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Will the Govt return to the Public Sector?

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  • 10-12-2009 10:31am
    #1
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭


    Or is that it, is the PS well run dry now?
    Surely they cant come back? And to be fair all the perceived anti public service economists/commentators have accepted now that the PS has taken more than its fair share of pain.

    Private sector workers are next ....wait and see....

    IBEC and ISME will now see this as an excuse to attack their lower paid private sector workers....their own "benchmarking" so to speak.


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    #2
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    Liam79 wrote: »
    Or is that it, is the PS well run dry now?
    Surely they cant come back? And to be fair all the perceived anti public service economists/commentators have accepted now that the PS has taken more than its fair share of pain.

    Private sector workers are next ....wait and see....

    IBEC and ISME will now see this as an excuse to attack their lower paid private sector workers....their own "benchmarking" so to speak.



    Of course they will come back Liam. They have to make similar saving for the next few years.
    Public Sector pay is the only pay structures that they control.

    Seriously, don't let this be a big shock to you this time next year.


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    #3
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    frman wrote: »
    Of course they will come back Liam. They have to make similar saving for the next few years.
    Public Sector pay is the only pay structures that they control.

    Seriously, don't let this be a big shock to you this time next year.


    Both Lenihan and Hanafin have both said explicity this morning they will NOT be touching public service pay anymore. Read my lips kinda stuff. :rolleyes:


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    #4
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Liam79 wrote: »
    Or is that it, is the PS well run dry now?
    Surely they cant come back? And to be fair all the perceived anti public service economists/commentators have accepted now that the PS has taken more than its fair share of pain.

    Private sector workers are next ....wait and see....

    IBEC and ISME will now see this as an excuse to attack their lower paid private sector workers....their own "benchmarking" so to speak.

    Dude - head into a library and get a book on economics.

    How has it run dry? The PS are still overpaid in relation to irish private sector and international public sectors.

    There are another 4 harsh budgets to come. The public and private sectors are going to be hit hard again and again and again.


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    #5
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    Liam79 wrote: »
    Both Lenihan and Hanafin have both said explicity this morning they will NOT be touching public service pay anymore. Read my lips kinda stuff. :rolleyes:


    The only way that they won't touch public pay again is if they are not in Government. Maybe they expect that to be the case.

    There has to be more reductions as we have more savings to find.


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    #6
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Liam79 wrote: »
    Both Lenihan and Hanafin have both said explicity this morning they will NOT be touching public service pay anymore. Read my lips kinda stuff. :rolleyes:

    Ah yes cause you can trust what a politican says.........


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    #7
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    tunney wrote: »
    Dude - head into a library and get a book on economics.

    How has it run dry? The PS are still overpaid in relation to irish private sector and international public sectors.

    There are another 4 harsh budgets to come. The public and private sectors are going to be hit hard again and again and again.

    OK, so Eddie Hobbs, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hanafin, Jim Power, Noel Dempsey, David McWilliams and Ingrid Miley are all wrong....but your right....??
    Cos all the above are on the record as saying the PS will not be hit again.....


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    #8
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    Liam79 wrote: »
    OK, so Eddie Hobbs, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hanafin, Jim Power, Noel Dempsey, David McWilliams and Ingrid Miley are all wrong....but your right....??
    Cos all the above are on the record as saying the PS will not be hit again.....


    Did they happen to mention where the savings would come from ?


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    #9
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    frman wrote: »
    Did they happen to mention where the savings would come from ?

    No they didnt and thats a very valid point Frman.
    But Lenihan is on record as saying the 2011 Budget will be HALF of this budget, and the likes of Hobbs/McWillaims/Power are hardly champions of the PS Cause, but they have also said the Govt can not return to the PS well any longer.


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    #10
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    Liam79 wrote: »
    No they didnt and thats a very valid point Frman.
    But Lenihan is on record as saying the 2011 Budget will be HALF of this budget, and the likes of Hobbs/McWillaims/Power are hardly champions of the PS Cause, but they have also said the Govt can not return to the PS well any longer.

    I hope you are right Liam, I just don't see it tbh.

    I know if I was reliant on a public sector wage, I would be preparing for another slice to be taken from me next year. And if by some chance it doesn't, then I would be quids in.


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    #11
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    Liam79 wrote: »
    OK, so Eddie Hobbs, Brian Lenihan, Mary Hanafin, Jim Power, Noel Dempsey, David McWilliams and Ingrid Miley are all wrong....but your right....??
    Cos all the above are on the record as saying the PS will not be hit again.....

    Given you seem to be firmly living in lala land - you believe what you want.

    There will be significant cuts in the size of the PS.
    There will be reductions in pensions.
    There will be reductions in pay.

    We cannot afford the PS.

    But in LaLa land I'm sure its its different


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    #12
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    They've also stated they can't tax their way out of this problem.
    If the money is not coming in (via the private sector), the cost of running the public sector will have to be reduced somehow which means...


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    #13
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    tunney wrote: »
    Given you seem to be firmly living in lala land - you believe what you want.

    There will be significant cuts in the size of the PS.
    There will be reductions in pensions.
    There will be reductions in pay.

    We cannot afford the PS.

    But in LaLa land I'm sure its its different


    I don't think you need to be that aggressive Tunney.

    Liam is asking a valid question as it affects him and thousands more around the country.

    I know there will be a property tax introduced next year together with water rates. Maybe they are expecting to receive a lot of revenue from these areas. Of course it is just another way to take money out of workers pockets !


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    #14
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    tunney wrote: »
    We cannot afford the PS.

    You do realise a public sector is required to run a country? do you think we should embrace anarchy in this state or something?


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    #15
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    tunney wrote: »
    Given you seem to be firmly living in lala land - you believe what you want.

    There will be significant cuts in the size of the PS.
    There will be reductions in pensions.
    There will be reductions in pay.

    We cannot afford the PS.

    But in LaLa land I'm sure its its different


    Ok, so basically....they are either lying or wrong, and your right??
    Correct?


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    #16
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Of course they'll be back, they need another €4bn next year.
    Also, they didn't implement any structural reforms in the PS, apart from proposed pension changes which will only affect new applicants.


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    #17
    dearg lady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭dearg lady


    Well given that the paycuts put in place in this budget for 2010 will still be in place in 2011, a similiar amount of money will be saved in 2011 as in 2010. I'd be surprised if they went for public sector wages again. They migth make further pension adjustments as time goes on though.


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    #18
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    imme wrote: »
    Of course they'll be back, they need another €4bn next year.
    Also, they didn't implement any structural reforms in the PS, apart from proposed pension changes which will only affect new applicants.

    Wrong, they need 2bn next year...Lenihan revised the figures last night


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    #19
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Maybe they're hoping that the savings can be made from a combination of:

    Natural attrition from a 'no new hires' policy for the next 4 years
    Not giving increments for length of service i.e. a pay freeze
    An introduction of a voluntary unpaid leave scheme for those who can be done without for a few days each year
    Slashing budgets for staff training (much of which is junket-ry anyway - I should know, I gave some of the courses!)
    Reduction of expense rates / allowances (I remember seeing the figure of 1.27 per mile for a given grade of civil servant on one Department's expense syste!)

    and other reforms of a similar nature.

    I can't see how they can expect not to have to cut pay again otherwise.


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    #20
    frman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 138 ✭✭frman


    imme wrote: »
    Of course they'll be back, they need another €4bn next year.
    Also, they didn't implement any structural reforms in the PS, apart from proposed pension changes which will only affect new applicants.


    A very good point there imme. Perhaps the bulk of the savings will come from Public Sector reform rather than straight paycuts next time out.

    I don't think any hard working ps person would argue with reform if it meant having the same money in every paypacket. (please tell me that this assumption is correct or I will lose all faith!)


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    #21
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    tunney wrote: »

    We cannot afford the PS.

    So who do you reckon should go? The Gardai? Fire Fighters? Nursing staff? The Clerical staff who serve at the Welfare office?

    You need the Public Service.


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    #22
    MaceFace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭MaceFace


    Liam79 wrote: »
    Ok, so basically....they are either lying or wrong, and your right??
    Correct?

    I think there is a lot of lying going on, but not just with the politicians.


    Hanifin was asked on Morning Ireland this morning if they would come back for more cuts.
    She basically said they would be coming back to engage the unions on a reform and if that failed, she would not rule out more cuts.

    I don't remember Lenny saying anything about next years budget being half of this years. Please elaborate.......


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    #23
    BraziliaNZ
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    So who do you reckon should go? The Gardai? Fire Fighters? Nursing staff? The Clerical staff who serve at the Welfare office?

    You need the Public Service.

    We need to sack everyone, we just can't afford a public service now, maybe keep 5% skeleton crew to keep country running


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    #24
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #25
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    frman wrote: »
    I don't think you need to be that aggressive Tunney.

    Liam is asking a valid question as it affects him and thousands more around the country.

    With Liam79 - I think you do need to be, he doesn't seem to grasp the bigger picture.
    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    You do realise a public sector is required to run a country? do you think we should embrace anarchy in this state or something?

    Of course I do but it need not be as costly to the public.


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    #26
    tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    nipplenuts wrote: »
    So who do you reckon should go? The Gardai? Fire Fighters? Nursing staff? The Clerical staff who serve at the Welfare office?

    You need the Public Service.

    Then they need to be paid less, substantionally.
    If there cannot be a reduction in numbers then there has to be significant (read another 15%) cut in PS wages. Across the board.


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    #27
    stevoman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭stevoman


    ah yes, the mob have their scalp yet they still cry for blood.

    now can people please chage the bloody record!!!!!!!!!!!!


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    #28
    Liam79
    Closed Accounts Posts: 463 ✭✭Liam79


    tunney wrote: »
    Then they need to be paid less, substantionally.
    If there cannot be a reduction in numbers then there has to be significant (read another 15%) cut in PS wages. Across the board.

    And do you include people earning between 20 and 35k who have just been hit extremely hard in that Tunney??


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    #29
    dearg lady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭dearg lady


    stevoman wrote: »
    ah yes, the mob have their scalp yet they still cry for blood.

    now can people please chage the bloody record!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I have to agree, I had pretty much stopped reading the politics forum the last few weeks, as it was gettin horribly repetitive and going around in circles. In a lot of ways I supported the cuts even though it's money out of my pocket as I fully realise cuts had to be made, and I felt incredible sympathy for those in the private sector who had lost jobs or had their pay cut.

    Post budget, all I have seen so far from private sector is cries for more(though I don't doubt there are reasonable people out there, they're probably just not so loud) I know feel very strongly that I will fight any further proposed cuts, and my sympathy, I must admit, is waning.


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    #30
    Cypresstree
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭Cypresstree


    dearg lady wrote: »
    I have to agree, I had pretty much stopped reading the politics forum the last few weeks, as it was gettin horribly repetitive and going around in circles. In a lot of ways I supported the cuts even though it's money out of my pocket as I fully realise cuts had to be made, and I felt incredible sympathy for those in the private sector who had lost jobs or had their pay cut.

    Post budget, all I have seen so far from private sector is cries for more(though I don't doubt there are reasonable people out there, they're probably just not so loud) I know feel very strongly that I will fight any further proposed cuts, and my sympathy, I must admit, is waning.

    Completely Agree!!


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    #31
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    frman wrote: »
    A very good point there imme. Perhaps the bulk of the savings will come from Public Sector reform rather than straight paycuts next time out.

    As far as I know, that's the plan. Because savings are needed immediately, the immediate Government action has been to cut PS pay, but in the slightly longer term it's preferred that savings come through structural reform.

    However, haven't the unions said that because of the pay cuts, they'll block structural reform? In that case, presumably, the next round of savings would also have to come from pay cuts...

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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