Time for a general election

aurelius79

I think it's time for Mr. Cowen and his cabinet to resign their positions and call a general election. They are incapable of restoring this country to normality. Fianna Fail had an opportunity to turn Ireland into a shining example of progress and prosperity, but instead the drove the country into the worst recession in the history of the State.

Billions of euros have been pumped into this country by the ECB and private investors. What do we have to show for it besides a massive national debt? Thousands of empty houses across the country, a large percentage not even finished. Hundreds of thousands out of work with no sign of change. Banks that suffered no consequence to their predatory lending. Families in massive debt with no way out. People losing their homes.

This is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. The most vulnerable in society have suffered enough. It's time to put an end to this charade. Demand a general election in 2010 and get these people out of government.

We need leaders, not just more politicians and businessmen.

peasant

aurelius79 wrote: »

We need leaders, not just more politicians and businessmen.

If we had any leaders, we would have had a general election a long time ago.

MrKingsley

Watching the budget yesterday had me in total agreement with sinn fein for the first time in my life when (cant remember the speakers name) called for a general election. I think its needed.

As a side note sinn fein lost me moments later by declaring that they were the only party with a alternative budget that could succeed

aurelius79

Well, I think we need to forget about partisan politics for a while. Look at the speaker, not the party behind him. I think this country has a number of capable people who are largely ignored because they don't belong to one of the big 3 parties. This cannot continue. Stop looking at the party and start looking for real leaders who will bring the change this country so desperately needs. They are out there, they just need to be given a chance.

fat__tony

Whenever the next general election is, hopefully fianna fail will be in opposition for the next ten years for their incompetence.

However, judging by the majority of idiots who voted them back in during 2007, I wouldn't be suprised one bit if they were in government again.

onedoubleo

aurelius79 wrote: »

We need leaders, not just more politicians and businessmen.

Couldn't agree more, I have lost all faith in those running the country now.

There is no real long term plan in this government, no reform in the many areas where its needed. In particular the political system and construction industry must be overhauled.

Rujib1

aurelius79 wrote: »

Well, I think we need to forget about partisan politics for a while. Look at the speaker, not the party behind him. I think this country has a number of capable people who are largely ignored because they don't belong to one of the big 3 parties. This cannot continue. Stop looking at the party and start looking for real leaders who will bring the change this country so desperately needs. They are out there, they just need to be given a chance.

Care to nominate even one?

I vote for Mick O Leary. Make Lenihan look like Santa Claus:cool:

celticbest

In my opinion this was a far better budget then I could have ever hoped for.

I think the Government are actually standing up for the long term good of the country for a change.

I'm just glad that none of the other parties were in power to give the budget yesterday as not one of them in my opinion came up with a viable alternative to what was delivered.

The one thing I'll agree with aurelius79 on is that Cowen should be removed as quickly as possible.

Queen-Mise

Agree completely. Get this government out.
Still too angry after yesterday to talk calmly :-(

aurelius79

celticbest wrote: »

In my opinion this was a far better budget then I could have ever hoped for.

I think the Government are actually standing up for the long term good of the country for a change.

I'm just glad that none of the other parties were in power to give the budget yesterday as not one of them in my opinion came up with a viable alternative to what was delivered.

The one thing I'll agree with aurelius79 on is that Cowen should be removed as quickly as possible.

Actually, if you look at my thread,

boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055766076

you will see that Lenihan has increased spending in almost all departments except the most important (education and health). Department of Transport is getting an extra 50 mil on top of last year. Office of the Minister for Finance is inexplicably getting an extra 11 mil. This was all taken directly from the receipts and expenditures PDF from budget.gov.ie.

The PDF is:

budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/whitepaperfin2010.pdf

if you care to have a look at actual numbers and not percentages and statistics.

hinault

I would suggest that the body politik is broken.

After the skullduggery uncovered about Haughey, Lowry, Lawlor, Ellis, corrupt country councillors of all hues : public trust and public belief in the political system and political policies, is broken.
For the forseeable future.

The public are apathetic...............if the public were angry perhaps I would be hopeful.
But I sense more apathy than anger.

For the record, I have never voted FF.

onedoubleo

hinault wrote: »

I would suggest that the body politik is broken.

After the skullduggery uncovered about Haughey, Lowry, Lawlor, Ellis, corrupt country councillors of all hues : public trust and public belief in the political system and political policies, is broken.
For the forseeable future.

The public are apathetic...............if the public were angry perhaps I would be hopeful.
But I sense more apathy than anger.

For the record, I have never voted FF.

Apathetic and un-organised

Even if they were angry enough it would be all shouting at each other and not pointing in the right place.

celticbest

aurelius79 wrote: »

Actually, if you look at my thread,

boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055766076

you will see that Lenihan has increased spending in almost all departments except the most important (education and health). Department of Transport is getting an extra 50 mil on top of last year. Office of the Minister for Finance is inexplicably getting an extra 11 mil. This was all taken directly from the receipts and expenditures PDF from budget.gov.ie.

The PDF is:

budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Documents/whitepaperfin2010.pdf

if you care to have a look at actual numbers and not percentages and statistics.

Did you ever think that both Education and Health are just leaking money??

Major savings are being made in the health service through bringing salaries more in line with our European neighbours, let's see how many consultants leave Ireland after there pay cut ..... not to many I would imagine as I don't know of many other countries were they can work both for the State and Privately while using the Public hospitals for both.

Our Education system is under severe pressure through no fault of our own, if we had not had such a huge influx of foreign nationals and there children over the past decade then the education system would be more than adequate. In my local area I have seen two new schools built in the past 2 to 3 years and both are educate together schools which are full of Foreigners.

Again from experience in my local area were many Foreign nationals live the majority do not work and just sponge of the system and this puts a major strain on all areas of Public service budget. How can we resolve this???

aurelius79

You're absolutely right, the education system is leaking money but it's not because of foreigners. It's beacuse we have to fork out millions a year to rent shoddy prefabs from private companies. How much do we spend on textbooks printed by private companies instead of introducing a free books system? We are leaking money because of inaction by our elected officials.

Did you actually look at the info I provided? What the hell are we spending three quarters of a billion in Defense for? And we are spending even more next year. Who are we at war with? An extra 3 billion for Social Services? Lenihan says unemployment is levelling off, is he just lying? About an extra 30 million for courts and prisons but Gardai are taking a cut? 14 million extra for the Central Statistics Office? What would be the justification for that?

johngalway

Leave FF where they are for the duration of their term.

Otherwise...

A different government would have to make even harder choices, five, six years down the line that government would be blamed for the entire mess and FF would be re-elected.

They took enough credit for the boom, let them suffer with the rest of us for the bust.

peasant

celticbest wrote: »

Again from experience in my local area were many Foreign nationals live the majority do not work and just sponge of the system and this puts a major strain on all areas of Public service budget. How can we resolve this???

Payback time! Just move to their country and sponge off their system :rolleyes:


(plus it would save us the anti-forriner-rant)

irish_bob

fat__tony wrote: »

Whenever the next general election is, hopefully fianna fail will be in opposition for the next ten years for their incompetence.

However, judging by the majority of idiots who voted them back in during 2007, I wouldn't be suprised one bit if they were in government again.

were lennehan to take over as taoiseach , i would vote for fianna fail at the next election , my 1st choice would be to see a fine gael overall majority but i dont believe this can happen with enda kenny at the helm and for me , getting fianna fail out is less important than keeping labour out

irish_bob

aurelius79 wrote: »

You're absolutely right, the education system is leaking money but it's not because of foreigners. It's beacuse we have to fork out millions a year to rent shoddy prefabs from private companies. How much do we spend on textbooks printed by private companies instead of introducing a free books system? We are leaking money because of inaction by our elected officials.

Did you actually look at the info I provided? What the hell are we spending three quarters of a billion in Defense for? And we are spending even more next year. Who are we at war with? An extra 3 billion for Social Services? Lenihan says unemployment is levelling off, is he just lying? About an extra 30 million for courts and prisons but Gardai are taking a cut? 14 million extra for the Central Statistics Office? What would be the justification for that?

that and because we have among the highest paid teachers in europe , malfunded not underfunded

Eutow

irish_bob wrote: »

were lenihan to take over as taoiseach , i would vote for fianna fail at the next election , my 1st choice would be to see a fine gael overall majority but i dont believe this can happen with enda kenny at the helm and for me , getting fianna fail out is less important than keeping labour out

I know there is no competent alternative out there, but why would you vote for Fianna Failure? This is the same Lenihan that put together NAMA, and is part of a corrupt, incompetent party, that has helped to bankrupt Ireland. Don't fool yourself into thinking he would fix this country.

aurelius79

And this is exactly the problem with Ireland and other countries. Too many people looking at the party and not the people. There are great leaders in every party but they are ignored by the opposition.

It's time to stop this partisan in-fighting and look at the bigger picture. We need to elect leaders who speak for the people, not just their party. Politics has divided this country since it gained it's "independance" and where has it taken us? One political party should never have so much power at one time. Our only way forward is a government which represents every section of society.

celticbest

aurelius79 wrote: »

How much do we spend on textbooks printed by private companies instead of introducing a free books system?

three quarters of a billion in Defense for? And we are spending even more next year. Who are we at war with? An extra 3 billion for Social Services? Lenihan says unemployment is levelling off, is he just lying? About an extra 30 million for courts and prisons but Gardai are taking a cut? 14 million extra for the Central Statistics Office? What would be the justification for that?

What is a free book scheme and who would pay for the Books, the tax payer??

Every country needs an Army whether your at war or not and Ireland is no different. Look at Sweden, it is also a neutral country but has one of the best equipped armies in the world.

The Social Services bill is increasing because of this years increase in unemployment compared to what was budgeted for originally.

In a recession more crime is committed so the courts will be busier.

The Gardai need to take a pay cut, who else gets paid for unsocial hours while there on holidays and there are many other expenses that they can also claim for. See link below, I wish I had a pension like that

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1966954.html

gandalf

They created the mess now let them take the hard decisions and fix it for the first time.

Then we can vote them out and punish them.

aurelius79

celticbest wrote: »

What is a free book scheme and who would pay for the Books, the tax payer??

And who pays for books right now? A free book scheme would loan out books to children at the beginning of the year and returned in the same condition at the end of the year. Any lost or damaged books would be replaced by the parents.

celticbest wrote: »

Every country needs an Army whether your at war or not and Ireland is no different. Look at Sweden, it is also a neutral country but has one of the best equipped armies in the world.

So one year of cutbacks on military spending during the worst recession in the history of the state wouldn't be a good idea because...?

celticbest wrote: »

The Social Services bill is increasing because of this years increase in unemployment compared to what was budgeted for originally.

But we are told by Lenihan that unemployment is leveling off and the economy is picking up. Once again, is he just lying through his teeth?

celticbest wrote: »

In a recession more crime is committed so the courts will be busier.

Then surely the answer would be to hire more Gardai? No wait, we have part-time volunteers to police our streets now.

celticbest wrote: »

The Gardai need to take a pay cut, who else gets paid for unsocial hours while there on holidays and there are many other expenses that they can also claim for. See link below, I wish I had a pension like that

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1966954.html

If the Gardai needed a pay cut then why wasn't it done years ago. Now we face more crime because of the recession with a disgruntled, ineffective police force. Is there any planning at all in this country or does our government just take it one day at a time?

Tricity Bendix

aurelius79 wrote: »

But we are told by Lenihan that unemployment is leveling off and the economy is picking up. Once again, is he just lying through his teeth?

When Lenihan says unemployment is levelling off, he's talking about the monthly increase in people signing on. But unemployment is definately higher this year than last year.

celticbest

aurelius79 wrote: »

And who pays for books right now? A free book scheme would loan out books to children at the beginning of the year and returned in the same condition at the end of the year. Any lost or damaged books would be replaced by the parents.

You still haven't answered who pays for the books in the first place??

So one year of cutbacks on military spending during the worst recession in the history of the state wouldn't be a good idea because...?

It's vital, if equipment is not replaced and a number of soldiers are killed during a training exercise because of this could you imagine the outcry.

But we are told by Lenihan that unemployment is leveling off and the economy is picking up. Once again, is he just lying through his teeth?

Unemployment is starting to level off over the last few months, the numbers increasing on the dole on a monthly basis are nowhere near as high as this time last year.

Then surely the answer would be to hire more Gardai? No wait, we have part-time volunteers to police our streets now.


If the Gardai needed a pay cut then why wasn't it done years ago. Now we face more crime because of the recession with a disgruntled, ineffective police force. Is there any planning at all in this country or does our government just take it one day at a time?

It's like everything else in this country over the past decade the price of everything increased at a ridiculous rate during the 'goods times', we are now entering a correction period.

Everyone everywhere apart from a lucky few have had to take a pay adjustment over the past year, or even worse actually lost there job.

irish_bob

Eutow wrote: »

I know there is no competent alternative out there, but why would you vote for Fianna Failure? This is the same Lenihan that put together NAMA, and is part of a corrupt, incompetent party, that has helped to bankrupt Ireland. Don't fool yourself into thinking he would fix this country.

the number one priority right now is restoring order to the public finances and cutting public sector pay is an integral part of this , unless we rectify the public finances , we will loose financial independance and outside forces will have no interest in rebuilding the economy , they are like loan sharks who,s only priority is collecting debt , seeing as fine gael cannot form a goverment without labour , thier is no option but to vote fianna fail

jimmycrackcorm

As long as Fine Gael and Labour object to the type of cuts we had in the budget, there is no point calling for a general election as neither party has the guts to take tough measures.

ragg

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

As long as Fine Gael and Labour object to the type of cuts we had in the budget, there is no point calling for a general election as neither party has the guts to take tough measures.

Nail on the head - we are apathetic as there is no alternative. All Gilmore and Kenny do is take the populist line - they have no ideas and have not put forward any kind of coherent alternative.

While I think Cowan is a national embarrassment - I do think Lenihan is a very brave no bull**** politician.

bmaxi

irish_bob wrote: »

were lennehan to take over as taoiseach , i would vote for fianna fail at the next election , my 1st choice would be to see a fine gael overall majority but i dont believe this can happen with enda kenny at the helm and for me , getting fianna fail out is less important than keeping labour out

You reckon Lenihan would make a difference? Even if he wanted to change, which I very much doubt, the cancer is Fianna Fáil and that won't change.
Too many years of living high on the hog on other people's sweat is ingrained in them, with a few exceptions the party has been corrupt since it's inception.

Hillel

aurelius79 wrote: »

We need leaders, not just more politicians and businessmen.

Who do you suggest?

aurelius79

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

As long as Fine Gael and Labour object to the type of cuts we had in the budget, there is no point calling for a general election as neither party has the guts to take tough measures.

It takes guts to take money from the disabled and the unemployed? What are we gonna do, strike? Refuse to take the only income we have?

No, it would take guts to prosecute the corrupt bankers, corporations and politicians that have driven this country into recession. Will that ever happen? Not as long as the businessmen of Fianna Fail are in power.

Have a look at the departments where spending is actually going to increase by almost three and a half billion over last year. 11 million more for the Office of the Minister for Finance next year? What the hell is that for? Fifteen million over last year for the Central Statistics office?