Im off to do my shopping up North- P***ed off public servant

Qs

PeakOutput wrote: »

respond to the point that these people are the exact ones that pay more than 2/3rds of the countries tax already. please respond to it just once if your responce makes any logical sense i will never mention this statistic again

Who are paying more than 2/3s of the tax. When I looked at the figures it was mostly middle to a bit over middle income people that were paying them, not people on very high pay.

Its a great bit of spin how people on decent money have been tied in with the rich to create these stats.

PeakOutput

Ashanti wrote: »

Charisma I'm with you. I'll be heading up north too. losing several thousand on my middle income pay and having very little benefit from the tiger which benefitted the big business, bankers and construction people.

If my income has not been affected compared to last year, then neither has anyone else's. The bottom line is that those who earned the most have got away with barely a scratch. Kick the old PS again. sure we're a sitting target. We can't say we won't pay our taxes, unlike the business sector who threatened that last week. Well the business sector will feel the brunt of the PS cut when we spend less in the local economy.

lmfao your distinct lack of any economic understanding ASTOUNDS ME

first of all your 'middle income' would most likely be a 'working class' without the celtic tiger.

secondly, the business sector will certainly feel it if you spend all your money up the north as will the ENTIRE COUNTRY guess what happens then? thats right MORE CUTS TO THE GOVERMENTS EXPENDITURE

so lets push this to its logical conclusion YOU keep spending your money outside the duristiction, business's keep closing, the goverments coffers keep getting smaller and YOU keep losing out and eventually end up with no job and no social welfare because the country is bankrupt


the public sector should be routing for private industry to recover because then EVERYTHING RECOVERS including you wages recover

the sheer blind ignorant stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me

LookingFor

Ashanti wrote: »

If my income has not been affected compared to last year, then neither has anyone else's. The bottom line is that those who earned the most have got away with barely a scratch.

If anyone has gotten away without a scratch then their employer or company must be doing well. Which is no small feat currently.

Yours is not. Like many others around the country. And like many others, they've had to cut back the HR budget.

Stop thinking those few companies doing well should be punished and start thinking about how your employer should be more like them.

The sense of entitlement out of government workers can be nauseating. When a private company has to cut pay or let go of workers or whatever, you'd be lucky to see a brief mention on the news. When the government cuts pay we have to put up with moaning and bitching for weeks, strikes, the works. Cop yourselves on, PLEASE!

On a side note, it absolutely amazes me how little understanding a lot of PS workers seem to have with regard to the government's relationship with the economy. Very very frustrating, particularly when some of these people are supposed to be educating our kids.

PeakOutput

Qs wrote: »

Who are paying more than 2/3s of the tax. When I looked at the figures it was mostly middle to a bit over middle income people that were paying them, not people on very high pay.

Its a great bit of spin how people on decent money have been tied in with the rich to create these stats.

the top 4% of earners pay 50% of the tax the top 10% of earners pay 77% its that simple

Exclamation Marc

I'm sick of listening to public sector workers moan and b!tch about the pay cuts they've taken. They still have a job unlike the guarantee-free private sector.

You'd swear the private sector is in a boom the way they go on. Yes it sucks that you've taken a pay cut, but at least you can get up each morning and go to a job, unlike the thousands that join the dole queues who have lost their job and thus taken a 100% pay cut

Dr Kamikazi

Oh you poor b*stard!
I'll be sure to shed a tear for you when I collect my (soon to be slashed) job seekers allowance at the post office.
Here's a deal: If you're fed up of you're 10-4 job with a half an hours break in the morning and afternoon plus lunchbreak, 50k minimum, holidays, guaranteed job security, perks, overtime, pension and god knows what else, here's a thought:
GIVE IT TO ME!
I'll do it if you don't want to you big baby! I can sit motionless on a chair for hours, I can shuffle up to three pieces of paper at the same time, I can even carry up to 2 pieces WHILE WALKING and have been trained in answering phones within 24 rings. I can also type sometimes up to 2 characters a minute. In other words I'm about twice as efficient as any civil servant!
Yes, it is us against you and you guys have proved to be ignorant, greedy, out of touch and as a result have absolutely 0% public support outside of other civil servants.

Ashanti

nkay1985 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I just can't let comments like that go.

Read this thread and then try to say that sentence again.

For a start, average earnings mean nothing if you know anything about statistics. People at the top of the sector can earn hundreds of thousands. I was talking about the low and middle income earners in the PS. secondly, of course PS wages had to increase. We could never has survived the last years and the huge rise in costs if we'd stayed on the pitiful wages we used to earn.

Qs

At what salary level does that 4% start. Stats shredded down to sound bites mean nothing. Some context would be appreciated.

LookingFor

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Oh you poor b*stard!
I'll be sure to shed a tear for you when I collect my (soon to be slashed) job seekers allowance at the post office.
Here's a deal: If you're fed up of you're 10-4 job with a half an hours break in the morning and afternoon plus lunchbreak, 50k minimum, holidays, guaranteed job security, perks, overtime, pension and god knows what else, here's a thought:
GIVE IT TO ME!
I'll do it if you don't want to you big baby! I can sit motionless on a chair for hours, I can shuffle up to three pieces of paper at the same time, I can even carry up to 2 pieces WHILE WALKING and have been trained in answering phones within 24 rings. I can also type sometimes up to 2 characters a minute. In other words I'm about twice as efficient as any civil servant!
Yes, it is us against you and you guys have proved to be ignorant, greedy, out of touch and as a result have absolutely 0% public support outside of other civil servants.

This isn't fair either. There's no 50k minimum - far from it - and work demands are not evenly on the light 'paper shuffling' end of the scale.

I have a sister, she earns something like 23k and she works in social welfare, and they have to work their arse off. I've said to her over and over again though that she should be looking for her 'exit' - either to a higher grade, or out of the PS altogether to a more rewarding job.

Ashanti

LookingFor wrote: »

If anyone has gotten away without a scratch then their employer or company must be doing well. Which is no small feat currently.

Yours is not. Like many others around the country. And like many others, they've had to cut back the HR budget.

Stop thinking those few companies doing well should be punished and start thinking about how your employer should be more like them.

The sense of entitlement out of government workers can be nauseating. When a private company has to cut pay or let go of workers or whatever, you'd be lucky to see a brief mention on the news. When the government cuts pay we have to put up with moaning and bitching for weeks, strikes, the works. Cop yourselves on, PLEASE!

Why don't the private sector stop moaning about their loss of jobs then? When all was going well, the Private sector were quite happy with their ludicrous wages and big bonuses. Labourers on construction sites were raking in the money, tradespeople were making money hand over fist. I don't remember the private sector highlighting the differences between them and the public sector then. and i'm aware that many people worked in the private sector without getting big wages but you can be sure the owners of the businesses were doing very well thank you. You did well when the economy was thriving. I did't bemoan the amount of money friends of mine were making then despite my having much higher qualifications and earning less money. Some of their businesses are still doing very well, still having christmas parties and still getting bonuses.

PeakOutput

Ashanti wrote: »

For a start, average earnings mean nothing if you know anything about statistics. People at the top of the sector can earn hundreds of thousands. I was talking about the low and middle income earners in the PS. secondly, of course PS wages had to increase. We could never has survived the last years and the huge rise in costs if we'd stayed on the pitiful wages we used to earn.

lmfao your distinct lack of any economic understanding ASTOUNDS ME

first of all your 'middle income' would most likely be a 'working class' without the celtic tiger.

secondly, the business sector will certainly feel it if you spend all your money up the north as will the ENTIRE COUNTRY guess what happens then? thats right MORE CUTS TO THE GOVERMENTS EXPENDITURE

so lets push this to its logical conclusion YOU keep spending your money outside the duristiction, business's keep closing, the goverments coffers keep getting smaller and YOU keep losing out and eventually end up with no job and no social welfare because the country is bankrupt


the public sector should be routing for private industry to recover because then EVERYTHING RECOVERS including you wages recover

the sheer blind ignorant stupidity of people never ceases to amaze me

please respond

ulysses32

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Oh you poor b*stard!
I'll be sure to shed a tear for you when I collect my (soon to be slashed) job seekers allowance at the post office.
Here's a deal: If you're fed up of you're 10-4 job with a half an hours break in the morning and afternoon plus lunchbreak, 50k minimum, holidays, guaranteed job security, perks, overtime, pension and god knows what else, here's a thought:
GIVE IT TO ME!
I'll do it if you don't want to you big baby! I can sit motionless on a chair for hours, I can shuffle up to three pieces of paper at the same time, I can even carry up to 2 pieces WHILE WALKING and have been trained in answering phones within 24 rings. I can also type sometimes up to 2 characters a minute. In other words I'm about twice as efficient as any civil servant!
Yes, it is us against you and you guys have proved to be ignorant, greedy, out of touch and as a result have absolutely 0% public support outside of other civil servants.

You're not twice as efficient as me. None of these characteristics are part of my job, thankfully. It might be you against us but it is most certainly not us against you! If i gave you my job, whose side would you be on then?

nkay1985

Ashanti wrote: »

For a start, average earnings mean nothing if you know anything about statistics. People at the top of the sector can earn hundreds of thousands. I was talking about the low and middle income earners in the PS. secondly, of course PS wages had to increase. We could never has survived the last years and the huge rise in costs if we'd stayed on the pitiful wages we used to earn.

I said read the thread, not the first post.

Dr Kamikazi

Ashanti wrote: »

LookingFor wrote: »

Why don't the private sector stop moaning about their loss of jobs then? When all was going well, the Private sector were quite happy with their ludicrous wages and big bonuses. Labourers on construction sites were raking in the money, tradespeople were making money hand over fist. I don't remember the private sector highlighting the differences between them and the public sector then. and i'm aware that many people worked in the private sector without getting big wages but you can be sure the owners of the businesses were doing very well thank you. You did well when the economy was thriving. I did't bemoan the amount of money friends of mine were making then despite my having much higher qualifications and earning less money. Some of their businesses are still doing very well, still having christmas parties and still getting bonuses.

Maybe in LaLa Land...

PeakOutput

Ashanti wrote: »

Why don't the private sector stop moaning about their loss of jobs then? When all was going well, the Private sector were quite happy with their ludicrous wages and big bonuses. Labourers on construction sites were raking in the money, tradespeople were making money hand over fist.

and they have lost their jobs how else would you like us to penalise them? they dont have any jobs ffs

I don't remember the private sector highlighting the differences between them and the public sector then.

i do remember the public service highlighting the differences and wanting equality though.well guess what this is what equality means

I did't bemoan the amount of money friends of mine were making then despite my having much higher qualifications and earning less money.

why would you complain? it was your choice

Some of their businesses are still doing very well, still having christmas parties and still getting bonuses.

and its those business's and those workers being employed by them paying their taxes that are the only reason you still have any job at all. would you like us to tax them them into non existence as well? then were will your pay cheque come from?

stooge

ulysses32 wrote: »

Not convinced of the private sector pay cut banter at all. of my wide circle of friends acquaintances and family( a relatively small survey base i agree) none have taken a paycut or heard of one in their respective companies! They are in all forms of industry including services sector, pharmaceuticals, food production, retail, etc. One has lost his job ( construction) but luckily he had saved enough from his exorbitant salary to set himself up in the UK.

I honestly cannot believe this. Either you have an extremely lucky circle of friends or many of them are lying.

I have friends/acq/family in Financial, Accounting, Construction, Engineering, Services, Telecoms and Retail and almost every one I can think of at the moment has taken either a 10%min pay cut or lost their job. I can think of about 2 people I know who have remained relatively unaffected.

It actually begs me to ask the question... Do you live in Ireland?

efb

Again I say we should outsourse all the PS Clerical duties to Norn Iron, we'd save a fortune! And the lads in our PS could reapply for their job! At least they'd know the way!

ulysses32

Ashanti wrote: »

LookingFor wrote: »

If anyone has gotten away without a scratch then their employer or company must be doing well. Which is no small feat currently.

Yours is not. Like many others around the country. And like many others, they've had to cut back the HR budget.

Stop thinking those few companies doing well should be punished and start thinking about how your employer should be more like them.

The sense of entitlement out of government workers can be nauseating. When a private company has to cut pay or let go of workers or whatever, you'd be lucky to see a brief mention on the news. When the government cuts pay we have to put up with moaning and bitching for weeks, strikes, the works. Cop yourselves on, PLEASE!

Why don't the private sector stop moaning about their loss of jobs then? When all was going well, the Private sector were quite happy with their ludicrous wages and big bonuses. Labourers on construction sites were raking in the money, tradespeople were making money hand over fist. I don't remember the private sector highlighting the differences between them and the public sector then. and i'm aware that many people worked in the private sector without getting big wages but you can be sure the owners of the businesses were doing very well thank you. You did well when the economy was thriving. I did't bemoan the amount of money friends of mine were making then despite my having much higher qualifications and earning less money. Some of their businesses are still doing very well, still having christmas parties and still getting bonuses.

There are thousands of PS workers let go every year as their contract runs out. i work in education and there would be at least 2000 teachers out of contract at the end of each year. this is the same across the public service. it has never made the news over the past thirteen years( my time working). They do not have guaranteed jobs yet they still pay pension levies etc when they are working. This situation is more extreme than even the most exploitative of private sector contracting.

Ashanti

PeakOutput wrote: »

please respond

Delighted to respond. The sheer stupidity of many of the posts here astounds me. Cuts in pay means people have less to spend. And what does that mean? yes it means they will look for the best value and where is that? Why yes again, it's over the border. So while the private sector has been baying for the blood of the public sectory, it is failing miserably to realise that it will adversely affect the private sector etc. Catch 22 it's called. And btw, this whole private/public divide is a great rue of the government to detract anger from where it should be directed, at the government for the absolute mess they have made of the economy with help from the banking and construction sector. why not have a go at them and the 54 billion bailout to dig out a totally corrupt sector? No, it's easier to have a go at the ordinary workers in the PS. and even though reforms are required inthe PS and no-one denies that, blanket cuts in pay is not a reform. And I know that I and my colleagues are all highly qualified and work very hard as do the majority of the public sector. Of course there's always room to improve, but i've worked the majority of my working career in the private sector and I've seen a lot of waste and room for improvement there as well.

efb

Permanent Private Sector employees can lose their job easily, Public Sector Worker that are perm are very difficult to shift.

Ashanti

stooge wrote: »

I honestly cannot believe this. Either you have an extremely lucky circle of friends or many of them are lying.

I have friends/acq/family in Financial, Accounting, Construction, Engineering, Services, Telecoms and Retail and almost every one I can think of at the moment has taken either a 10%min pay cut or lost their job. I can think of about 2 people I know who have remained relatively unaffected.

It actually begs me to ask the question... Do you live in Ireland?

I also know people in the private sector doing very well and still getting bonuses etc. many businesses will make money from this recession. And it won't be the public sector.

ulysses32

stooge wrote: »

I honestly cannot believe this. Either you have an extremely lucky circle of friends or many of them are lying.

I have friends/acq/family in Financial, Accounting, Construction, Engineering, Services, Telecoms and Retail and almost every one I can think of at the moment has taken either a 10%min pay cut or lost their job. I can think of about 2 people I know who have remained relatively unaffected.

It actually begs me to ask the question... Do you live in Ireland?

Yes I do live in Ireland and what I have said is absolutely true. They may well be lucky; I am just recounting my experience of the situation.

must edit here because there is one ather person who has suffered a severe downturn in his business but he came from a very high point to a relatively good position now. He was clearing multiples of six figures "now I'm down below 200k", his words not mine.

Ashanti

i do remember the public service highlighting the differences and wanting equality though.well guess what this is what equality means



why would you complain? it was your choice

As was your choice to be in the private sector.

An CROI

Public Sector fighting with Private Sector.........fighting with the Unemployed..........fighting with............

Maybe if you take your blinkers off you will realise that while we (the citizens of Ireland) fight with each other - the ones who caused the mess are still in charge of the country.

This mess is not the public sectors fault, its not the private sectors fault.

Its the governments fault!

Think of this when you next cast your vote.

Oh, and maybe if the government looked at the wastage in all the quangos (FAS getting another 50+ million to spend on useless courses - :mad::mad::mad:) they could save the billions they need to save without taking it from the people.

Not to mention the overspending (rip-offs) on the capital projects.

When we will learn?

Namlub

Ashanti wrote: »

Delighted to respond. The sheer stupidity of many of the posts here astounds me. Cuts in pay means people have less to spend. And what does that mean? yes it means they will look for the best value and where is that? Why yes again, it's over the border.

Resulting in a continued decline in the economy, which the government will have to address by making even more cuts, which is precisely what you are complaining about in the first place.Good policy.

Dr Kamikazi

Ashanti wrote: »

I also know people in the private sector doing very well and still getting bonuses etc. many businesses will make money from this recession. And it won't be the public sector.

2 people in my company in Munster got laid off. A further 4 where laid off in Dublin.
A friend of mine works for Aer Lingus in Shannon, it's not looking good.
My girlfriend got let go last year and her sister as well.
Don't tell me we're not affected, I'd love a guaranteed job.
You just don't like having your soup p*ssed in. You have gotten used to certain "standards" and wasn't it P. Flynn who said "you try holding all that together on a 100k"
Ferrero Rocher anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8T0Q03oJSc

Ronan|Raven

Ashanti wrote: »

I also know people in the private sector doing very well and still getting bonuses etc. many businesses will make money from this recession. And it won't be the public sector.

Fair play to them getting bonuses why shouldn't they? They are obviously in businesses that are doing well. Sadly your employer is in the ****. So like a lot of other employees whose companies are in the **** you are now facing pay cuts.

PeakOutput

Ashanti wrote: »

Cuts in pay means people have less to spend. And what does that mean? yes it means they will look for the best value and where is that? Why yes again, it's over the border.

that is a choice you make yourself. that choice will result in you earning even less money in the long term

So while the private sector has been baying for the blood of the public sectory, it is failing miserably to realise that it will adversely affect the private sector etc. Catch 22 it's called.

yep it is a catch 22 which is why the balance is very important. the private sector knows that the ps will now have less money to spend and are willing to accept that fact so the country dosnt go bankrupt. the ps are apparently not willing to accept the fact that the country will go bankrupt without these cuts and are willing to further compund the problem by sending the money out of the exchequer. the very same exchquer that pays them, THE SAME ONE THAT PAYS THEM

And btw, this whole private/public divide is a great rue of the government to detract anger from where it should be directed, at the government for the absolute mess they have made of the economy with help from the banking and construction sector.

yep it sure is and its a rue made even easier by the ps's response to taking logical steps to improve everyones well being in the long run. as far as im concerned i couldnt care less abou t the goverment unless the entire country is retarded(which is a strong possibility) they wont be the goverment after the next election whats the point in talking about it until that time comes? the time for ps cuts has come so thats what we are talking about

why not have a go at them and the 54 billion bailout to dig out a totally corrupt sector?

agreeing or disagreeing with nama is a completely different argument it has nothing to do with ps pay

but i've worked the majority of my working career in the private sector and I've seen a lot of waste and room for improvement there as well.

and what happens in the private sector when things dont improve? either business's go to the wall or people lose their jobs. this dosnt happen in the ps sector when things dont improve

who what when

Very well thought out strategy OP. Now i presume in the previous few years you were simply not surviving considering the cost of living has reduced by more than 5%?

For my part im a low paid private sector worker who took a pay hit of more than 25% this year and under no circumstances will i be going up north to give the bastard my hard earned money.

Ashanti

Namlub wrote: »

Resulting in a continued decline in the economy, which the government will have to address by making even more cuts, which is precisely what you are complaining about in the first place.Good policy.

As you see, it's a fool's policy. it doesn't improve the situation, in fact it makes it worse. The government is targeting the wrong people.