Irish Rugby and Sevens

luke9311

connachta wrote: »

I know you'll say keep the squad but as N-Z did with SBW, I'd add one or two well-able profiles like Ringrose and Wootton for Olympics. Risky but could pay!

Think Ringrose would be a step to far tbh in my view given his value to both club and country in 15s as a centre tbh but also hes still injured aint he from last i read (just my opinion)? ..... in saying that i would be open to someone like a james hume be brought in or even bring back dan goggin....

Edit: appologises forgot the time of year and all that i can see where your coming from adding them in as its technically season over etc etc in 15s so effectively if there added in they have nothing to lose in 15s games fixtures.... As thebaz stated above i think larmour would be your obvious choice given the pace...

Cosmo Kramer

thebaz wrote: »

Don't really follow sevens , watched it at last Olympics , but have we a chance of medal , even a bronze ??

Will Fiji, NZ and SA be a step too far ?

Sevens can throw up some very random results so it's far from impossible. Those three would be the favourites though, probably the likes of Australia, GB and ourselves after that. France being out takes one contender out of the equation.

Only 12 teams qualify and once you take away makeweights like Korea that will be there it's few enough teams that there's an outside chance.

TheAnalyst_

Over the moon. Been streaming them since 2015 and got to play in a tournament with them in 2016.

I saw something in the challenge tournaments they had recently that was different. Pure control and focus.

Conroy and Kennedy are superstars and would start in any team. A medal is a very real goal.

Kiwi_knock

connachta wrote: »

I know you'll say keep the squad but as N-Z did with SBW, I'd add one or two well-able profiles like Ringrose and Wootton for Olympics. Risky but could pay!

The Olympics is 5 weeks away, no chance any extra players get brought in now. I do think it will be something that some Irish 15s players will think about in the future, but to really work it requires them to dedicate a full year before the Olympics to the 7s programme.

TheAnalyst_

I don’t think people understand how **** nearly all the starting Irish 15 would be if thrown into the Olympics team.

Lost Ormond

Larbre34 wrote: »

Congrats to everyone who dragged Irish 7s back from the wilderness in just 5 or 6 years, the performance team, programme managers, coaches and staff and the players. An unreal achievement.

Yeah its huge. Big plaudits to Anthony Eddy and Nucifora for getting the 7s programme off the ground.

connachta wrote: »

I know you'll say keep the squad but as N-Z did with SBW, I'd add one or two well-able profiles like Ringrose and Wootton for Olympics. Risky but could pay!

No chance of either of them going. New Zealand knew well in advance of tournament they would be going and could do that. the Olympics starts in 5 weeks. No chance will these guys go.

thebaz wrote: »

Don't really follow sevens, watched it at last Olympics, but have we a chance of medal, even a bronze??

Will Fiji, NZ and SA be a step too far ?

Very little chance. GB,, Australia and Canada will also be a bit more likely

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

The Olympics is 5 weeks away, no chance any extra players get brought in now. I do think it will be something that some Irish 15s players will think about in the future, but to really work it requires them to dedicate a full year before the Olympics to the 7s programme.

Yep. Hopefully we see more 7s tournaments to attract players to the 7s game that might be missed by provinces etc for the 15s game

Faugheen

It's the likes of Foster Horan and Harry McNulty I'm most pleased for. Lads who were in the programme since it was re-established and they had to start at the very bottom.

McNulty was always a class operator but Horan made some excellent plays over the weekend too.

Muligatawney

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Very little chance. GB and France will also be a bit more likely

I wouldn't rate France's chances tbh.

Lost Ormond

Muligatawney wrote: »

I wouldn't rate France's chances tbh.

Yeah that was mistake. Meant Ozzies.
France of course didnt qualify....

We're likely to be seeded third in group if its similar to 2016 and id be surprised we'd get a medal. would need a fair few shock results against the best sides on the series ...

Richie_Rich89

They should get all the top 15s players involved for the Olympics - the likes of Furlong, Henderson, Murray and Henshaw.

thomond2006

thebaz wrote: »

Larmour and Stockdale too ?

ps but would probably burst the team Spirit , which really seamed good.

Bringing in ringers Mr. Burns style would be an awful idea for many reasons and the Olympics doesn't fit within their calendar anyway. August is their pre-season.

Lost Ormond

thomond2006 wrote: »

Bringing in ringers Mr. Burns style would be an awful idea for many reasons and the Olympics doesn't fit within their calendar anyway. August is their pre-season.

Depends. 2016 saw a few. Stars from 15s game to bring in more attention etc

Can help side as well. Now Southern hemisphere season may suit players better but would be interesting to see it happen and who would they even ask?

Bridge93

To be honest I'd be very disappointed if any of the 15s were brought in (with the exception of maybe some like Keenan or Jimmy O Brien for injuries). There's 5 weeks until the tournament and nowhere near enough time to get them up to speed.

More importantly, these guys have earned the right to go to the Olympics and not be replaced by a few ringers. Dardis' interview said it all. So many of these guys have been there since Day 1, playing games in Bosnia and Andorra. Others have seen their professional dreams come to an end with academy contracts not working out. This is their day and their stage, not some big name strolling in for a jolly to Japan before heading back to Leinster/Ulster or whoever and getting on with their day job

starkid

there's a realistic chance of one or two players from the outside are involved. Your Kendellans, Pennys. I'd prob even give Keenan and Balacloune a shot personally (seeing they were there already) Bear in mind Kendellan and Crowley were recently called in for a squad in the last gamess before this tournament.Before that Timoney played, and Cormac Izuchukwu. Its harsh but i'd say a Mollen or a Cribbin could be sacrificied to give us a competing chance. its professional sport, sentiment doesn't come into it. MCNUlty, Horan and Roche deserve it for being in it for the long haul. Kennedy and Conroy are World Class sevens players. Most likely the squad stays the same. But i wouldn't bet against one or two ringers from outside the top table (there's not a chance you'd get any current internationals despite my hope for Keenan). If you added one or two to this group, we'd have a genuine medal opportunity. For a country that has a relatively woeful olympic record (compared to similar sized nations) it would be hard to pass that up based on sentiment. And any medal would boost the game here exponentioally imo. Which was probably the whole point in the first place. Our angle with sevens in relation to 15s is completely different to how GB or other larger countries use it. Possibly only Fiji and NZ use the game for a proper compliment to their rugby culture. The rest have too many players or their focus is on the wrong form of the game. we're way too small, and frankly not good enough to dismiss it as a seperate system. Thankfully Baloucoune, Keenan,cormac izuchukwu, Timoney have "come home".

Furthermore i think when the Olympics is done and dusted, Kennedy and COnroy need to be looked at. No use having a sevens game if its not meant to supplement the 15s (which was why the IRFU invested in the 1st place) No point signing three aussie sevens players for Connacht while Kennedy and COnroy do their World Class thing. Ireland doesn't produce enough athletically gifted backs to just dismiss them on old information around their defence. If defence was the only barometer Stockdale wouldn't be a pro. Time to get them back home i say. If SA can pick their star 7s player (uncapped 32 year old Rosko Specman)for the Lions series, well so can we.

I do know from talking to guys like Peter Smyth (IRFU) that they know all about Conroy and Kennedy (Kennedy was highly rated by Smyth at Marys)

The angle on here was Conroy rejected Connacht, but i don't really believe it. Like Dardis, Kennedy i would guess he was inexplicably cut.

TheAnalyst_

Kennedy definitely has a future in 15s. I’m sure a couple more years in the sevens spotlight is more attractive right now.

starkid

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Kennedy definitely has a future in 15s. I’m sure a couple more years in the sevens spotlight is more attractive right now.

yeah very true.

We seem to have a good balance now. Getting 4-5 guys up to speed for professional rugby while giving another 4-5 an opportunity to get something back from the game that they have commited most of their lives to. Which is a great balance. And its why there won't be "ringers" per se.

I mean would Alex Kendellan or Scott Penny or that tier of player be a ringer? They probably only have 5 weeks so the timeline is probably off. Yet its the only reason i can think of that they looked at Crowley and Kendellan.

The most exciting thing is that there is genuinely people in this country who hate rugby but love sport. The Olympics gets our nation going like no Rugby World Cup could. I'm not a huge fan of sevens as i think its future is a split from 15s and it distracts the smaller nations in terms of 15s, therfore damaging the long term goals of rugby (unless they really work at getting it like cricket). Yet in an Irish context its the perfect tool. Encouraging more crossovers, interest, sponsorship. Jackman was giving out about it in regards to womens rugby. I think he's forgetting that we just don't have enough interest here.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

.....

The angle on here was Conroy rejected Connacht, but i don't really believe it. Like Dardis, Kennedy i would guess he was inexplicably cut.

i dont think either of those two things are true.

1. i haven't seen anyone here purport that Conroy was wanted by Connacht but he rejected them, or

2. he was "inexplicably" cut. The general consensus seems to have been that his 15s defence wasn't up to scratch.

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

i dont think either of those two things are true.

1. i haven't seen anyone here purport that Conroy was wanted by Connacht but he rejected them, or

2. he was "inexplicably" cut. The general consensus seems to have been that his 15s defence wasn't up to scratch.

people did say it on the COnnacht forum, actually. so maybe you should read back before you stick your oar in.

Yeah it wasn't i've seen the games for the Eagles. One of the tries he scored was like yesterday, but then he gave up a one on one, with a turnstile tackle. When he was about 22. Give me the natural ability over the coachable mistake any day of the week. Look at JC from then and look at him now. I'd reckon he's about a stone heavier. and even faster.

I've seen you complain calling out people slating young fellas for mistakes. so he was around 22 in those Eagles matches. he was inexplicably cut, considering they've gone on and signed three sevens players. Only one who has so far worked out. Typically Irish

I mean Stockdale has ****e defence and talking to people involved all the way through, he pretty much always had ****e defence. yet he gets a pass cause he has athletic gifts no other player has. As do TK and JC. Anyway after the olympics, if they do the same i expect significant interest from abroad. I know some of the players want to get back. Dardis is on record speaking about it and explains why he got so emotional about it. We're not good enough to be cutting the BD's, TKs and JC's. Personally i hope they rip it up and join the 15s game abroad and stick two fingers up at the morons in the 15s game who cut them. No doubt we'd still have the likes of you spluttering about their defence etc. I'd imagine back when Specman was 22 they had your equivalent going on about his defence. And now here he is uncapped against the Lions. Thankfully the SA union think outside the box. try it for once in a rugby context.

TheAnalyst_

I get the feeling Conroy is a lifelong sevens type player. He could do a job at 15s but would never quite make the cut. His defence looks pretty good now mind

nerd69

Lads speed generally equals being good at 7s but it means less at 15s look at Carlin isles he'd be muck.at 15s. It would be no surprise to me if Conroy was not able for 15s

I doubt 15s players will be joining we don't have a background in changing codes like the likes of nz or Fiji do and it would be a slap in the face for the lads who got us there

starkid

nerd69 wrote: »

Lads speed generally equals being good at 7s but it means less at 15s look at Carlin isles he'd be muck.at 15s. It would be no surprise to me if Conroy was not able for 15s

I doubt 15s players will be joining we don't have a background in changing codes like the likes of nz or Fiji do and it would be a slap in the face for the lads who got us there

There's major differences betweeen Carlin and Conroy. Its ignorant to compare them. Conroy toiled away in division 1b for Buccs - really valued by the club and was top try scorer when he was 22. Carlin was a failed NFL tryout.

South Africa have Specman in their squad. 32, 150 sevens games, 0 caps in 15. Conroy won't get back in because of these types of aspertions. Maybe he doesn't want to. Maybe he's able to become a sevens superstar. get a bootdeal, help grow the game. The point is we can't be complaining about the lack of speed, athletic ability in our backline when this is the reality. And then we have the Ben O'Donnells getting signed with COnnacht, with the exact same type of issue and people just say ah shure. It drives me mad personally. Makes 0 sense. Kennedy is a better example if people can't get over the COnroy defence thing. His dad was an unreal winger capped for Ireland. He has great pedigree, ex leinster academy.

Changing codes has nothing to do with it really. Fiji and NZ tend not to switch either. The reality is 5 weeks is the problem. If it was longer you'd defo look at 1 or 2 academy players. IN rugby terms, Ire getting a medal position would be the equivalent of what happened with Fiji. They'd be getting civic receptions etc. Rugby could genuinely break out of its Michaels enclave (in fairness this is happening ). some of the nations wouldn't even bat an eyelid.

hahashake

They are very different types of fitness, the idea you can throw a 15s player into a squad one month ahead of the Olympics is quite ludicrous.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

people did say it on the COnnacht forum, actually. so maybe you should read back before you stick your oar in.

.

what was this fantastic offer that connacht made conroy that he refused ??

ive read nothing about any more than a paltry academy place at 24 years of age.

the only one who ever wanted to push the story of "the IRFU let one of the best slip through their fingers" was that resident crank / hyperbole king in here.... dont need to say his name in case he appears like candyman.

he was never offered a senior contract by connacht, most likely becuase he wasnt deemed to have enough to his overall game.

starkid

yeah which is why basically nobody is saying that.

1 or two lads were called up to the games before Monaco.

this was the last squad before Monaco:

Ireland men's Sevens Team 1: Jack Kelly (Dublin University), Foster Horan (Lansdowne), Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne), Jude Postlethwaite (Banbridge/Ulster), Adam Leavy (Lansdowne), Billy Dardis (Terenure College), Sean Cribbin (Suttonians), Hugo Lennox (Skerries), Terry Kennedy (St Mary's College), Gavin Mullin (UCD), Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers), Aaron Sexton (Malone/Ulster), Harry McNulty (LA Giltinis)

Ireland men's Sevens Team 2: Ben Moxham (Ballymena/Ulster), Aaron O'Sullivan (Blackrock College/Leinster), Bryan Mollen (Blackrock College), Rory Scholes (Irish Sevens), Liam Turner (Dublin University/Leinster), Conor Phillips (Young Munster/Munster), Mark Roche (Lansdowne), Greg O'Shea (Shannon), Max O'Reilly (Dublin University/Leinster), Duran Krummeck (Irish Sevens), Ed Kelly (Dublin University), Andrew Smith (Clontarf/Leinster)

and i think Kendellan got called in.

Nobody outside of this group is in consideration i would imagine. those in bold are players with genuine 15s futures, and players who would be significant boosts to our medal hopes. It would be harsh for a few players alright.

also plenty of lads in there who are good enough for a country with only about 150 professional rugby players. also alot of guys who have dedicated most of their lives to Irish rubgy either in the AIL or Academies etc. Fair ****s and congrats to all of them.

nerd69

starkid wrote: »

There's major differences betweeen Carlin and Conroy. Its ignorant to compare them. Conroy toiled away in division 1b for Buccs - really valued by the club and was top try scorer when he was 22. Carlin was a failed NFL tryout.

South Africa have Specman in their squad. 32, 150 sevens games, 0 caps in 15. Conroy won't get back in because of these types of aspertions. Maybe he doesn't want to. Maybe he's able to become a sevens superstar. get a bootdeal, help grow the game. The point is we can't be complaining about the lack of speed, athletic ability in our backline when this is the reality. And then we have the Ben O'Donnells getting signed with COnnacht, with the exact same type of issue and people just say ah shure. It drives me mad personally. Makes 0 sense. Kennedy is a better example if people can't get over the COnroy defence thing. His dad was an unreal winger capped for Ireland. He has great pedigree, ex leinster academy.

Changing codes has nothing to do with it really. Fiji and NZ tend not to switch either. The reality is 5 weeks is the problem. If it was longer you'd defo look at 1 or 2 academy players. IN rugby terms, Ire getting a medal position would be the equivalent of what happened with Fiji. They'd be getting civic receptions etc. Rugby could genuinely break out of its Michaels enclave (in fairness this is happening ). some of the nations wouldn't even bat an eyelid.

Kennedy is a much better shout tbh he has more to his game

TheAnalyst_

Is there any footage of Kennedy’s dad playing ? Curious to see.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

South Africa have Specman in their squad. 32, 150 sevens games, 0 caps in 15. .

what reality do you live in?

starkid

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Is there any footage of Kennedy’s dad playing ? Curious to see.

he got 13 caps in the end. I know from talking to people in Mary's, "the rat" as he's known was basically a 1970s version of what we're seeing in junior. he was very light so he faced the same dismissals as COnroy is getting today.

it is a pity that we don't have much footage from the club rugby. I'd imagine at that level some of these guys ran amok.

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

what reality do you live in?

what in gods name are you on about?

Rosko Specman is in reality what i'm talking about. for all intents and purposes a sevens player, who SA eventually deemed the right fit for 15s. Better late than never. i'd bet you 100 quid that COnroy will play 15s at some stage, for some club. but it will be outside of IReland. and we'll have lads like you stating that IReland just doesn't produce enough athletic, quick backs in some resigned debate on boards when we get knocked out of the wc at another QF stage. The Gordan D'arcy "offlaoding isn't in our DNA" level of analysis. He'd probably still be saying that as he watches Kennedy's offload/pass.

so don't try to gaslight me here. he has over 150 caps for SA sevens.

again maybe try to do your research before you come out with your preverse arguing for arguments sake.every rugby forum on here is full of it from you.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

what in gods name are you on about?

you think South Africa have included Rosco Specman in their squad after playing absolutely no 15s rugby???

do you actually seriously believe that???