Irish Rugby and Sevens

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

what in gods name are you on about?

Rosko Specman is in reality what i'm talking about. for all intents and purposes a sevens player, who SA eventually deemed the right fit for 15s. Better late than never.

so don't try to gaslight me here. he has over 150 caps for SA sevens.

again maybe try to do your research before you come out with your preverse arguing for arguments sake.every rugby forum on here is full of it from you.

oh so your THAT type of poster !!!!

goes back and edits when youve been shown to not have a clue about what your on about. just shows you up for what you are. a bluffer LOL

well your post where you try to make out that specman has zero 15s caps is quoted and there for all to see.

those ninja edits are very reminiscent of a particular head the ball crank who used to post in here a lot.... hummm......
another good news thread ruined by an agenda against the IRFU

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

you think South Africa have included Rosco Specman in their squad after playing absolutely no 15s rugby???

do you actually seriously believe that???

he has played 15s i don't deny that. as has Jordan Conroy (albeit at a much lower level)

But show me a 32 year old back getting called into IReland right now? before the 2019 season he hadn't played a whole heap. Mostly the pumas in the curry cup. Obviously a high level. Also SA has about half a million registered players. We have what, 25k. We're not good enough to be dismissing Dardis, Conroy, Kennedy etc. Maybe even jack kelly as well.

My point was really that for all intents and purposes he is a sevens player turned 15s at the highest level. It was in direct response to the idea that there isn't crossover. when there's loads of evidence that there is.

To keep it in context with IReland. Keenan is the most recent example.

I just think it will be regretted if COnroy has spent his whole career playing sevens. I'm in no way shape or form saying he's an Ireland international. But he's worth at least a half dozen games for Connacht to see. Its laughable that people think Connacht are just too good for him. Which is why, as i said, on the connacht forum they say he rejected them. Which would make sense, but i don''t believe it personally. maybe its to save face. Its particularly galling seeing connacht up to Niyis release were the msot likely of the provinces to try moneyball-esque signings. that seems to be over now, much to our shame.

Mimon

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

They should get all the top 15s players involved for the Olympics - the likes of Furlong, Henderson, Murray and Henshaw.

As good as these four are at 15s, none of them are sevens type players.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

he has played 15s i don't deny that. .

starkid wrote: »

South Africa have Specman in their squad. 32, 150 sevens games, 0 caps in 15

LOL

dig upwards

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

oh so your THAT type of poster !!!!

goes back and edits when youve been shown to not have a clue about what your on about. just shows you up for what you are. a bluffer LOL

well your post where you try to make out that specman has zero 15s caps is quoted and there for all to see.

those ninja edits are very reminiscent of a particular head the ball crank who used to post in here a lot.... hummm......
another good news thread ruined by an agenda against the IRFU

give over. zero international caps.

headball? what are you on about. i'm only seeing one head the ball, and looking at your history a very contrarian view, always ready for a row. sound, least i know who to ignore. the edits cause i'm in work. having to reply to a contrarian who is nitpicking and sealioning all over the place. i clearly meant zero internation caps you goof. only one ruining the thread is you.

i made a very reasonable poiint about ringers, and here you come on your high horse (as usual going by the threads and having lurked) going on about stuff with a fine tooth comb.

put your tinfoil away, there's no agenda here.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

give over. zero international caps.

headball? what are you on about. i'm only seeing one head the ball, and looking at your history a very contrarian view, always ready for a row. sound, least i know who to ignore. the edits cause i'm in work. having to reply to a contrarian who is niotpicking and sealioning all over the place. i clearly meant zero internation caps you goof.

yeah whatever

i dont debate with flip floppers and goal post changers.
youve been shown up to be what you are.

enjoy your day

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

LOL

dig upwards

oh you got me there....:rolleyes: why would i say 150 caps and then 0 caps. clearly the two are juxtapositioned. 150 international sevens games, 0 caps for SA.

Seriously i'm not bothered as i knew exactly how many games hes played for the bulls. Obviously he has had to, otherwise why in gods name would he be selected. you seem to be confusing me with another poster, who maybe was dumb. I don;t know. I like to think i'm not dumb.

anyhoo. its fantastic and brilliant. Hopefully they do us proud.

Loved Dardis' interview, it shows how much they sacrifice. i hope some of them find a career in sevens or 15s or whatever it is after the olympics, thats all that matters. and yes ringers would be very harsh. but one or two from the squad before Monaco is probably acceptable. Andrew SMith would be lightening no?

ClanofLams

starkid wrote: »

The angle on here was Conroy rejected Connacht, but i don't really believe it. Like Dardis, Kennedy i would guess he was inexplicably cut.

Who are the three sevens players signed by Connacht you reference in another post? Porch, O’Donnell and ?

I don’t recall that being the angle on here, maybe some poster said it but my understanding and would say view of most Connacht supporters was Conroy was released.

Porch and O’Donnell have extensive backgrounds in rugby union afaik, Porch represented Australian Schoolboys and O’Donnell U-20s. Conroy took up rugby at 18 on the other hand. He’s obviously an incredible athlete but no guarantee he would be a success in 15s.

starkid

ClanofLams wrote: »

Who are the three sevens players signed by Connacht you reference in another post? Porch, O’Donnell and ?

I don’t recall that being the angle on here, maybe some poster said it but my understanding and would say view of most Connacht supporters was Conroy was released.

Porch and O’Donnell have extensive backgrounds in rugby union afaik, Porch represented Australian Schoolboys and O’Donnell U-20s. Conroy took up rugby at 18 on the other hand. He’s obviously an incredible athlete but no guarantee he would be a success in 15s.

yeah maybe i'm wrong on the third. maybe it was a mix up with Mack Hansen in my head.

Porch has been good. BOD has about the same experience from what i can find. Anyway i don't think Conroy not playing for Ire under 20 is any indication of anything. Up until this years 20s we've had a pretty terrible run at thinking outside the box in the clubs. Unless it was for the most obvious candidates like Horgan or SOB. Conroy had some great performances for Buccs.

there's no guarantee no, just like BOD. who hasn't shown anything.

anyway i also included TK in the argument. I know from talking to people involved they see TK as being good enough. I read on the thread before as well some guy said other coaches said the same about COnroy. As i said i know P Smyth really rates them. Its an unlucky miss i suppose. But we can't be complaining about our lack of pace or athletic ability or lack of offloading dna when this is the case. anyway i'd take a 100 euro bet after Conroy tearing up the olypmics some 15s club will give him a go. it just won't be in Ireland, cause something something defence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti6t26qwG7Y as we've seen this isn't a fluke or because of 7s gaps. scored a very similar try for Connacht eagles. You can coach defence, you can't coach this pace or feet. and Tk proves the idea that we are natuarlly good enough to offload, pass whatever. Alot of Irish rugby is based on myth and its great to see sevens expose it. Fair play to the IRFU for backing it in that regard, and hopefully they continue the mix. RB, Keenan, Timoney, CI all got kudos from the game. But yeah maybe Dardis, terry, conroy are destined to be Dan Nortons, and backbones of the programmes. Personally i just think thats a waste. at least until you give them a chance in 15s.

Snickers Man

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Is there any footage of Kennedy’s dad playing ? Curious to see.

Was his Dad the OTHER Terry Kennedy, from the 1970s?

I remember him playing for Ireland (15s). Back in those days wingers hardly ever got the ball while playing for Ireland so his international highlights reel wouldn't be the most spectacular. He was small but tackled like a terrier, as I remember.

That's if we're talking about the same guy.

Lost Ormond

starkid wrote: »

there's a realistic chance of one or two players from the outside are involved. Your Kendellans, Pennys. I'd prob even give Keenan and Balacloune a shot personally (seeing they were there already) Bear in mind Kendellan and Crowley were recently called in for a squad in the last gamess before this tournament.Before that Timoney played, and Cormac Izuchukwu. Its harsh but i'd say a Mollen or a Cribbin could be sacrificied to give us a competing chance. its professional sport, sentiment doesn't come into it. MCNUlty, Horan and Roche deserve it for being in it for the long haul. Kennedy and Conroy are World Class sevens players. Most likely the squad stays the same. But i wouldn't bet against one or two ringers from outside the top table (there's not a chance you'd get any current internationals despite my hope for Keenan).

I dont see it at all. Kendellan, Penny. Why would Munster/Leinster agree to it?
They will be wanted to play provincial games early on in season and have just finished their season and will be going on holidays. They'll really needed to have been prepping for months to get ready to play 7s especially in a tournament at the highest level like the Olympics

If you added one or two to this group, we'd have a genuine medal opportunity. For a country that has a relatively woeful olympic record (compared to similar sized nations) it would be hard to pass that up based on sentiment. And any medal would boost the game here exponentioally imo. Which was probably the whole point in the first place. Our angle with sevens in relation to 15s is completely different to how GB or other larger countries use it. Possibly only Fiji and NZ use the game for a proper compliment to their rugby culture. The rest have too many players or their focus is on the wrong form of the game. we're way too small, and frankly not good enough to dismiss it as a seperate system. Thankfully Baloucoune, Keenan,cormac izuchukwu, Timoney have "come home".

Why would adding some of these guys turn us into genuine medal contenders considering they havent played 7s at an elite level ever or even played much 7s at all?
Winning a medal would boost the sport hugely in Ireland but its incredibly unlikely.

Furthermore i think when the Olympics is done and dusted, Kennedy and COnroy need to be looked at. No use having a sevens game if its not meant to supplement the 15s (which was why the IRFU invested in the 1st place) No point signing three aussie sevens players for Connacht while Kennedy and COnroy do their World Class thing. Ireland doesn't produce enough athletically gifted backs to just dismiss them on old information around their defence. If defence was the only barometer Stockdale wouldn't be a pro. Time to get them back home i say. If SA can pick their star 7s player (uncapped 32 year old Rosko Specman)for the Lions series, well so can we.

Why do Kennedy and Conroy need to be looked at for 15s? They both were given enough opportunities and were not seen as suited to 15s. Doing well in the 7s doesnt mean that has changed.

The angle on here was Conroy rejected Connacht, but i don't really believe it. Like Dardis, Kennedy i would guess he was inexplicably cut.

Why dont you believe it? He got a few shots with Eagles, trained with the squad. Not inexplicably cut.

eagle eye

I'll just name a few who played sevens and fifteens at international level in recent times.
Julian and Ardie Savea, Akira and Rieko Ioane, Beauden Barrett, Augustine Pulu, Cheslin Kolbe, Semi Radradra, Leone Nakarawa, Villiame Mata, Teddy Thomas, Greig Laidlaw, Hamish Watson, Alex Cuthbert and James Davies.
There's plenty more but those are well enough known names.

starkid

Snickers Man wrote: »

Was his Dad the OTHER Terry Kennedy, from the 1970s?

I remember him playing for Ireland (15s). Back in those days wingers hardly ever got the ball while playing for Ireland so his international highlights reel wouldn't be the most spectacular. He was small but tackled like a terrier, as I remember.

That's if we're talking about the same guy.

yeah same guy. I'm friends with his nephew.

starkid

Lost Ormond wrote: »

I dont see it at all. Kendellan, Penny. Why would Munster/Leinster agree to it?
They will be wanted to play provincial games early on in season and have just finished their season and will be going on holidays. They'll really needed to have been prepping for months to get ready to play 7s especially in a tournament at the highest level like the Olympics



Why would adding some of these guys turn us into genuine medal contenders considering they havent played 7s at an elite level ever or even played much 7s at all?
Winning a medal would boost the sport hugely in Ireland but its incredibly unlikely.


Why do Kennedy and Conroy need to be looked at for 15s? They both were given enough opportunities and were not seen as suited to 15s. Doing well in the 7s doesnt mean that has changed.


Why dont you believe it? He got a few shots with Eagles, trained with the squad. Not inexplicably cut.

Kendellan was already called up for a short look, so please don't try to paint me as some sort of crazyman for this point. i didn't say anything about 15s lads like others. Alot of those lads i mentioned actually played sevens so please stop. check the squad in early June if you want. yeah its unlikely, but not impossible. what would adding one or two of these lads have over a Mollen etc. oh i wonder....i think its quite obvious. as well as fitting the whole reason for the IRFU backing this programme after years of neglect and distrust of sevens. Thats why. An Andrew SMith for example. You're not talking about a starter either, maybe a finisher or squad option. and they have a great shot regardless, so not sure what you're on about.

i don;t believe he was offered anything to turn down. thats the point. Posters on the COnnacht forums insist he turned down an offer to concentrate on sevens. Maybe he did, but i don;t beleive it was an offer. Like some of these deals are insulting. 10k a year type of deals. and imo they were given very little chances. maybe you could ask Terry and he'd tell you that. Dardis even spoke about them being cut. the idea that its a black and white and that the IRFU/academies are infallible is a joke of a viewpoint. please stop with the absolutes and sealioning me with questions that can only be answerd with opinion. anyway im not having a pop at the IRFU i genuinely think somethings clicked for them with this.

Like i said if TK and JC go well at the olympics id imagine a few people will have egg on their faces here. what part of IRFU head of elite player devolpment really rates TK as a 15 s player do people not get?

Lost Ormond

starkid wrote: »

Kendellan was already called up so please don't try to paint me as some sort of crazy. Alot of those lads i mentioned actually played sevens so please stop. yeah its unlikely, but not impossible. what would adding one or two of these lads have over a Mollen etc. oh i wonder....

i don;t believe he was offered anything to turn down. thats the point. and imo they were given very little chances. maybe you could ask Terry and he'd tell you that. Dardis even spoke about them being cut. the idea that its a blakc and white and that the IRFU/academies are infallible is a joke of a viewpoint. please stop with the absolutes.

Yes theyve played 7s but its some time since some have and the Olympics starts 5 weeks from today. We are not going to see players added to the squad from those outside the set up at this stage
Any country that added players from outside set up were qualified well in advance of the tournament so had time to bring players in, get them training to adjust to how 7s is played compared to 15s. Play them in tournaments etc to again get them adjusted to 6s

So Connacht had him within the academy set up. He was training in Sportsground day to day and he didnt get enough chances
Im not saying IRFU are infallible at all but we dont need to see these guys playing 15s.

starkid

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Yes theyve played 7s but its some time since some have and the Olympics starts 5 weeks from today. We are not going to see players added to the squad from those outside the set up at this stage
Any country that added players from outside set up were qualified well in advance of the tournament so had time to bring players in, get them training to adjust to how 7s is played compared to 15s. Play them in tournaments etc to again get them adjusted to 6s

So Connacht had him within the academy set up. He was training in Sportsground day to day and he didnt get enough chances
Im not saying IRFU are infallible at all but we dont need to see these guys playing 15s.

yeah and i said that myself.5 weeks window probably gives them very little chance. however they already named two squads in the 3rd of June so you're wrong about that.

if you're going to be make me out as being wrong, try to deal with facts please. i totally accept the 12 players will most likely be the same. however personally i think its short sighted for a country that A) doesn't medal much at all and needs its sevens programme to help its 15s particualrly in an otherwise fairweather fan country where we have people who genuinely detest rugby.
So that means personally i'd take Keenan, RB, and any other pro player that was part of the 7s programme in the last few years, that i could. Now of course they are playing 15s for Ire. so thats not going to happen.

YEt The provinces work for the IRFU not the other way around so i'm sure there's no issue if a a bolter like Andrew Smith appears. it probably won't happen, but its hardly a crazy suggestion. TK and COnroy specifically talked about them spending near 24 hours together, which builds up telepathic understanding so i totally accept its the same 12 in most scenarios. nobody's talking about bloody Furlong playing etc.

The most realistic bolter comes from these two squads - https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/11/ireland-squad-for-world-rugby-sevens-repechage-named/ its genuinely not hard to understand why 1 or 2 of the players could be cut to make room for a fully professional player. Again the reasoning behind our 7s programme is completely different to other countries. i imagine the whole reawson for these two squads was to make assesments and get people on board in the event of us qualifying. WHy couldn't a Liam Turner, who played on the circuit at times, play? and how is it not obvious why it would be good for a Turner to play over an AIL player?

yes again i know all that. he played a few eagles games. thats not the point at all. the point is that he turned down Connacht apparently. all i can say to that is: yeah right.

yeah maybe they don't, but i'd take a bet with you that they will. not in ireland of course. i mean that eagles game where Conroy burnt about 6 players for a try like yesterday, but then turnstiled a 1 on 1 for a leaked try means he's destined to be a 7s player all his career. irish rugby logic. again in the overall context that we have posters regularly crying about our lack of athletic ability, pace or others making excuse after excuse for this very reason as if its a bona fide excuse that it is what it is. when we havwe two genuine superstars in our 7s programme which was funded to work with our 15s.

here's a good interview anyway about the links. good to see it working for us.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/17/my-sevens-experience-robert-baloucoune/

If Conroy was a tackler like RB would people have the same reservations? i mean maybe he's a bit of a messer as well doesn't fit into the montone robots of Irish rugby.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

Like i said if TK and JC go well at the olympics id imagine a few people will have egg on their faces here.

are you trying to create a strawman here?

what poster here does not want TK or JC to go well at the olympics.
please link to any post which says this.

do not try to weasel out of it with goal post moving or ninja editing.

starkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

are you trying to create a strawman here?

what poster here does not want TK or JC to go well at the olympics.
please link to any post which says this.

do not try to weasel out of it with goal post moving or ninja editing.

i didn't mean it like that...in the context of 15s. i'm saying after the olympics in terms of moving on. The pay isn't great apparently and it won't last for ever. its funded but they won't be short on offers...in the more moneyed 15 mans game.

Like you know Dan Norton or the SA lad. He's contracted to a club unlike JC or TK. thats the difference here. Norton may never play for the club but he's got a deal with London Irish. So egg on face was in terms of those who dismiss these lads in terms of the 15 man game. TK will play 15s at some point imo. Might be for a pro d2 club or whatever but its going to happen.

What are they on 30k?

The central contract sytem has a limit for these guys. i know TK hasa ambitions to play 15. as has Dardis.

yeah we don't let our central contracted 15s players play abroad, can we do the same to these guys. IMO we can't. Particularly if the 30k contracts are accurate. getting to the olympics, which was the goal now changes the story. I mean Jackman was giving out about the funding for it in terms of the womens game. This is the other side of the coin. The sevens programme is built to funnel lads back into 15s. So yeah you were right i can't have an axe to grind against the IRFU as they are doing it. THe potential Ulster superstar getting his debut this summer is proof of that.

yet we always need to keep an open mind with the programme imo. and i don't think the fans are giving it any real consideration. hopefully it changes now. i say all this as not a huge fan of sevens, due to the dangers it poses to the main game in developing rugby worldwide. pretty much this is the exact reason the IRFU didn't like it. now they can warehouse players, gain kudos, drive the game etc. but can you do that on 30k a year contracts. no you can't.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

i'm saying after the olympics in terms of moving on. The pay isn't great apparently and it won't last for ever. its funded but they won't be short on offers...in the more moneyed 15 mans game.

Like you know Dan Norton or the SA lad. He's contracted to a club unlike JC or TK. thats the difference here.

What are they on 30k?

The central contract sytem has a limit for these guys. i know TK hasa ambitions to play 15. as has Dardis.

yeah we don't let our central contracted 15s players play abroad, can we do the same to these guys. IMO we can't. Particularly if the 30k contracts are accurate. getting to the olympics, which was the goal now changes the story. I mean Jackman was giving out about the funding for it in terms of the womens game. This is the other side of the coin.

yeah dan norton is a prime example of a player who shines on the 7s stage but is not a high level 15s player. He has a total of 3 premiership caps nine years between his first and second

hes actually not contracted at the moment either.

so a prime example of a top class 7s player who doesnt command much value in the 15s game.

If TK or JC end up earning a wedge at ealing or doncaster then fair dues to them... the sevens circuit is not a place to make money.

i certainly dont expect to see them lining out for exeter or saracens any time soon.

UAEguy2020

Fiji, SA & NZL would be the big favorites but honestly outside of Fiji it really can be a crap shoot the whole thing. If we play at our best and afew cards fall in our favour I could see us sneak maybe a bronze medal but it would be an outside bet.

Lost Ormond

starkid wrote: »

yeah and i said that myself.5 weeks window probably gives them very little chance. however they already named two squads in the 3rd of June so you're wrong about that.

if you're going to be make me out as being wrong, try to deal with facts please. i totally accept the 12 players will most likely be the same. however personally i think its short sighted for a country that A) doesn't medal much at all and needs its sevens programme to help its 15s particualrly in an otherwise fairweather fan country where we have people who genuinely detest rugby.
So that means personally i'd take Keenan, RB, and any other pro player that was part of the 7s programme in the last few years, that i could. Now of course they are playing 15s for Ire. so thats not going to happen.

YEt The provinces work for the IRFU not the other way around so i'm sure there's no issue if a a bolter like Andrew Smith appears. it probably won't happen, but its hardly a crazy suggestion. TK and COnroy specifically talked about them spending near 24 hours together, which builds up telepathic understanding so i totally accept its the same 12 in most scenarios. nobody's talking about bloody Furlong playing etc.

The most realistic bolter comes from these two squads - https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/11/ireland-squad-for-world-rugby-sevens-repechage-named/ its genuinely not hard to understand why 1 or 2 of the players could be cut to make room for a fully professional player. Again the reasoning behind our 7s programme is completely different to other countries. i imagine the whole reawson for these two squads was to make assesments and get people on board in the event of us qualifying. WHy couldn't a Liam Turner, who played on the circuit at times, play? and how is it not obvious why it would be good for a Turner to play over an AIL player?

yes again i know all that. he played a few eagles games. thats not the point at all. the point is that he turned down Connacht apparently. all i can say to that is: yeah right.

yeah maybe they don't, but i'd take a bet with you that they will. not in ireland of course. i mean that eagles game where Conroy burnt about 6 players for a try like yesterday, but then turnstiled a 1 on 1 for a leaked try means he's destined to be a 7s player all his career. irish rugby logic. again in the overall context that we have posters regularly crying about our lack of athletic ability, pace or others making excuse after excuse for this very reason as if its a bona fide excuse that it is what it is. when we havwe two genuine superstars in our 7s programme which was funded to work with our 15s.

here's a good interview anyway about the links. good to see it working for us.

https://www.irishrugby.ie/2021/06/17/my-sevens-experience-robert-baloucoune/

If Conroy was a tackler like RB would people have the same reservations? i mean maybe he's a bit of a messer as well doesn't fit into the montone robots of Irish rugby.

You love your ninja edits dont you? Youve edited your posts 20 minutes later several times now. why is that??
Im wrong about what?
Genuine superstars in 7s doesnt mean they will be very good in 15s. These players have been looked at in 15s ....
Fully pros in 15s wont necessarily be good at 7s especially with as short a lead in to the Olympics as these guys will have.

starkid

d

Lost Ormond wrote: »

You love your ninja edits dont you? Youve edited your posts 20 minutes later several times now. why is that??
Im wrong about what?
Genuine superstars in 7s doesnt mean they will be very good in 15s. These players have been looked at in 15s ....
Fully pros in 15s wont necessarily be good at 7s especially with as short a lead in to the Olympics as these guys will have.

ah will you stop. im at work right...you love an original thought i see. parroting syd.

you're wrong about the idea that the 12 is set in stone. they bloody named two squads for a repechange in June. Christ.

yeah i get that. but these pros played bloody sevens in the last year or so. stop painting me as being crazy for pointing out factual info. christ on a ****ing bike. i gave you the link to the squad. https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/irelands-top-young-rugby-talent-line-up-for-irfu-academy-7s-tournament-39628660.html heres some lads who have experience for example recently enough. they were/are clearly considering Kendellan, Smith and one or two other lads.

Norton signed a short term deal. must be over now

heres a good article -

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/aug/25/sevens-star-dan-norton-we-gave-10-years-to-the-rfu-it-was-gutting

thew whole point is there was a furore already over the contracts. after the olympics its only going to get more messy. in some sense maybe qualifying was the easy part for the programme.

yeah they were looked at and cut. And as the case with Balacloune (who was also cut according to him) they can sometimes fess up to mistakes. doesn't mean they were given a real shot. as i'll repeat again for posterity Peter Smyth head of elite player development for the IRFU highly rates TK as a 15s player.

i'll give you a few guesses as to why Dan Norton and English rugby isn't comparable to Ireland.

sydthebeat

as an aside... just to show how little money is in world rugby sevens...

the RFU have cut the sevens programme in england.
England are taking part in the olympics under the GB banner

english sevens players themsleves have had to go out looking for funding to reingnite the program, and actually started a crown fund scheme to get england the the olympics... luckily saved with national lottery funding to send the GB team over to Tokyo.

anyone who thinks they can make money on the sevens circuit is kidding themselves.
Thus you get young guys giving it a go at academy stage etc before taking a 15s contact of they are good enough.

there are many examples of long term superstars on the sevens programme who never made it as 15s players. Collins Injera, Terry Bouhraoua, Tim Mikkelson, DJ Forbes and the great Waisale Serevi etc

starkid

will it eventually become a separate game do you think? i mean is it good for the development of the 15 man game? or is it a fun 1 day cricket equivalent? some argue that has damaged test cricket.

ClanofLams

starkid wrote: »

yeah maybe i'm wrong on the third. maybe it was a mix up with Mack Hansen in my head.

Porch has been good. BOD has about the same experience from what i can find. Anyway i don't think Conroy not playing for Ire under 20 is any indication of anything. Up until this years 20s we've had a pretty terrible run at thinking outside the box in the clubs. Unless it was for the most obvious candidates like Horgan or SOB. Conroy had some great performances for Buccs.

there's no guarantee no, just like BOD. who hasn't shown anything.

Well I don’t think O’Donnell made the Australia U-20s team after picking up a rugby a year earlier so it is very likely he has several more years of rugby under his belt at 15s compared to Conroy.

O’Donnell has had a couple of decent showings for Connacht, nothing amazing but enough to give promise he will kick on next season having only returned from long term injury halfway through this season.


Conroy got an opportunity at Connacht and it didn’t work out for whatever reasons. I know Kennedy was involved with the u-20s under Nigel Carolan who was quick to bring in players not getting a chance elsewhere if he thought they had a chance at making it and Kennedy obviously didn’t end up in Connacht.

Would imagine sevens improves certain aspects of players and some players also kick on naturally at a later age when they physically mature or get a clean break from injuries etc so not ruling out Conroy/Kennedy switching back to 15s and excelling.

I don’t really see what Connacht bringing in a couple of sevens players who Andy Friend knows well in terms of their abilities has to do with these players not getting a sufficient chance in your opinion.

sydthebeat

starkid wrote: »

will it eventually become a separate game do you think? i mean is it good for the development of the 15 man game? or is it a fun 1 day cricket equivalent? some argue that has damaged test cricket.

i think its already a separate game.

many of the teams that are regular on the WR7s circuit have squads of dedicated (as in specialised) sevens players.
occasionally youll get a 15s player cross over like a nakawara or radradra who will shine, but generally the best players are sevens specialists.

ive never been to a WR7s day, but i know many who have gone to dubai or hong kong and tell me its a great day out as an event. Thats its attraction and how it should be sold.

Squidgy Black

starkid wrote: »

will it eventually become a separate game do you think? i mean is it good for the development of the 15 man game? or is it a fun 1 day cricket equivalent? some argue that has damaged test cricket.

I don't think it will to be honest, the appetite isn't there for it.

You could argue that it's an easier way to get into the sport, particularly in the likes of schools and other areas that wouldn't be traditional rugby backgrounds, but the funding and the demand hasn't really increased significantly, to the point that there's any return for unions to do it without going bust. 15s will always be the money maker and as a result get more attention.

starkid

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I don't think it will to be honest, the appetite isn't there for it.

You could argue that it's an easier way to get into the sport, particularly in the likes of schools and other areas that wouldn't be traditional rugby backgrounds, but the funding and the demand hasn't really increased significantly, to the point that there's any return for unions to do it without going bust. 15s will always be the money maker and as a result get more attention.

no i think you misunderstand me. I know all that.

i mean in terms of what i was saying earlier.i meant more for other for other countries. Its not necessarily a good thing for rugby union if countries focus more on sevens. Kenya look like they have genuinely amazing players. its a shame its basically the same argument as COnroy. Oh but they're only sevens players etc. which leads to the seperation of the sports. and we lose genuine talent.

i think its the whole point of the irish sevens and why the IRFU mistrusted it for so long.

is there a dangrer of it becoming a second sport? and to answer my own question, imo yes there is. its techinaclly easier, less people needed, more exciting (not for me) etc

starkid

ClanofLams wrote: »

Well I don’t think O’Donnell made the Australia U-20s team after picking up a rugby a year earlier so it is very likely he has several more years of rugby under his belt at 15s compared to Conroy.

O’Donnell has had a couple of decent showings for Connacht, nothing amazing but enough to give promise he will kick on next season having only returned from long term injury halfway through this season.


Conroy got an opportunity at Connacht and it didn’t work out for whatever reasons. I know Kennedy was involved with the u-20s under Nigel Carolan who was quick to bring in players not getting a chance elsewhere if he thought they had a chance at making it and Kennedy obviously didn’t end up in Connacht.

Would imagine sevens improves certain aspects of players and some players also kick on naturally at a later age when they physically mature or get a clean break from injuries etc so not ruling out Conroy/Kennedy switching back to 15s and excelling.

I don’t really see what Connacht bringing in a couple of sevens players who Andy Friend knows well in terms of their abilities has to do with these players not getting a sufficient chance in your opinion.

i think if you don't get the last point in this context of Irish sevens then they'res no point even discussing it. the whole reason the IRFU has decided to fund it is partly for this reason (cycle sevens guys in and out of the 15 man game) so i'm unsure how you don't see the connection. giving a go to some Australian lad based on his sevens performances while we don't look at two Irish superstars is particularly Irish. It doesn't matter if they were looked at. They've clearly improved. Conroy's defence is much much better, he's about a stone heavier as well. COnnacht are the weakest of the provinces, a traditional development province. I think cutting Niyi was the end of that experiement. SOmetimes they get caught in between stools, taking punts or giving guys clearly not good enough contracts. You've got two genuine talents there. I've watch ed TK play for Mary's he's as good as Healy was for Landsdowne when they took a punt on him. IMO its madness. and after the olympics you'll start to see people ask this question. i've already heard it from people involved in professional rugby. its a no brainer. thats on top of the **** money involved and their increased bargaining positions.

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

as an aside... just to show how little money is in world rugby sevens...

the RFU have cut the sevens programme in england.
England are taking part in the olympics under the GB banner

english sevens players themsleves have had to go out looking for funding to reingnite the program, and actually started a crown fund scheme to get england the the olympics... luckily saved with national lottery funding to send the GB team over to Tokyo.

anyone who thinks they can make money on the sevens circuit is kidding themselves.
Thus you get young guys giving it a go at academy stage etc before taking a 15s contact of they are good enough.

there are many examples of long term superstars on the sevens programme who never made it as 15s players. Collins Injera, Terry Bouhraoua, Tim Mikkelson, DJ Forbes and the great Waisale Serevi etc

Are you saying they're going as GB instead of England because of budget cuts?

I'm pretty sure that would have happened anyway. It was a GB team in 2016 too. They lost 45-7 in the gold medal match to Fiji, if I recall correctly.