Why are we not taking to the streets to protest at this?

danman

I'm down working in Portlaoise at the moment. I've seen a sign in a pizza parlour looking for staff for the past month. It was still there last night. The only workers in there are Eastern Europeans at present.

Yet, there are still people drawing the dole in Portlaoise, as there are in many towns.

Is working in a pizza shop beneath those on social welfare?
Or is it a case that those on social are better off than working in a pizza shop?

If this is so, social welfare should've been cut more.

argosy2006

ste365 wrote: »

Are there people outside the Dail right now? We cannot accept this budget...the millionaires sit cozy in their homes having made their millions and now the lower classes are expected to pay back for something they never created or really benefitted from like the wealthy richer classes did during that celtic tiger. The cuts now will lead to even greater cuts in the future....this today is only the start!

coz were not french

shteve

It's a badly flawed system in place at the moment. You can't really blame the people in that situation.

It's a man with more pride than sense who slogs his guts out for less than he'd get for remaining idle.[/QUOTE]


My point was essentially these people can't criticise the bankers etc because they are just as culpable. I mean applying your logic one can say the CEO's in the various banks were acting in a similar manner.

If anyone is entitled to feel hard done by it is the semi-skilled workers who were the cogs in the boom period.

I just it is sad and just goes to show what a state this country has become if a person is happy to live off the slog of others! Hardly an example to set for the future generation

aurelius79

Ever considered that the owner of the pizza shop is paying well below the minimum wage or that the place has a bad rep for working conditions? When I lived in Dublin I worked in one of the many Londis shops. I was being paid 50 cents below the minimum wage. I made a complaint to the manager and he said there's nothing he could do. I went to the Dept. of Trade and Employment and I was given a stack of forms I had to fill out. In the end I just quit and signed on.

BrownianMotion

aurelius79 wrote: »

Ever considered that the owner of the pizza shop is paying well below the minimum wage or that the place has a bad rep for working conditions? When I lived in Dublin I worked in one of the many Londis shops. I was being paid 50 cents below the minimum wage. I made a complaint to the manager and he said there's nothing he could do. I went to the Dept. of Trade and Employment and I was given a stack of forms I had to fill out. In the end I just quit and signed on.

And are you proud of this?

Ever considered you were denying those really in need of the services they desperately require by becoming a burden on the State rather than continue in employment? Who cares if you were being paid 50cent below mininum wage, thousands of people are expected to work far more hours per week than is legal, all unpaid by employers.

The system is set up to assume everyone wants to work and contribute to society. This is clearly not the case and needs to change quickly.

samson09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ELleCQvew

RaoulDukeHST

From Fintan O'Toole's Irish Times article, Nov 14 2009:

1. LAST APRIL, in an unguarded moment, Brian Lenihan remarked that other European governments were “amazed” at his ability to impose harsh budgetary measures. The pension levy on public servants, he suggested, would have been greeted by “riots” in France.

Stupidity, to paraphrase Frank Zappa, is the most plentiful thing in the universe. Apathy has been the most plentiful thing in Ireland. Perhaps the sleeping giant is awakening, there are some indications of this although it seems the alarm is still set on snooze at the moment.

JasonBourne 2.0

You see, I agree with you in principle, but thats just not the way modern day capitalism works . . If we do that, wheres the incentive for risk taking companies/entrepeneurs to take risks in Ireland ? Where will we stop ? (that will be a question of potential investors in our country)

Yes i was implying more so that we should be chasing down the banking rich and also the fact that higher tax rates could be introduced for the extremely wealthy taking into account the need for incentive. I mean where else are they going to go if this were to happen, it's not like they would be any better off abroad.

I couldnt agree more that we need incentive for enterprise/investment. We have an attractive corporation tax of 12.5% which should help in maintaing FDI and possibly increaing it as things improve. What we don't need is the people that got us into this mess ( the bankers and our government, who are afraid of making tough decisions to keep their friends happy), we need new entrepreneurs and with no evidence of any increased government assistance towards job creation etc... this is unlikely. However I can tell you that not holding those reponsible accountable will definitely not lead to masses of investment.

Now please dont counter this argument with if we had of let the banks collapse we would have.......... this is not what i was implying and i know we depend on the financial system.

irish_bob

shteve wrote: »

Just to give my tuppence worth on the situation. I believe the budget should have been harsher and cut back more on social expenditure.


This notion that social welfare is an entitlement is ridiculous. It is a benefit that should have the sole function of allowing a person to survive. It should be a place so bleak that if any job offer should arise, there should be no hesitation in accepting it. This is clearly not the case in Ireland where we have certain people refusing jobs as their benefits would be cut. Here, people clearly have the chance to get back on their feet but feel they are superior to the job on offer. In my opinion these people are as guilty as the bankers and developers.


This attitude is the reason Ireland will take years to climb out of recession.

bill cullen was a revelaton on matt cooper this evening which was infront of a live audience in some hotel or other , when asked about the reduction in job seekers , he replied , when i was a kid , we got nothing from the goverment , you have to go out there and do something , sell apples if you have to , we have mollycoddled our children too much , when cooper suggested thier were no jobs , cullen replied , i refuse to believe that its impossible to find work


his comments were a breath of fresh air considering the hour and a half of whinging and sob storys that went before , mainly from teachers i might add , that teacher who talks like twink ( posh twink ) was on again , what is with teachers and thier capacity for righteous indignation , some beared teacher twat almost internally combusted on vincent brownes show last night

johnnyskeleton

ste365 wrote: »

Are there people outside the Dail right now? We cannot accept this budget...the millionaires sit cozy in their homes having made their millions and now the lower classes are expected to pay back for something they never created or really benefitted from like the wealthy richer classes did during that celtic tiger. The cuts now will lead to even greater cuts in the future....this today is only the start!

The lower classes? I take it you mean people on social welfare. SW recipients are not being asked to pay anything - they are being asked to RECEIVE less than they were before.

I've posted this before, it's from a chain email and shows that when we talk about cuts, fairness or tax breaks people tend to lose sight of who exactly is paying for the whole show:

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that"s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers, he said, "I"m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody"s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man"s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20", declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that"s right", exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It"s unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That"s true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn"t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn"t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn"t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

squidgey

Best budget ever. I lose €16 per month - that's it. Anyone who is moaning about medical card, or the 10% cut in child benefit just wants something for nothing.

I appreciate the bad news for those employed by the government taking a <10% pay cut, but bear in mind their jobs are secure, unlike many solicitors/architects/accountants who have already taken pay cuts of 10%.

onedoubleo

The public sector got hit in the supplementary budget 09 too, this is the second time they have been hit. And although the job security is something, the Private Sector really have to look at themselves and think, they cant exactly hit them again if this doesn't work out so where they gonna go next time.