Irish Rugby and Sevens

The Lost Sheep

Draw for round 1 of the european grand prix series has been made for mens and womens teams.
For the first round of mens competition which is on in Russia on June 4th/5th we are in group A with Germany, Goergia and Wales. Group B is Italy, Poland, Russia and Spain and Group C is England, France, Belgium and Portugal.

For round 1 of womens series which is on in France on June 18th/19th
Ireland are in group C with England, Italy and Portugal.
Group A is Holland, Poland, Russia and Spain while Group B is France, Belgium, Wales and Sweden

sjwpjw

I think sevens is a fantastic sport in its own right.

I would be very interested in knowing when the schools underage competitions are on. I am only aware of one in Ulster at Campbell in late March which is u15 and u18. Campbell always run it very well.

The Lost Sheep

sjwpjw wrote: »

I think sevens is a fantastic sport in its own right.

I would be very interested in knowing when the schools underage competitions are on. I am only aware of one in Ulster at Campbell in late March which is u15 and u18. Campbell always run it very well.

There isn't always one in each province and they are almost always treated in a development sense rather than fully competitive.

There has 7s competitions ran at u15/17 levels in some seasons but theyre not an annual occurance. 7s competitions are good chances for smaller/"non-traditional" schools to compete and beat bigger/"more traditional" schools as has been the case when some 7s competitions have been held in Munster and schools like Nenagh CBS/Waterpark College have been the winners ahead of the usual suspects...

The Lost Sheep

The Irish Rugby Football Union has announced the hosting of the inaugural IRFU Rugby Sevens Festival which take place in early April at Terenure College RFC, Dublin .

The festival will comprise of three different Rugby Sevens tournaments, held on separate days from Wednesday April 5th through to Friday April 7th.
This is the first festival of its kind to be run by the IRFU and with teams from all over Ireland to participate, it promises to be an enthusiastic and sizeable inaugural tournament.

Colleges, u19 male and female competitions and girl u15 competition.
http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/39099

The Lost Sheep

Good to see this pilot scheme run by Leinster Rugby and the IRFU to introduce 7's Rugby to schools. With this in mind Transition Year students were picked for training with their school team. This opportunity was open to players from all sports.
School teams from each of the counties attended a blitz in their counties in March and players were selected from there to attend training in the run up to the blitz in Donnybrook today.
Todays blitz was attended by Counties - Louth, Meath, Fingal and schools - Wesley Collage, Castleknock and high school.
County sides played each other and the school sides played each other and then they played 1 of the sides in the other competition depending on how they did in phase 1

FellasFellas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Good to see this pilot scheme run by Leinster Rugby and the IRFU to introduce 7's Rugby to schools. With this in mind Transition Year students were picked for training with their school team. This opportunity was open to players from all sports.
School teams from each of the counties attended a blitz in their counties in March and players were selected from there to attend training in the run up to the blitz in Donnybrook today.
Todays blitz was attended by Counties - Louth, Meath, Fingal and schools - Wesley Collage, Castleknock and high school.
County sides played each other and the school sides played each other and then they played 1 of the sides in the other competition depending on how they did in phase 1

I seem to remember you a while back suggesting that Ireland should not invest any money or pursue mens 7's or domestic 7's and pump all the money into tag? Has your view changed?

The Lost Sheep

FellasFellas wrote: »

I seem to remember you a while back suggesting that Ireland should not invest any money or pursue mens 7's or domestic 7's and pump all the money into tag? Has your view changed?

Yes in some extent but tag needs to be used much more than it is. I didnt want 7s if money was diverted from tag which clearly has much greater ability to expand and widen the playing base and develop the sport better at grass roots.

sjwpjw

I was at the schools event at Terenure today.  Disappointing turnout with some schools pulling out last minute etc but the kids who were there really enjoyed it.  Lovely trophy etc.
u15 girls' tournament tomorrow apparently.

The Lost Sheep

sjwpjw wrote:

I was at the schools event at Terenure today. Disappointing turnout with some schools pulling out last minute etc but the kids who were there really enjoyed it. Lovely trophy etc. u15 girls' tournament tomorrow apparently.

How many competed in the end?
Shame no regular competitions in 7s and shame some pulled out especially considering it's so near Easter.
Yeah girls u15 tomorrow to end the festival.

sjwpjw

King's Hospital.  Dalriada.  Wilson's Hospital.  Newbridge.  Garbally.  Ballyclare High.  Plus 8 u19 girls' teams.

The Lost Sheep

World Series qualifiers were played at the weekend. Spain won mens competition so will be on world series next year

The 12-team qualifier involved Chile, Germany, Guyana, Hong Kong, Jamaica, Namibia, Papua New Guinea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Tonga, Uganda and Uruguay.

San Francisco’s scenic AT&T Park will host the Rugby World Cup Sevens from July 20 to 22 in 2018. The mens tournament will comprise of 24 teams while the womens tournament will be made up of 18 teams.
We should certainly make both competitions.

Womens team are 9th of the 11 teams after 3 of the 6 rounds of this seasons world series.
As mentioned in post #182 we play in european grand series in June. This is level below world series and we would need to do well in that to get up to playing in world series qualifying competition

The Lost Sheep

IRFU Director of Sevens Rugby, Anthony Eddy and Coach Stan McDowell have confirmed an extended Men’s 7s squad who will be training during May
and will compete in the Rugby Europe Grand Prix next month.

They will be looking to claim a place at the Hong Kong 7s Repechage next year, where the winner of that tournament will qualify for the World Rugby Sevens World Series for the 2018/19 season. They can achieve this by finishing as one of the top two placed sides (outside of those who are not already a core team on the series) over the course of the Grand Prix.

The second big opportunity is qualification for the Sevens Rugby World Cup in San Francisco next summer.

The Rugby Europe Grand Prix offers two places to nations outside of those who are already pre-qualified from the 2013 Moscow World Cup or via this season’s World Series.
The European sides who have already qualified are England, Wales and France, while Scotland look set to gain a spot via this season’s World Series.

Ireland Men’s 7s Squad
David Busby (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Aaron Cairns (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Fionn Carr (Naas)
Will Connors (UCD/Leinster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Shane Daly (Cork Con/Munster)
Billy Dardis (UCD)
Evan Dixon (Dublin University)
Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Ned Hodson (Cork Con/Munster)
Foster Horan (Lansdowne)
Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)
Conor Kelly (Queens University/Ulster)
Terry Kennedy (St. Mary’s/Leinster)
Shane Layden (Buccaneers)
Adam Leavy (Galwegians/Connacht)
Conor Lowndes (Galwegians/Connacht)
Mick McGrath (Clontarf)
Steve McMahon (Garryowen/Munster)
Harry McNulty (UCD)
Bryan Mollen (Dublin University)
Jimmy O’Brien (UCD/Leinster)
John O’Donnell (Lansdowne)
James O’Donovan (Trinity)
Edward O’Keeffe (Galwegians)
Greg O’Shea (Shannon/Munster)
Mark Roche (Lansdowne)
Josh Rowland (Galwegians)
Tom Stapley (Ballynahinch)
Nick Timoney (Queens University/Ulster)
Steve Toal-Lennon (Exile)

Rugby Europe Grand Prix:

May 3rd /4th – Moscow
June 10/11th – Lodz
July 1st/2nd – St. Etienne
July 15th/16th – Exeter

http://munsterrugby.ie/domestic_news/con-duo-selected-for-7s-training-squad/

The Lost Sheep

Dublin 7s festival held in Old Belvedere over the weekend.
Had been in Donnybrook last year, was at it, but crowds werent that great so it moved to Belvedere

Irish Wolfhounds national side won the elite competition beating an Irish Qualified side in the final.

.ak

I played in the open 7s section. We threw together a Clontarf team, J3/4/5 sorta level, most of us hadn't played 7s before and we only got a couple of training sessions in, when we got down we weren't sure what the level would be like but we found out there was another team from the club and Matt D'Arcy was playing for them... So that gave us an idea what to expect... Big gulf there Great craic tho, will defo play more over the summer, teaches you a lot about passing under pressure, defence and footwork. As a back it's great fun when you have ball in hand, not so much when you're defending..

Great festival, didn't get to go to the one last year, didn't expect much but it was a great craic, some party afterwards too, very much a social event where the beer'ing was far more important than the sport. I will definitely be doing the one next year.

Got to watch some of the elite level and women's 7s during breaks between games. The womens 7s was great, have to say the Welsh 1 really impressed me, Jasmin Joyce, she was class, plays for the GB 7s team too, seemed to be a class above everyone else on the pitch. Mick McGrath was class for the Wolfhounds as well.

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

I played in the open 7s section. We threw together a Clontarf team, J3/4/5 sorta level, most of us hadn't played 7s before and we only got a couple of training sessions in, when we got down we weren't sure what the level would be like but we found out there was another team from the club and Matt D'Arcy was playing for them... So that gave us an idea what to expect... Big gulf there Great craic tho, will defo play more over the summer, teaches you a lot about passing under pressure, defence and footwork. As a back it's great fun when you have ball in hand, not so much when you're defending..

Great festival, didn't get to go to the one last year, didn't expect much but it was a great craic, some party afterwards too, very much a social event where the beer'ing was far more important than the sport. I will definitely be doing the one next year.

Got to watch some of the elite level and women's 7s during breaks between games. The womens 7s was great, have to say the Welsh 1 really impressed me, Jasmin Joyce, she was class, plays for the GB 7s team too, seemed to be a class above everyone else on the pitch. Mick McGrath was class for the Wolfhounds as well.

Yeah standard was high last year as well in clubs. Mainly AIL/J1 players.
Really hope it kicks on. Perhaps Belvedere suits it better but would be great down the line if it expanded so needed to be played in Donnybrook again.

.ak

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yeah standard was high last year as well in clubs. Mainly AIL/J1 players.
Really hope it kicks on. Perhaps Belvedere suits it better but would be great down the line if it expanded so needed to be played in Donnybrook again.

Yeah, we were defo out of our depth but it was good fun all the same, got to throw the ball around with some AIL players and for the most part held our own until we'd start leaking tries in the 2nd halves. Last game came went 5-5 until the last few min and we leaked a couple of tries.

It'd be nicer if it was graded a bit better, but considering we only made up the team a week before the festival I'd say they were too tight on numbers to actually grade teams.

Yeah the Belvo gang put on a great day I have to say and the club made the ideal space for a festival. Loads of room for the big stage, beer tents, food stalls, and the party area around the club house itself.

The fact it was mixed with the tag festival that's on there at this time of year really helped as well.

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

Yeah, we were defo out of our depth but it was good fun all the same, got to throw the ball around with some AIL players and for the most part held our own until we'd start leaking tries in the 2nd halves. Last game came went 5-5 until the last few min and we leaked a couple of tries.

It'd be nicer if it was graded a bit better, but considering we only made up the team a week before the festival I'd say they were too tight on numbers to actually grade teams.

Yeah the Belvo gang put on a great day I have to say and the club made the ideal space for a festival. Loads of room for the big stage, beer tents, food stalls, and the party area around the club house itself.

The fact it was mixed with the tag festival that's on there at this time of year really helped as well.

To be fair the 7s is marketed as an open 7s so will generally get the top sides, AIL/j1+2 players but as you say unless you get enough sides competing then it cant be graded. Donnybrook is rather tight on space but worked well. With the stage in bective end car park and just a players/vip area at back of bective club house. Mixing it with the tag festival will have helped with more people around all day

RichieRich89

.ak wrote: »

I played in the open 7s section. We threw together a Clontarf team, J3/4/5 sorta level, most of us hadn't played 7s before and we only got a couple of training sessions in, when we got down we weren't sure what the level would be like but we found out there was another team from the club and Matt D'Arcy was playing for them... So that gave us an idea what to expect... Big gulf there Great craic tho, will defo play more over the summer, teaches you a lot about passing under pressure, defence and footwork. As a back it's great fun when you have ball in hand, not so much when you're defending..

Great festival, didn't get to go to the one last year, didn't expect much but it was a great craic, some party afterwards too, very much a social event where the beer'ing was far more important than the sport. I will definitely be doing the one next year.

Got to watch some of the elite level and women's 7s during breaks between games. The womens 7s was great, have to say the Welsh 1 really impressed me, Jasmin Joyce, she was class, plays for the GB 7s team too, seemed to be a class above everyone else on the pitch. Mick McGrath was class for the Wolfhounds as well.

Some people seem dubious, or even outright dismissive, about the idea that playing 7s can aid your development as a 15s player. From your experience, you think it could help make provincial players better running rugby players in 15s?

Squidgy Black

I think 7s would be a great thing to introduce to schools. With a lot less players needed than a full 15s squad, less technical when it comes to rucks and scrums in particular so it allows kids to get an idea of playing 15s without having to worry a lot about the rules as such. Obviously it still needs a good bit of training when it comes to tackling, but I think it's probably a better step forward than tag to introducing them to rugby.

As for the idea of it making players better running rugby players, it definitely encourages them to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand. I suppose one of the arguments would be that it's completely different in a 15s game as a lot of that space is gone.

The Lost Sheep

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think 7s would be a great thing to introduce to schools. With a lot less players needed than a full 15s squad, less technical when it comes to rucks and scrums in particular so it allows kids to get an idea of playing 15s without having to worry a lot about the rules as such. Obviously it still needs a good bit of training when it comes to tackling, but I think it's probably a better step forward than tag to introducing them to rugby.

As for the idea of it making players better running rugby players, it definitely encourages them to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand. I suppose one of the arguments would be that it's completely different in a 15s game as a lot of that space is gone.

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

.ak

RichieRich89 wrote: »

Some people seem dubious, or even outright dismissive, about the idea that playing 7s can aid your development as a 15s player. From your experience, you think it could help make provincial players better running rugby players in 15s?

Well, in my position I've only really got 3 years solid under my belt playing 15s, so I'm always still learning, and as a winger I don't get the opportunity to work on wide passes under pressure, it's generally popping up on an inside shoulder and feeding an offload, that's the extent of distribution and due to time constraints we don't get the opportunity to work on other bits.

I would say I learned loads on Saturday, especially passing, having to make a 20 meter pass under pressure whilst moving forward (or backwards!) otherwise it's essentially a turn over forces you to get the pass right. I had a few horror passes off my left but after a while I was putting in better passes than I have in yonks, because you force yourself to learn your own technique, and what works for you, rather than listening to someone telling you where your hand should be on the ball etc.

I also teaches you calmness under pressure, in 15s you are rarely under pressure with possession, because you have so much opportunities; kick, run, pass, crash etc. and almost all of them will result in a good percentage of your team retaining possession, whereas in 7s nearly everything you do will result in you losing position; if you carry you could get turned over easily if you're not strong in contact, if you kick you need to 100% gather it yourself, if you pass you have to make a 20m pass with pace on it or it'll be picked off, if you run you need to make sure you're running a line that gives your support the opportunity to get on your shoulder for an offload or switch or you'll die with the ball most likely.

So yeah, for me personally I learned a lot, and only felt I learned that from being put under pressure in a tournament situation rather than training or a training game.

Funny watching some of the AIL guys in our other team struggle, kept honey potting rucks, or looking for contact, or looking for short runners or cuts, whereas the J2 guys who play tag also were cleaning up. It's a very different game in practice, but there's definitely skills to be learned/gained from it.

On the other side however there's plenty of bad habbits you could pick up from it also. The best 7s players are often running lateral or backwards until space or opportunity opens up for them, if you do that in 15s you're essentially losing whatever territory and space your team fought for.

So I guess what you're asking is it beneficial for 15s at all level to play 7s, or could it further develop the game in Ireland as a whole? I'm not sure, the answer is probably no, when you look at other countries like USA who have serious talent at 7s but can't convert to 15s. Just because you're good at 7s doesn't mean you're good at 15s.

.ak

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

I think 7s would be a great thing to introduce to schools. With a lot less players needed than a full 15s squad, less technical when it comes to rucks and scrums in particular so it allows kids to get an idea of playing 15s without having to worry a lot about the rules as such. Obviously it still needs a good bit of training when it comes to tackling, but I think it's probably a better step forward than tag to introducing them to rugby.

As for the idea of it making players better running rugby players, it definitely encourages them to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand. I suppose one of the arguments would be that it's completely different in a 15s game as a lot of that space is gone.

Yeah, it's a great introduction to rugby. The tackling is also much, much harder in 7s. In 15s the forwards go through a lot of work, but so much tackling can be done by soaking up pressure or defending as a unit.

In 7s it's basically 1v1 every time, and if it's not you're doing something wrong in defence and there's a gap elsewhere. Tackling 1v1 is hard when players are running all sorts of lines and at pace. I've said it before but I'd much rather tackle a 19st prop peeling off a set piece than tackle a gnarly 13 or 15 running from 20m back with venom, because it's either gonna hurt like hell or you'll be made look a fool because they've gone around you.

So yeah, if you started off playing 7s, you'll probably be a pretty handy tackler if you move to 15s.

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

Not sure how much of this I agree with. I know safety is important, but a Kiwi friend of mine used to tell me that when they were kids they'd pick up a ball at lunch and run outside and play a game of full contact for their break in school, i.e; he doesn't remember the supervision and training required to learn how to tackle safely and all that. We're over protective at times and tbh tag for kids is probably just as dangerous as 7s for kids - I know half of our squad always pick up more injuries in the tag season than the 15s anyway!

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

Not sure how much of this I agree with. I know safety is important, but a Kiwi friend of mine used to tell me that when they were kids they'd pick up a ball at lunch and run outside and play a game of full contact for their break in school, i.e; he doesn't remember the supervision and training required to learn how to tackle safely and all that. We're over protective at times and tbh tag for kids is probably just as dangerous as 7s for kids - I know half of our squad always pick up more injuries in the tag season than the 15s anyway!

Then why do all the development officers across the country use tag not 7s to introduce rugby to kids whove not played before??
If 7s was so much better than why is that not used in each and every school that a development officer attends???
Tag is not at all just as dangerous. Tag is used to introduce the sport to new kids. They wont have any experience of the game by and large. Or only a small percentage will.
Tag helps teach many good habits for playing contact rugby. There is good reason at the lower age that rugby is tag/non contact.

Squidgy Black

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

It depends on the age group. From personal experience, when you get to the end of primary school/early secondary, kids aren't really interested in tag. They also don't really see it as rugby.

I think if they were to introduce 7s into schools with a development style league into non-rugby schools it'd take off.

We had a college team that was in the SSI development league, could barely string together 22 players every week because it was a small enough college and didn't have a strong group of rugby players. But we entered the DCU 7s a couple of years in a row and it worked out perfectly. The GAA heads loved it as well as they weren't comfortable playing 15s.

The Lost Sheep

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

It depends on the age group. From personal experience, when you get to the end of primary school/early secondary, kids aren't really interested in tag. They also don't really see it as rugby.

I think if they were to introduce 7s into schools with a development style league into non-rugby schools it'd take off.

We had a college team that was in the SSI development league, could barely string together 22 players every week because it was a small enough college and didn't have a strong group of rugby players. But we entered the DCU 7s a couple of years in a row and it worked out perfectly. The GAA heads loved it as well as they weren't comfortable playing 15s.

I dont think it will as you will just see the bigger/stronger kids take over and that doesnt help the rest.
Adult level is very different to youths and minis where tag is much much better. Tag also means you can play games mixed which helps with introducing girls to the sport. You cant do that with 7s.

7s needs such a level of fitness and high skill level that isnt required in tag as much

Squidgy Black

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Then why do all the development officers across the country use tag not 7s to introduce rugby to kids whove not played before??
If 7s was so much better than why is that not used in each and every school that a development officer attends???
Tag is not at all just as dangerous. Tag is used to introduce the sport to new kids. They wont have any experience of the game by and large. Or only a small percentage will.
Tag helps teach many good habits for playing contact rugby. There is good reason at the lower age that rugby is tag/non contact.

Tag is a lot easier for the schools in regards to liability, and also easier for the development officers as it involves very little training, other than how to pass the ball and run in a line.

kingofthekong

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing.
And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

Squidgy Black

kingofthekong wrote: »

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing.
And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

Couple of games were live streamed on the Dublin 7s Facebook page, you can watch them there.

It wasn't an IRFU tournament so they didn't really have anything to do with it.

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote:

You'd think Irish rugby would've got some bloody footage of the tournament, they are atrocious at this kind of thing. And if they do release some footage it'll be highly edited and artsy, is it too much to ask for just some simple game footage, same goes for the u20s vs munster development game...

it wasn't an irfu event so they won't necessarily have footage to release and of course any footage will be edited quite a bit.
As for 20s coaches may not want to put any coverage up anywhere

FellasFellas

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Tag can do it and is easier to introduce kids to game and thats why its used more. 7s needs quite a good skillset for it to be really useful and that will not be there with beginners.
There's very good reason why tag is used to introduce kids to the game so much by the development officers.
You need to work a lot with kids beginning to play the game on the tackle and if you get the aspects around tag going then introducing the tackle is easier.
Tag also very much encourages players to exploit open spaces and attack the line with ball in hand

To be honest, I think tag is the biggest waste of time in a rugby development sense, thats my opinion. I played mini rugby and there was not a hint of tag involved when I was 5/6; it was contact all the way up. I don't see how pushing tag is a good idea when it basically has been firmly established as a social thing for Big 4 to play after work on a Wednesday. People who play tag and take it as seriously as the RWC final are literally the dregs at the bottom of the rugby union teacup. Forcing kids to play tag will lead them to be warier of contact and will feel uncomfortable when being forced to play it. It's hard enough keeping kids interested when you're coaching them as a group and half of them have played before and half of them haven't and you have to go back to square one and teach them how to tackle, can you imagine how difficult it would be to coach every single child how to tackle because all they've done is swipe at tags in their formative years? What exactly are 'the aspects of tag'? I find it very hard to agree that the aspects of tag rugby will make the Wilson's Hospital U13C team a better defensive unit than NZ circa 05.