SFIV Move Priority List - Are there any sites that provide them?

Leprekaun

Hey lads! Something that has been frustrating for me ages now is when I up against a character I haven't fought against before, I get a bunch of surprises where my special moves get beaten so I wanted to ask if anyone know of any site like eventhubs or shoryuken that provide move priority info?

Doctor DooM

I thought it didn't work like that, that priority in SF4 was really just the interaction between actice and inactice hitboxes which gives the illusion of a priority?

Kirby

Moves do have priority.

For example, Dhalsims forward Heavy kick gets stuffed by quite alot of moves on the jump in......but his back Heavy kick beats alot of jumpins as it has higher priority. But Balrogs jump in for example, trades with it as it is equally high.

I don't know of a site that does it. To be honest, if you think about it the list would be gargantuan. Every character has like 50 different moves. The graph would need to fill them all in in relation to the whole cast. Nightmare.

And you don't need to know 95% of it. You kinda figure it out when you get stuffed by some jumping light kick crap

Doctor DooM

Kirby wrote: »

Moves do have priority.

For example, Dhalsims forward Heavy kick gets stuffed by quite alot of moves on the jump in......but his back Heavy kick beats alot of jumpins as it has higher priority. But Balrogs jump in for example, trades with it as it is equally high.p

But that could just be because of different hitboxes, no?

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2009/sep/18/guide-understanding-hit-boxes-street-fighter/

chopperbyrne

Isn't this frame advantage you're talking about?

Move priority is to do with inputs, which is why when you try to walk forward and then fireball, you get srk instead because it has priority over fireball (not helped by the long input leniency in this game!).

Leprekaun

I know trying to compile all the moves from each character and then comparing them is a difficult task but at least the specials like hadoukens, shoryukens, tatsumakis, sonic boom, flash kick, etc. I know that for the normals, its more about frame start up. I'm not really interested in studying frame date because there is A LOT of it but at least special move priority. I know that certain specials like the SPD, Ochio or Tornado Throws are more about the start up as they're throws but in terms of AA options like for example an SRK would trade against a Body Splash.

chopperbyrne

Leprekaun wrote: »

I know trying to compile all the moves from each character and then comparing them is a difficult task but at least the specials like hadoukens, shoryukens, tatsumakis, sonic boom, flash kick, etc. I know that for the normals, its more about frame start up. I'm not really interested in studying frame date because there is A LOT of it but at least special move priority. I know that certain specials like the SPD, Ochio or Tornado Throws are more about the start up as they're throws but in terms of AA options like for example an SRK would trade against a Body Splash.

As Doom said, that's just hitboxes. It all depends on when each move is done and the position of the characters. It would be impossible to list that much information.

K.O.Kiki

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFTvXXoDNRA

Azza

There is a line of thought that there is no such thing as priority, its all about positioning and hitbox's while other consider these factors to be what makes up priority.

Take Bison's jumping mpx2 (Hell Attack) which set up his ultra. Normally thats stuffed clean by an air tatsu if both characters are at equal height. But if Bison's hitbox only tags the very bottom of the non out stretched leg of his opponent during his air tatsu (he has to be a bit lower than the his opponent) then he can beat the tatsu clean. In an actual match 9/10 Tatsu wins but it isn't guaranteed.

Another example for Bison against Ryu would be Ryu's jumping hard kick normal trades with Bisons roundhouse. However if Bison is more or less underneath him or Ryu is about the 11 o clock position above him Bison can tag the rear of Ryu jumping hard kick with his roundhouse and beat him clean, as he totally avoids the active hitbox of Ryu.

If two active hitboxes hit each other its normally a trade.

However there is exceptions, Zangiefs 3xP Larait has different priorities during different stage of its moves. During the start up phase of the larait he can be hit out of it with say Bisons roundhouse but this difficult to time. This isn't priority but because the hitbox of the larait isn't fully extended yet. During the first 2 rotations of the larait when the hit box is fully extended it will normal trade with any high attack like Bisons roundhouse when both characters active hitbox hit each other, however during the third rotation it will loose clean to the roundhouse.

There is a huge amount of variables and factors involved. You just basically have to play the game and learn them but you need to playing human opponents to learn it properly

Dreddybajs

Kirby wrote: »

Moves do have priority.

For example, Dhalsims forward Heavy kick gets stuffed by quite alot of moves on the jump in......but his back Heavy kick beats alot of jumpins as it has higher priority. But Balrogs jump in for example, trades with it as it is equally high.

no no no no no no no no no no no no no

Kirby

people can talk about no priority all they want, but its there. I'm not talking about late hits or being stuffed on startup. When two active hitboxes collide, one wins or they trade. Ryu's ultra has priority over Dhalsims for example.

So, yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Dreddybajs

That's to do with the placing of the hitboxes and whether one move has invincibility frames, there is no such thing as priority. Please watch the video Kiki linked everyone who thinks there is.

edit: It may be an easier way to wrap your head around it if you think about it in those terms and that's fine, but posting it for others as fact in threads like this is just wrong and spreads misinformation.

The only reason one move would win when two active hitboxes trade is because one has invincibility frames. If there's no invincibility frames, they will trade 100% of the time.

Kirby

That's to do with the placing of the hitboxes and whether one move has invincibility frames,

No its not. Go into training and try it. When the fireballs collide Sim's gets destoryed.

Dreddybajs

Ryu's ultra fireball has invincibility, Sim's doesn't. Problem solved.

edit: That's why when I EX hand, it absorb's a hit of Sim's ultra fireball - this won't happen for Ryu's though.

Doctor DooM

Kirby wrote: »

No its not. Go into training and try it. When the fireballs collide Sim's gets destoryed.

Uh... thats hitboxes dude. Ryu has no hitbox when he starts his Ultra. Just like the start of a srk.

Kirby

What do you mean by that? "Invincibility frames" refers to the character and whether or not they can be hit when the moves starts or ends. For example, Bisons EX headstomp. The fireball itself has no invincibility properties. Its a fireball.

Dreddybajs

The fireball does have invincible properties lol.

Kirby

Can you explain how Ryu's fireball has invincibilty but Dhalsim's doesnt? What you are saying makes no sense at all.

Seriously, just go into training and stand half a screen away and ultra with them both. Ryu's Ultra fireball wins because it has priority. Its right there to see.

Dreddybajs

Em, Ryu's fireball is invincible, and Dhalsim's isn't. Therefore when the two collide, Ryu's destroy's Dhalsim's. How does that make no sense?

There's not someone in Capcom who goes over every single interaction possible of two moves and says "now THIS beats THIS, but it loses to THIS" for every normal and special in the game.

Kirby

Dreddybajs wrote: »

There's not someone in Capcom who goes over every single interaction possible of two moves and says "now THIS beats THIS, but it loses to THIS" for every normal and special in the game.

Actually there is. They are called testers....or QA. I got paid for doing it for years. Thats how stuff gets balanced.

Dreddybajs

Just tested in training Kirby.

When two fireballs normally collide, they each dissipate. When you fire an EX (which has two fireball hits) at the normal one, the EX still has one fireball left after the collision and goes on.

When you fire a Ryu ultra (8 hits normally) into a Dhalsim ultra, they collide, then Ryu's goes on to hit Dhalsim 3 times. There's just more fireball "hits" in Ryu's ultra than Sim's is all. A few are left over after the collision which go on to hit him.

Again, nothing to do with the mythical "priority".

edit: To test further, Ryu's super normally does 5 hits. It and Dhalsim's ultra destroy each other on collision because they're both 5 hits.

If you stand at 3/4 screen, you have time to do 3 EX fireballs with ryu on reaction to Dhalsim's ultra. The first two will be destroyed, the first hit of the last fireball will destroy Dhalsim's ultra completely, and the last hit will go through to hit Sim. Does that mean that 3 EX fireballs has priority over Sim's ultra? :pac:

Doctor DooM

Kirby wrote: »

Can you explain how Ryu's fireball has invincibilty but Dhalsim's doesnt? What you are saying makes no sense at all.

Seriously, just go into training and stand half a screen away and ultra with them both. Ryu's Ultra fireball wins because it has priority. Its right there to see.

?

Are you still talking about the Ultra?

Ryu (the character) has no hitbox at all for the start of the Ultra.

Ryu's ultra is 8 stacked hitboxes. Sim's is five I think.

Thus Ryu's wins.

Kirby

Dreddybajs wrote: »

Just tested in training Kirby.


When you fire a Ryu ultra (8 hits normally) into a Dhalsim ultra, they collide, then Ryu's goes on to hit Dhalsim 3 times. There's just more fireball "hits" in Ryu's ultra than Sim's is all. A few are left over after the collision which go on to hit him.

Again, nothing to do with the mythical "priority".

I was only referring to the ultra. Not regular fireballs.

Regarding the ultra, the point is they gave it the extra 3 hits. They did so it would win . Priority. Winnar!

Only messing man. I know what you mean about the active hitboxes. And i amn't disputing that. Its just the terminology. I would class Sims Knee as very high priority because it beats nearly everything, from many different distances. As would most people. Its a world thrown around alot in forums for a reason.

In the truest sense of the word, its merely coliding active hitboxes.....which is why u often see puny jabs trading with heavy attacks....because the active hitboxes collide. but if the hitbox is really large, and lasts for many frames and thereore beats many other moves.....would it be erroneous to describe it has a high priority move?

Dreddybajs

Yeah and as I said, it's fine to think of it in terms like that yourself, but you are providing misinformation when someone asks a question about how the game works and you respond with "priority". Understanding how hitboxes interact is important, and this priority crap undermines a fundamental understanding of the game for people who are reading about it and don't understand how hitboxes work in the first place.

It's the use of the word "priority" as an explanation to people when they should be finding out how hitboxes interacting that I have a problem with, not people using the term to make sense of the system personally after they already understand that stuff.

Kirby

I get what you mean. It's just how I normally see stuff like this discussed. Like how Guiles Flash kick gets beaten so often. Or Sims Yoga blast gets beaten. Its to do with active frames and tiny, tiny hitboxes. They are often described as low priority moves due to this reason. They get beaten by nearly everything.

If ya get me.

chopperbyrne

I explained the proper definition of move priority in post #5.

Doctor DooM

You know, Douglas Adams wrote an interesting essay about the human brains tendancy for pattern recognition to change complex systems into something more recognisable which allows them to process the information with more speed (for example, feng shui converts "Maximisation of space" to "Would a dragon be comfy curled up in here?").

Priority is just like that in fighting games. It's quick and easy to say "Ryu's jumping roundhouse has priority over flash kick, thats bull****". It's quicked to just go "I can't flash kick right now because of his bull**** priority." in your head.

You should still try to understand whats going on behind the scenes though. I'm able to airthrow people out of srks, headbutts, tatsus, and blanka balls because of it.

Kirby

Well said. But I would class a move that has 50 active frames, and takes up half the screen as a much higher priority move than one that has 5 and whose hitbox is tiny. Its just terminology. Like my sim knee. If you go look at it, the hitbox is huge. People get hit by it when nowhere near the "knee" It also stays out there quite a long time. The only thing that can beat it really is Rogs fierce jump in.....cause its hitbox is just as big and has lots of active time.

Xinkai

From Alex Valle VIA IRC: There is no such thing as priority in SF4, none whatsoever, Just being interupted by a faster move. (In a nutshell)

Owwmykneecap

Priority is startup. that's it.