Inferno Ranbat Survey

Jim

I am also in the opinion that most of the time taken is getting the groups sorted and then some time wasting inbetween stages of the tournament. Once the actual groups sit down and play it takes no time at all.

L31mr0d

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think you should have each group around one machine and give them a sheet of paper to record the results. Would stop the confusion of having one person having to record every game.

I agree. The majority of the administration could be handled by the players themselves, and doesn't require someone walking around, asking who won what and how many rounds where won... etc. I can't see people lying or fudging the numbers.

Give each group its own sheet to fill in and a handful of pens and leave them to it. Assign everyone a number and maybe give people stickers to stick on their arm so that if player 8 needs to play player 14 he can quickly identify him in the crowd.

@chopperbyrne: Why do you think it didn't work out at the last tourny? I think it's a case of group mentality, when no one person can be held responsible, nobody tends to be responsible.

I'd say finalizing the groups before hand would help and assigning someone in each group to make sure they fill out the sheet is needed. If nobody steps forward for the task then pick straws. If people want to get more games in, and for it to run faster then the admin load will need to be shared.

K.O.Kiki

BO5 rounds for group stage would add 1-2 minutes per match, max.
I think it's a nice compromise between the current format & FT2 matches.

EXCEPT it also creates a slight difference when it comes to the double-elimination stage (BO3 rounds, FT2 matches). So uhh... it's also kind of bad.

Also, IMHO BO5 rounds really hurts Akuma because it stops him from attempting Demons (as Demon gives 2 EX to the opponent, so you usually only see Demons in the last round).

Ken B

5 rounds would kinda knock the whole system outta whack..... But I think €15 for potentially six rounds ican seem quite steep. I think they should trial the best of 3 fights in the group stage.
Time factors could be eliminated if the groups were finalized and picked the night before(with a confirmed attendance list, of course).

OR the whole tournament could be a double elimination knockout format....the stakes would be higher and everyone would be guaranteed a minimum of more fights(4, at least).
Old style Carling Cup/Champion's League(European Cup)for the win!!!!!!:D

chopperbyrne

I personally can't stand best of five round matches and would rather we use best of three matches if we were to try anything different.

Leimrod, I'm not sure why it didn't work. I recorded the results for a group I was watching before mine started and I was in Azza's group so he recorded ours.

One of the other things that slows things down is waiting for a PS3 or xbox to be free when someone can only use a DS3 or 360 controller.

I will happily help run things, but if we're going to add more matches then we will have to be much more strict when it comes to late arrivals.

Azza

I don't think the group draw actually or the brackets take that long to do, your talking 10 to 15 minutes each so a total of a half an hour at most. I only started doing the draw at like 1:55PM and we got going like 20 minutes later.

To do the groups I need to know who is attending so I kinda have to wait for the last possible moment. Then I need to know the total numbers to work out the group size. But it still does not take long.

For the double elmination brackets I can't complete the draw till all groups are finished and my group was last to finish due to me being admin and playing last. But once I have the info it really does not take that long.

It would be nice to do the draw before the event but as I said before I don't know who will be there. We usually get one or two walk in's and one or two no shows. Also I would prefer if people could see the draw so I can't be accused of rigging it

Ry

Assign Group leaders who correlate the data from each of their groups and submit it to you making it easier on you having to monitor individual group matches.

That would streamline things a bit meaning you'd only have to then enter in who's gone through to the next round at which point numbers are easier to manage and monitor.

DarkTalant

Personally I find 1 round too short even for the group stages, it seems that the matches are over almost before they start... However with the time constraints best off 3 rounds might take too long....
'Tis a problem alright...
Apart from that everything is grand... anytime in january(except 2nd of course) suits me for the next one as far as I know...

Ken B

How about bigger groups? For more games?

Azza

Just to clarify

A group of 4 requires 6 sets with if its 1 set match. Each player has 3 sets.
A group of 5 requires 10 sets if its a 1 set match. Each player has 4 sets.
A group of 6 requires 15 sets is its a 1 set match. Each player has 5 sets.

A group of 4 requires between 8-12 sets if its a best of 3 set match. Each player would have between 6-9 sets.
A group of 5 requires between 20-30 sets if its a best of 3 set match. Each player would have between 8-12 sets.
A group of 6 requires between 30-45 sets if its a best of 3 set match.
Each player would have between 10-15 sets.

The size of the groups is determined by the number of players. We need to get 16 from the group stages to proceed to the next round.

Currently we have using groups of 4 and 5. If we just increase the sets to best of 5 rounds we will only be expanding the play time by at most 10 additionally minutes which is perfectly manageable. Increasing the number of sets will double the time the group stages take. It might be just doable but its going be tight with some people and buses. I think the tournament last time finished up some time after 6:00pm so I reckon extending the group sets will cause the tournament to finish around 7:30pm to 8:00pm unless we start at 1:00pm sharp with no delays or waiting for people to show.

Retr0gamer

Some of the muck savages have to go home early at 6 at the latest to catch their bus/train home though. That wouldn't be fair on them.

I don't mind paying 15 euros for the tournaments even though I never make it out of the group stages. There's plenty of casuals going on for people who are knocked out and you have the final 16 which is always entertaining to watch.

I think it should be kept at 1 best of 3 set at group stages to make it less of a headache.

Cobelcog

Any of the January dates would be fine for me. Also, I'd like to see the entry fee stay at €15. The prize pot distribution is fine as is.

I agree that the one match in the group stages is too short but I also understand that we have to be realistic with regards to time. I'd say just keep it at one match but boost up the number of rounds.

On the rule of Console Choice, my opinion on that would depend on the context. In the case of PS3 pad player Vs. 360 pad player, I'd be fine with that. There's not much else you can do. I've had a look around for some 360 - PS3 converters but from what I hear, they're not that reliable. I'd imagine that the PS - 360 ones would come with a similar disadvantage.

In the case of a Stick user Vs a pad player, I can't see how it's fair. I'm aware that the Xboxes in the XGC are a bit iffy but I've only been a day so I'm not sure about how bad they actually are and whether or not they warrant such a debate. But surely both players at this disadvantage is better than one player at a disadvantage of control? Unless both players want to play with unfamiliar controllers for a bit which I doubt.

chopperbyrne

Apparently there is a pad-hack for a PS3 board in a 360 shell.

Sounds like a job for Kiki...

bush

Cobelcog wrote: »

Any of the January dates would be fine for me. Also, I'd like to see the entry fee stay at €15. The prize pot distribution is fine as is.

I agree that the one match in the group stages is too short but I also understand that we have to be realistic with regards to time. I'd say just keep it at one match but boost up the number of rounds.

On the rule of Console Choice, my opinion on that would depend on the context. In the case of PS3 pad player Vs. 360 pad player, I'd be fine with that. There's not much else you can do. I've had a look around for some 360 - PS3 converters but from what I hear, they're not that reliable. I'd imagine that the PS - 360 ones would come with a similar disadvantage.

In the case of a Stick user Vs a pad player, I can't see how it's fair. I'm aware that the Xboxes in the XGC are a bit iffy but I've only been a day so I'm not sure about how bad they actually are and whether or not they warrant such a debate. But surely both players at this disadvantage is better than one player at a disadvantage of control? Unless both players want to play with unfamiliar controllers for a bit which I doubt.

Its just the tvs that the 360's are hooked up to are ****ty and sometimes laggy whereas the ps3's are all sony tvs and work fairly well. If its 2 players that use sticks its better to play on ps3 cos there is plenty of sticks to go round.
In your case I doubt any stick player would make you play on ps3 or even have any problem playing on 360. Im not sure what would happen if a 360 pad and ps3 pad player met, I dont think its ever happened.

Azza

The Walker TV's connected to the Xbox 360 are in my opinion awful. Input lag seems usually big. Its not a matter of controls for me but I just purely prefer the PS3 because there doesn't appear to be any input lag at all on those TV's. Its like an entirely different game from the one I play at home. I know several other people who are of the same opinion. We asked if we could get them to change the TV's around to have some Xbox 360's on the Sony TV's but they would not do it.

Neither scenario is ideal, but if a player insists on player on a particular console what choice do we have but to flick a coin. Ideally the best thing would be for everyone to have dual mods or a stick/pad they can use on both formats but again not everyone can afford such things.

Cunny-Funt

bush wrote: »

. Im not sure what would happen if a 360 pad and ps3 pad player met, I dont think its ever happened.

its has twice

1st time was at lan party and we played on the PC version. Which was great.

Then last time we played on the 360 and I used my ps1 pad instead of ps3 and a converter. Not fantastic as its stiff but better than nothing. I was more frustrated with it being only 1 set than anything else. Not that I think I would have won :pac:

I bring up the idea of me bringing in my laptop every now and then. It'd be a good solution to this but my hesitation is due to the fact that its running off a 65w charger and not a 90w which it needs. Thus it runs slower.

So while I can run SFIV at 60 fps on it, I've never played a decent versus session on it before so I'm just not 100% sure how well it'd perform. I'd hate to have a frame slow down on people playing a tourney.

Cobelcog

Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up, guys. I wouldn't object to buying an extra controller for use on the PS3 if it's the ideal console for these meets. However, the 360 pad is what I'm familiar with and I'm not exactly tech-savvy.

Leprekaun

D4RK ONION wrote: »

I'd be extremely concerned with any characters getting banned. IMO if you're good enough, you can deal with anyone's character.

You're another one to add to my list of "people who don't get my humour" :pac:

I think the only way to make the draw faster is to set a time (say 15 mins) to end registration to give the organiser at least 15 mins to organise groups. Something I was thinking about for the groups is maybe just assign each top seed to a different group (which I'm sure you lads have done already) but instead of drawing names for the different groups, just put the names down based on the registration list so for example if it were in groups of 5 (bush + registrants 1-4 / blag + registrants 5-9 etc.) because it more the drawing that takes up wasted time. Another thing as well is change. I remember at the first tourney, I had to take notes down of how much change each person needs/payments to be made after the tourney so it took up a little bit of time there so ideally, it would be best if everyone could just make sure they have the exact change rather than trying to break 20s or 50s.

Kirby

Im convinced the input lag is in peoples heads. No doubt the sony's are better.....the colour depth and contrast ratio are there for all to see. And there might be a couple ms difference. Maybe. But i've played on both numerous times and don't feel a noticable difference. To me, it seems like the placebo effect....and once its in your head it wont go out. When you miss a link on the ps3 you dont think anything of it, but on the 360 tv's suddenly its Lagzors!!11!

I understand preference for a console due to your controller, but preferences over tv's are over the top. We are all in there, playing on the same equipment.

Leprekaun

From reading the multi-platform review on Eurogamer, they said there is no difference at all. It could be a refresh rate thing between the TVs though which if there is a considerable difference, it can easily be noticed but I can't comment much on this as I've only played a max of 2 or 3 proper games on the PS3s.

K.O.Kiki

Sorry Kirby, but there probably is input lag; I've heard Witch complain about it too.
It's kinda how I get headaches from CRT monitors running at 60Hz - others are fine, but I'll always lower res and up refresh rates.

D4RK ONION

I'm good for any date, would prefer for it not to be the 2nd though.

Leprekaun wrote: »

You're another one to add to my list of "people who don't get my humour" :pac:

Or, you can add me to your "not in on every insider joke" list. Either one is fine I suppose.

L31mr0d

Kirby wrote: »

Im convinced the input lag is in peoples heads.

I'm pretty sure its been demonstrated over in the SRK forums. Not console specific but it does depend on how good the upscaler on the TV is, and how much time it takes to process the signal. Generally speaking, the cheaper the panel, the longer the lag.

I do however think it has more to do with transitioning from online to offline play. Can't remember if it was here or on SRK but I was reading that the way SFIV handles the inevitable latency is to add up to 3 frames on to a move. Meaning a move that might take 5 frames to come out will appear to take 8.

EDIT: here it was: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63355871&postcount=661

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

Im convinced the input lag is in peoples heads.

I've heard Azza, Bush, The Witch, and someone from the north all complain about it to me on different occasions, don't think it's in peoples' heads.

Kirby

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Sorry Kirby, but there probably is input lag; I've heard Witch complain about it too.
It's kinda how I get headaches from CRT monitors running at 60Hz - others are fine, but I'll always lower res and up refresh rates.

Even if i concede that it exists....which I dont btw, but even if I did, its like footballers complaining about the heat....or the wet...or the bumpy pitch. Everybody is in the same boat so it seems hugely petty to complain about a few milliseconds that everyone experiences.

Dreddybajs wrote: »

I've heard Azza, Bush, The Witch, and someone from the north all complain about it to me on different occasions, don't think it's in peoples' heads.

As I said, monkey see monkey do. Once one person claims its true, it casts the thought into everyone else's. People begin to start thinking about the lag during their match, instead of their play. And it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.

Perhaps I'm wrong. But I'm going to need a little bit of evidence before I subscribe to the lag theory. I can do all the fancy combo stuff on both. I can demonstrate at the next casuals if you would like. And I saw Newtype pulling off his usual tricks on the 360 monitors in the final.

Dunno. I'm not convinced.

Dreddybajs

I'm talking about different events months apart from one another. I notice myself dropping combos more on those TVs as well, and there's a reason big american tournaments are still played on CRTs man.

fake_roogle

There's definitely some lag on the Walker's. When us northeners just arrived and we got a setup to warm up on, I moved my stick and it took a few milliseconds for me to actually move on screen. Mike and I just stared at each other thinking "Hope we don't have to play on this one!".

I mean, it's not as if it's completely unplayable or anything, but having to adjust your input timing because of a ****ty TV can be really awkward and not something you necessarily retain during a match.

L31mr0d

Kirby wrote: »

As I said, monkey see monkey do. Once one person claims its true, it casts the thought into everyone else's. People begin to start thinking about the lag during their match, instead of their play. And it becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.

Ok enough of the pop psychology :rolleyes:. It could be said you are experiencing a form of confirmation bias, like evolution deniers. You don't want to believe something happens so you only selectively interpret events to fit your beliefs.

Kirby wrote: »

Perhaps I'm wrong. But I'm going to need a little bit of evidence before I subscribe to the lag theory.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=174085

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Input_lag

One of the main reasons I game on the PC for SFIV is because there is virtually no processing of the digital signal. To play it on my PS3 means the signal will need to be processed twice before getting to the screen. Once by my Amp and then again by my Plasma screen.

People who may not notice it at the meet ups may already game on screens at home which have equal or worse input lag and are now used to it.

K.O.Kiki

Another tale: the monitors for the DDR cabinets in Dr. Quirkey's were, according to Xinkai, so badly uncalibrated that they had to fly in an expert from Japan.
Being Quirkey's, this took them a while.

2-3 months, if memory serves. :rolleyes:

Red350

I'm good for the 9th, and I'm for keeping the price at €15. I also think best of 5 rounds for group stages is a good compromise.

As for the lag debate, there's definitely a noticeable difference when swapping between the different TVs, and it does takes a few rounds to adjust. I have the same issue at home when going from PC to PS3.
I'll bring my copy of guitar hero 3 to the next meet up to convince the non-believers :P