Water Charges

Mad_Max

No problem with it so long as EVERYONE pays once they pass the threshold and I include welfare families!

Ronan|Raven

I know around here in the wilds of County Roscommon they have meters installed in a lot of the towns and surrounding rural areas. We have had one installed near our mains pipe for nearly two years now . I would imagine a lot of other towns have them installed by now as well.

Thoie

I wonder will the allowance be per household or per person? Will single people start inviting their married friends around for showers at Christmas if they haven't used up their allowance?

Dyr

holdfast wrote: »

Its a good idea, will bring an awareness of what people are using. It is in line with most EU countries. Everyone pays for water in a round about way through taxes but I would hope that this would allow for people to determine how much they pay.

everyone pays for education but i don't have any kid's so why is'nt there a sprogg meter in place? Bringing charges in under the pretense that it's somehow fairer is bull, we'll be paying the same tax plus water charges.

Mad_Max

Bambi wrote: »

everyone pays for education but i don't have any kid's so why is'nt there a sprogg meter in place? Bringing charges in under the pretense that it's somehow fairer is bull, we'll be paying the same tax plus water charges.

Well if you stay under the allowance it won't cost anything. Provided of course they provide a sensible allowance. Not really holding my breath on it though.

Padraig Mor

mmalaka wrote: »

How they will know how much water I used? are they going to provide some kind of meters like the ESB meter? who will pay for those meters?

AFAIK most/all houses built in the last few years are required by planning permission to have a water meter. Mine has - and planning was granted in 1999 IIRC.

Padraig Mor

westtip wrote: »

Its called rates - do you think those pipes that supply your water miracously appear without someone paying for them.

Clean water costs money to be delivered. Start waking up to what the rest of the world do --- pay for services.

We already pay for the water supply through income tax. Water charges are not being introduced so that we pay for water - we are being asked to pay more than we already do.

lion_bar

We need to pay for our water to get our supplies up to a proper standard. The poor supply of water in Ireland (pressure & quality especially) has hindered investment.

lucernarian

It shows the amount of rural users on boards when only one poster has asked the question:

What about people with their own water supply?

These proposals by the Dublinite media talk about every household in the State as if we all live in a semi-d in Dundrum. Have there been *any* specifics mentioned about this proposal apart from some quoted statements by John Gormley? It truly crosses a line when the Govt would feel that a service which is 100% funded and serviced by the end user should be taxed. Why, because it is a natural resource and it's protected?? I thought that's what the septic tank "license" was supposed to do...


I also can't see the gain of having €1 billion taken out of the economy to bring about a mediocre amount of tax revenue along with just a couple of thousand jobs?

Thoie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

It shows the amount of rural users on boards when only one poster has asked the question:

What about people with their own water supply?

To be fair, a lot of rural dwellers are also on mains water. Of a handful of truly rural dwellers that I'm thinking of, 1 is on their own water supply, 1 has mains to the house, and their own water for elsewhere and the rest (about another 8) are on mains water - though some of those aren't on mains sewerage.

lucernarian

Statistics for this are hard, but where I live there are only a scattering of houses that have mains water but not sewerage treatment. More houses have both sewerage and mains, but the large majority of houses are on private schemes or a well between two neighbours etc.

In other rural places that I'm quite familiar with, it's a mixture of Group Water Schemes and well water.

I do feel the fact that some rural residents do get tax-funded water supplies doesn't justify that those who have fully funded it themselves have to be overlooked. I'm really just annoyed with RTÉ et al., not the good folks of boards;)

eigrod

What part of the property/house are these meters installed ?

Reason I ask is that we had serious subsidence problem under our 3 bed semi. Tests proved that there was "substantial leakage" from the drains that caused this problem.

Now I'm just curiuos to know would our problems have even been worse if we were metered in that would we have been paying for the vast amounts of water that was leaking (I'm sure thousands of houses must have leaking pipes beneath)

johnnyrotten

kadafi006 wrote: »

paying for water is ridiculous. I would never do it.

Oh yes you will

Thoie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm really just annoyed with RTÉ et al., not the good folks of boards;)

Well RTE has always been Dublin-centric

Water metering will be difficult to bring in "fairly". As an apartment dweller I don't particularly want to pay for other people's children to have baths, or to subsidise 6 people in a 3-bed apartment when I'm already careful with my water usage. I completely understand the perspective of someone who already has to pay for regular well inspections not wanting to metered.

There was a suggestion recently that people would have to pay an annual fee for septic tanks as well. If the county council are going to come out, inspect the tank and then certify it, all well and good. If you just have to randomly give them money for the septic tank you already pay to service - not so good.

lucernarian

Yes, I've shared my opinions on the septic tank licensing system before on boards. I feel very averse to it on the basis that the science of this being cited as a major source of pollution is a little dubious. Consideration has to be given that e.g. brick ****houses at the bottom of a field have served as toilets for rural people from the 1870s land acts until the 60s in a lot of cases. Obviously there's a lack of data from that time but my point is that people have always simply used the surrounding lands to dispose of waste destined for the sewerage plant. Septic tanks do nothing except remove the solids from the sludge and leave the nutrient and bacteria rich water to stay in the ground. The net amount of waste entering the environment hasn't increased due to septic tanks.

Now if I set that aside and say that septic tank licensing is necessary, then there's even less of a reason to charge for water use. The cleanliness of water is already supposed to be improved to proper standards with the septic tank licensing, so why does the govt need another charge to "improve water quality"???

I can see how it would make life complicated for people sharing rented accommodation.

heyjude

The plan apparently is to install water meters and introduce water charges to all households with a public water supply, whose usage exceeds a set 'free' allowance.

History tells me that the reality will turn out otherwise. If a household doesn't pay its ESB bills, the electricity is switched off, but a few years ago, when the council introduced an annual flat rate water charge, we along with many thousands of other households paid the compulsory charge, but it soon became apparent that many other households chose to pay nothing and in most cases, they were not disconnected. The councils around the country said they would continue to pursue the outstanding fees, but quietly the issue disappeared and it seems that many people got away with paying nothing for years. What is to stop the same thing happening again ? These people know how controversial disconnection was last time and they also know from experience that the council will eventually give up. Will we only see enforcement of water charges in certain areas, and not in others(due to political considerations or the threat of civil unrest) ?

I think you can already guess which areas will have the water meters installed first and which areas won't have meters installed ten years from now. If the councils/state has to pay for the meters, then you know they'll be tempted to install them initially in areas where they anticipate the greatest payment compliance.

murphaph

My water is metered here and so I watch it carefully. It's a precious and expensive resource. However, the priority should be to upgrade the various networks and reduce leaks to a tolerable level. Until that's done there's not much point in metering if the intention is to reduce waste, as a good quarter already just leaks out of the system.

Dannyboy83

I am pleased with this measure.
Should have been done years ago when people were buying 2 and 3 properties and the younger generation couldn't find a pot to piss in.

It will contribute to making houses cheaper for people like myself who are waiting to buy.

tudlytops

Water is free but it doesn't come out of the tap by miracle, someone as to bring it there and that costs money.

Also people waste far to much water, it's about time we put a price on precious resource.

i welcome the water charges.

as for the septic, I don't get it, you pay to put it in, you pay to maintain it and then you pay because you have it.

Shouldn't everyone pay septic charges, after all private septic or public sewage every one uses something

lucernarian

Yes, that was also a substantial reason for my outrage in the earlier thread. Why should I pay a license for a septic tank that I built, while other people can enjoy state-funded or -built sewerage free of charge? I think the concept is inequitable as a result and is another half-assed measure to make up for the loss of rates income since the 70s.

PatHawkins

absolutely disgusting.

They even want to charge people for water, now that everything is getting charged for, what exactly do I get in return for having 40% of my wages stolen every month??????

PatHawkins

tudlytops wrote: »

Water is free but it doesn't come out of the tap by miracle, someone as to bring it there and that costs money.

Oh does it not, and 40% of my wages don't hit my bank account every month either.

tudlytops wrote: »

Also people waste far to much water, it's about time we put a price on precious resource.

I have been living in this country for 28 years, I have yet to see one person waste water because it was "free". In fact a well known economic principle states that something offered in a unlimited matter will rarely be wasted, what would be the point.

Lord Trollington

I think its an excelletn idea, as if we are paying for the supply of water then we can question the quality and if supply is ever down.

We dont have to pay for water, its everywhere in our rivers,lakes and oceans.
But we should have to pay for water that is treated for our consumption.

Also we waste far too much water as it is. I imagine they will give us an allocation and after that we over step the allocation we have to pay for it.

It will also supply much needed jobs to people in terms of fiiting and maintaining the Meters in the houses.

tudlytops

PatHawkins wrote: »

Oh does it not, and 40% of my wages don't hit my bank account every month either.



I have been living in this country for 28 years, I have yet to see one person waste water because it was "free". In fact a well known economic principle states that something offered in a unlimited matter will rarely be wasted, what would be the point.

40% of the wages goes towards many, many things, and i feel for you as it is a huge amount to be paying, i been there i know how frustrating it is.

People waste water in so many ways, Dishwashers in small families or families with more then enough time to do the dishes by hand, Washing their car, some on a weekly basis, power washing drives, when they could use broom and a bucket of water, water left running while brushing their teeth, small swiming pools fill for the kids and empty every day, etc, this are just some of the things i see it being wasted in the country and in towns.

nietzy

for apartment dwellers - this means that basically, if like me, you live in a 2 bedroom apartment with your bird, while below you, theres 5 or 6 foreigners in the same apartment (and we all know how dirty them foreigners are), this means you will be on average paying charges for 3 or 4 people?

CamperMan

Thoie wrote: »

To be fair, a lot of rural dwellers are also on mains water. Of a handful of truly rural dwellers that I'm thinking of, 1 is on their own water supply, 1 has mains to the house, and their own water for elsewhere and the rest (about another 8) are on mains water - though some of those aren't on mains sewerage.

so does this mean that because a small amount of people in Ireland have their own water supply it's tough luck... and that they should also pay water rates??

tudlytops

nietzy wrote: »

for apartment dwellers - this means that basically, if like me, you live in a 2 bedroom apartment with your bird, while below you, theres 5 or 6 foreigners in the same apartment (and we all know how dirty them foreigners are), this means you will be on average paying charges for 3 or 4 people?

First that was a very racist comment and I won't reply the way I would like to, because I won't go that low.

But if you have a meter you will pay for what you use only and if it is just you and a bird (lol) you be just fine..

amacachi

Hopefully we'll get something similar to the UK system where it's illegal for them to turn off the supply for non-payment. AFAIK they're not even allowed use trickle-meters over there unless it's changed recently.

tudlytops

CamperMan wrote: »

so does this mean that because a small amount of people in Ireland have their own water supply it's tough luck... and that they should also pay water rates??

If you have your own water supply ( I have both) you already paying, because you are responsible for all the piping, maintenance, pump, etc.

tudlytops

amacachi wrote: »

Hopefully we'll get something similar to the UK system where it's illegal for them to turn off the supply for non-payment. AFAIK they're not even allowed use trickle-meters over there unless it's changed recently.

Hopefully not, like any other service you don't pay you get cut off, otherwise what is the point.