrote: »

For me,the likes of Lenihan,Cowen,O'Rourke,Ahern and too many more to mention in the FF party(or the Irish mafia as i prefer to call them) are beneath contempt..the bloody cheek of them calling anyone 'un-patriotic' considering the stuff they've been directly responsible for over the years..unbelievable..and all the while they've overseen the absolute destruction of our country's economy.

I absolutely agree with you in regards to Ahern. He, it would appear, focused on personal gain from day one. Brian Lenihan's (senior) biggest drawback was loyalty to CJH. We all know how that one panned out. I am not aware of any scandal atached to Mary O'Rourke. Yes she is rather schoolmarmish, but that is hardly a crime.

IMO Brian Cowen's failure is down to lack of leadership ability, rather than corruption. He failed initially to grasp the enormity of the problem, and when he did, found it too overwhelming to deal with. There is no evidence, that I am aware of, that he is corrupt. However, he is certainly not fit to lead the country.

freewheeler wrote: »

I only wonder at this stage if Irish people are EVER going to wake-up and stop voting for this lot who have brought nothing but shame to our country.Shame on them all..they are the real TRAITORS here....:mad:

At a time of crisis, strong, experienced leaders are required. There is some evidence of this on the opposition benches, but I struggle to see the alternative Taoiseach. I have never voted for FF, for many of the reasons you identified. However, IMO, Brian Lenehin is the best option we have for Taoiseach, right now.
Who would you have??

freewheeler

Hillel wrote: »

I absolutely agree with you in regards to Ahern. He, it would appear, focused on personal gain from day one. Brian Lenihan's (senior) biggest drawback was loyalty to CJH. We all know how that one panned out. I am not aware of any scandal atached to Mary O'Rourke. Yes she is rather schoolmarmish, but that is hardly a crime.

IMO Brian Cowen's failure is down to lack of leadership ability, rather than corruption. He failed initially to grasp the enormity of the problem, and when he did, found it too overwhelming to deal with. There is no evidence, that I am aware of, that he is corrupt. However, he is certainly not fit to lead the country.



At a time of crisis, strong, experienced leaders are required. There is some evidence of this on the opposition benches, but I struggle to see the alternative Taoiseach. I have never voted for FF, for many of the reasons you identified. However, IMO, Brian Lenehin is the best option we have for Taoiseach, right now.
Who would you have??

The individuals i mentioned may not all have been proven corrupt..however to me they are complicit with the corruption that exists at the top level in their party..I'm sorry but i hate FF and all they stand for..their pathetic record over the last decade or so speaks for itself with seemingly one scandal after another dragging down our country.For me possibly their greatest crime has been to make me and no doubt countless others to lose all faith in politics and become totally cynical regarding how things are done here and it's increasingly obvious(if it wasn't already) that their priorities lie with the wealthy elite of this country,therefore i could never support a FF taoiseach..regardless of the candidate i just don't trust them.

oscar2

The Lenihan family is a typically monstrous example of what is wrong with political dynasties. Brian Lenihan has had a privileged upbringing and without exaggerating has a contemptous attitude to ordinary workers and the poor in Irish society.

Any pensioners or those in the private sector who think they will be untouched by cuts will get their answer in the coming year.

Three of my family had to emigrate in the 80's and early 90's and have never returned to Ireland. To say that I dislike what he represents and the policies and ambitions he pursues is an understatement.

IRISH TIMES Saturday, November 14, 2009

"LAST APRIL, in an unguarded moment, Brian Lenihan remarked that other European governments were “amazed” at his ability to impose harsh budgetary measures. The pension levy on public servants, he suggested, would have been greeted by “riots” in France. The touch of swagger in the Minister’s pronouncements betrayed an underlying complacency. The Government has no real fear of public anger. Its calculation is that, whatever sporadic gestures of protest may be made, the people will take the pain."

Shea O'Meara

You've got Conor;

"When he put up his hand, the Mr Lenihan appeared to say: "Heil Leo". But Mr Lenihan said he just "waved" at Mr Varadkar and it was not a Nazi salute.
"No, it definitely was not. That's complete nonsense," he said.
Although he says he was not performing a fascist salute, Mr Lenihan said he was making the point that Mr Varadkar was pursuing fascist policies.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-says-claims-of-nazi-salute-in-dail-just-nonsense-1513176.html

And the classic....

"Mr Lenihan apologised in the Dáil yesterday afternoon after he told the Socialist Party TD, Joe Higgins, who has campaigned on behalf of Turkish construction workers, to 'stick with the kebabs'.
Mr Lenihan's comments came during exchanges between Mr Higgins and the Taoiseach on the future ownership of Aer Lingus."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0519/lenihanc.html

Classy family.