Irish Rugby and Sevens

Jump_In_Jack

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's still a UK team. If there were no sportspeople from one of England, Scotland, Wales or NI on the team in a certain sport it wouldn't change the fact that they are representing GB&NI. What the IRFU do or say is irrelevant.



The IRFU making a unilateral statement really has very little relevance. If a British citizen from Northern Ireland wanted to represent team GB then there is nothing the IRFU could do to stop it. Of course, it would damage such an individual's chances of getting an IRFU contract later on. But that's a separate matter.

There are plenty of valued Ulster players in the Irish 7's squad, none have legally contested the fact that they are not eligible to represent the Great Britain 7's team. No Irish player was considered to play for Great Britain. That's the simple fact of the matter as it stands. I pointed it out to you already, you don't follow rugby 7's much if you didn't already know this.

Richie_Rich89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

There are plenty of valued Ulster players in the Irish 7's squad, none have legally contested the fact that they are not eligible to represent the Great Britain 7's team. No Irish player was considered to play for Great Britain. That's the simple fact of the matter as it stands. I pointed it out to you already, you don't follow rugby 7's much if you didn't already know this.

Different sports have different traditions. In boxing, Northern Irish fighters generally represent Ireland, even if they are Protestant, like Carl Frampton.

In rugby it's easier if they just select from Britain, as that's how things are broken down outside the Olympics. That doesn't change the fact that when they're heading to the Olympics, they are representing Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That's how it works. You don't have to like it, but it's a UK team. GB&NI is a bit of a mouthful, so it is just shortened to Team GB.

There is no eligibility issue to contest. If they are British citizens from the North they are eligible for consideration for team GB.

starkid

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

It's still a UK team. If there were no sportspeople from one of England, Scotland, Wales or NI on the team in a certain sport it wouldn't change the fact that they are representing GB&NI. What the IRFU do or say is irrelevant.



The IRFU making a unilateral statement really has very little relevance. If a British citizen from Northern Ireland wanted to represent team GB then there is nothing the IRFU could do to stop it. Of course, it would damage such an individual's chances of getting an IRFU contract later on. But that's a separate matter.

there would be loads of technical isses. their insurance etc is covered by the IRFU. as well as their contracts. they couldn't play for GB. thats the reality. the player would have to retire from the province and Irish system. An AIL player, or one outside the system, sure they could do it. as is happening. but no contracted Ulster player can play for GB.

Richie_Rich89

starkid wrote: »

there would be loads of technical isses. their insurance etc is covered by the IRFU. as well as their contracts. they couldn't play for GB. thats the reality. the player would have to retire from the province and Irish system. An AIL player, or one outside the system, sure they could do it. as is happening. but no contracted Ulster player can play for GB.

Yeah, that's the reality of the situation. A player contracted to the IRFU isn't going to damage his future employment opportunities to play in a competition that happens once every four years.

It's a shame in a way that the IRFU take such a hardline stance. I for one would be delighted to see someone like Robert Baloucoune win an Olympic medal while playing for Team GB.

starkid

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Yeah, that's the reality of the situation. A player contracted to the IRFU isn't going to damage his future employment opportunities to play in a competition that happens once every four years.

It's a shame in a way that the IRFU take such a hardline stance. I for one would be delighted to see someone like Robert Baloucoune win an Olympic medal while playing for Team GB.

nah not for me. Would be hugely damaging to Irish rugby. cause division in the one area where we are actually United in some stance.

strange attitude to take.

i mean why couldn't he just play for Ireland, like you know, he did before? he's the one guy i'd say you know what divert your attention back to Irish sevens for the month. Even if he had to wait to get capped in November. We genuinely would have a medal chance with him and one or two others on the squad. Keenan as well. those two i'd think we'd have a huge chance to medal.

its not an IRFU stance. they are insured and contracted by the IRFU. why would the IRFU insure them for GB?

theres more chance of Jordan COnroy getting a contract with Connacht than there is an Ulster player playing with GB.

Jump_In_Jack

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Yeah, that's the reality of the situation. A player contracted to the IRFU isn't going to damage his future employment opportunities to play in a competition that happens once every four years.

It's a shame in a way that the IRFU take such a hardline stance. I for one would be delighted to see someone like Robert Baloucoune win an Olympic medal while playing for Team GB.

Good man, all this because I pointed out that you changed the name of the team.

I’d much rather see the Irish team win a medal.

Richie_Rich89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Good man, all this because I pointed out that you changed the name of the team.

I’d much rather see the Irish team win a medal.

Well, of course. So would I. I mean I would be happy for Baloucoune on a personal level.

Richie_Rich89

starkid wrote: »

nah not for me. Would be hugely damaging to Irish rugby. cause division in the one area where we are actually United in some stance.

strange attitude to take.

i mean why couldn't he just play for Ireland, like you know, he did before? he's the one guy i'd say you know what divert your attention back to Irish sevens for the month. Even if he had to wait to get capped in November. We genuinely would have a medal chance with him and one or two others on the squad. Keenan as well. those two i'd think we'd have a huge chance to medal.

its not an IRFU stance. they are insured and contracted by the IRFU. why would the IRFU insure them for GB?

theres more chance of Jordan COnroy getting a contract with Connacht than there is an Ulster player playing with GB.

Their identity is a complex issue for a lot of people from Northern Ireland. I remember hearing or reading somewhere that Willie Faloon said his favourite moment watching rugby was seeing Scotland beat England in a game.

I think it would be quite small-minded to hold it against someone if they wanted to play for Team GB. It really is a personal decision.

eagle eye

[quote=Jump_In_Jack No Irish player was considered to play for Great Britain. That's the simple fact of the matter as it stands. I pointed it out to you already, you don't follow rugby 7's much if you didn't already know this.[/quote]
That's pretty insulting. I knew nothing about that but I'd be confident I know as much if not more about the game than you.

Jump_In_Jack

eagle eye wrote: »

That's pretty insulting. I knew nothing about that but I'd be confident I know as much if not more about the game than you.

I don’t know what to tell you, I’ve known it for years.
The qualification campaign has been talked about for ages, anyone with a passing interest should have worked it out ages ago.

eagle eye

Jump_In_Jack wrote:

I don’t know what to tell you, I’ve known it for years. The qualification campaign has been talked about for ages, anyone with a passing interest should have worked it out ages ago.

That's fine but you can still know loads about the game and not have any idea about Olympic qualification.

Jump_In_Jack

eagle eye wrote: »

That's fine but you can still know loads about the game and not have any idea about Olympic qualification.

I honestly don’t know how you could have followed rugby 7’s and never knew that.
You realise we had a warm-up tournament only 2 weeks ago in Dublin against Great Britain, how did you not notice it then?

Lost Ormond

Wonder what games we'll play/who we may play now we've qualified in warm ups for Tokyo


And for 7s overall i hope IRFU really work on bringing in more 7s tournaments at all levels now across country

Squidgy Black

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Wonder what games we'll play/who we may play now we've qualified in warm ups for Tokyo


And for 7s overall i hope IRFU really work on bringing in more 7s tournaments at all levels now across country

Wouldn't be too surprised if there was a mini tournament setup similar to what Aus/NZ/Fiji have arranged, but with GB/Ire and someone else (possibly South Africa, although travel makes that a bit difficult).

Lost Ormond

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Wouldn't be too surprised if there was a mini tournament setup similar to what Aus/NZ/Fiji have arranged, but with GB/Ire and someone else (possibly South Africa, although travel makes that a bit difficult).

We've played GB already. Though yeah we could play them again
Would be surprised SA as you say travel would be an issue..

Maybe France or another european side. Spain but would be surprised if that happened.

Squidgy Black

Lost Ormond wrote: »

We've played GB already. Though yeah we could play them again
Would be surprised SA as you say travel would be an issue..

Maybe France or another european side. Spain but would be surprised if that happened.

Depends on the appetite for other nations who haven't qualified for the Olympics to travel/play I guess. Unless the IRFU are going to pay a decent match fee, the French or Spanish unions probably won't be too keen on it considering their season is over. The HPC tournament as a warm up for the repechage was teams all in the repechage for example.

Cosmo Kramer

It would make sense to have another short series against Britain before they go. It would probably suit both nations as there aren't any other competing nations within easy travelling distance - Canada and the US would be closest but probably difficult to arrange at short notice at the moment.

The only issue might be if Ireland and Britain are drawn in the same group in Tokyo.

Richie_Rich89

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

I honestly don’t know how you could have followed rugby 7’s and never knew that.
You realise we had a warm-up tournament only 2 weeks ago in Dublin against Great Britain, how did you not notice it then?

I wonder whether it will be the flag of Great Britain...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Great_Britain

or the flag of the UK...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom

that is raised should Team GB win a medal.

eagle eye

Richie_Rich89 wrote:

I wonder whether it will be the flag of Great Britain...

or the flag of the UK

that is raised should Team GB win a medal.

Does it really matter? Both are Union Jacks.

Lost Ormond

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Depends on the appetite for other nations who haven't qualified for the Olympics to travel/play I guess. Unless the IRFU are going to pay a decent match fee, the French or Spanish unions probably won't be too keen on it considering their season is over. The HPC tournament as a warm up for the repechage was teams all in the repechage for example.

Yeah thats big question. Just might be something different ahead of the Olympics to play another side that could benefit us ahead of the trip to Japan having played GB several times already.
I wouldnt think match fee would come in.

sydthebeat

Ireland get a good pool draw
In with South Africa, USA and kenya

thebaz

sydthebeat wrote: »

Ireland get a good pool draw
In with South Africa, USA and kenya

yeah decent group, should at least qualify from that group - then in knockout fingers crossed -

Think a semi final does not guarantee a medal , have to win the 3rd place game - pity

ionadnapokot

Still a hard enough group. USA are vgood. Kenya were always 7 specialists, not great lately.
I presume qualification is same to 2016...Top 2 out of 3 groups and 2 of the best 3rd place teams.

sydthebeat

thebaz wrote: »

yeah decent group, should at least qualify from that group - then in knockout fingers crossed -

Think a semi final does not guarantee a medal , have to win the 3rd place game - pity

I certainly wouldn't say "should at least qualify"......

USA and SA would be hot favs to qualify from that group

thebaz

sydthebeat wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't say "should at least qualify"......

USA and SA would be hot favs to qualify from that group

Well with third place probably qualifying , it would be a major dissapointment if they don't qualify for knockout.

Richie_Rich89

Pretty good draw, you'd have to say. They've had the upper hand over Kenya recently, and there have been some good wins over the USA too in the last few years.

I think Ireland have got a better draw than the other bottom seeds anyway.

NZ
Australia
Argentina
South Korea

Fiji
GB&NI
Canada
Japan

Lost Ormond

thebaz wrote: »

yeah decent group, should at least qualify from that group - then in knockout fingers crossed -

Think a semi final does not guarantee a medal, have to win the 3rd place game - pity

Wouldnt really say should at least qualify from group and yeah we have to win a 3rd place playoff to medal

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Still a hard enough group. USA are vgood. Kenya were always 7 specialists, not great lately.
I presume qualification is same to 2016...Top 2 out of 3 groups and 2 of the best 3rd place teams.

Yeah top 2 and the 2 best 3rd placed from the groups.

Kenya have dropped off from the high level they were 3/4 years ago but for one off tournament like this will be tricky...

Dodge

FWIW there was no draw. Pools decided by results in the last 2 World Series

South Africa and USA far stronger than Ireland in sevens in recent years but so were France and look what happened there

Rigor Mortis

USA are beatable, as evidenced by the recent practice tournament. If it is three pool winners and best runner up Ireland could definitely make a semi. Thats a decent crack at a medal.

Lost Ormond

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

USA are beatable, as evidenced by the recent practice tournament. If it is three pool winners and best runner up Ireland could definitely make a semi. Thats a decent crack at a medal.

Its quarter finals. 8 of the 12 sides qualify for knock outs